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Altair vs Lavos Redone

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I feel like this could go like this:

> Altair Info Rewrites or Nulls a Lavos

> Lavos from other timeline BFRs her to DBT

> Altair still comes back cuz 2-B Type 1 Abstraction and Conceptually Absorbs Lavos and Becomes Lavos with all his powers and stuff

> Alternate Lavos Comes in with High 2-A Absorption

> Alternate Altair Comes in with High 2-A Absorption for absorbing Lavos conceptually earlier.

GG this drags for Eternity since both now have the same powerset and abilities making this into Lavos vs Lavos O.O
 
If only re creators had in infinite multiverse then altair could beat lavos also congrats SCP 1440 is lossing his tier 7 key in this thread
 
It's cool. She might probably be revised again in the future once the Light Novels are translated and if any side story manga/ln/ova is released xD
 
It's not 2-B Teleportation/Dimensional Travel that's being talked in here. But rather her Abstraction that is present on a scale of 2-B. So even if you kill her or incap her or anything in the Universe, she can pull off a similar thing like Lavos and come back to the Universe from alternate Universes via her Abstraction being perceived on a 2-B scale.
 
Inconclusive for the reasons above
 
For the heck of it, I'll copy-paste Fate's response in the last thread. It's a bit passive aggressive tho.

FateAlbane said:
Causality Manip against acausality. Legit.

Also this is the most obvious thread in existence because spam never ends.

Anyways I do believe this is stomp. Not even kidding.

Causality hax is useless due to acausality.

Messing up with one Lavos doesn't matter jack to acausal alternates coming along. Have fun.

And existence erasure is moot as well due to her opponent not only having Mid-Godly but being non existent as well.

Most of her other options are moot.

Also from what I know she's baseline Low 2-C while this Lavos starts at "way higher than baseline Low 2-C and and constantly goes up from there, being anywhere between way higher than Baseline Low 2-C and 2-A".

Not seeing how Altair has anything on this one.
Click to expand...
FateAlbane said:
Forgot to say but on top of all that she's massively outclassed in Range as well (Universal+ vs Multiversal+). Lavos has Power Mimicry of his own and like I mentioned above, Lavos is acausal. Doing whatever to the powers of one won't matter to the acausal alternates that will be coming along.

And I'm not sure on her making perfect copies over and over of a being that outclasses her on basically everything, lest we get "Altair can create copies of Elder God Demonbane".
Click to expand...
 
The last thread was completely outdated because Altair wasn't even revised properly and lacked more than half the stuffs you see on her profile now. She'd have been stomped by now like the last time if the revisions never happened.
 
@Cal

So, to Fate's response: EE isn't an argument so yeah, idk who brought that up.

Altair's AP is mathematically undefined in addition to being at least Low 2-C. I'm genuinely not sure where that lands, but it sure ain't baseline, especially since she creates universes by just playing her violin.

That range is outdated, but Lavos does have the range advantage. Still, the match doesn't start with Lavos being infinite universes away.

Of course she can't copy EGD, but it stands it reason that copying should work on beings of her dimensional scale.

As for my arguments as to how she can possibly win this...

The Sixty-Sixth Movement, if I'm not missing anything, is an instawin. It isn't exactly in character, but it's an option if she feels cornered. The Twentieth Movement should work on Lavos, which will summon a Lavos of her own to fight against him. While most of her attacks wouldn't do to much to Lavos thanks to Type 3 Acausality, she does have her own causality manipulation on a level that Lavos won't be able to properly counter. The Fourteenth Movement will turn around any attack that could threaten Altair, so if he tries to BFR her and she realizes it is a threat she'll just turn it on Lavos instead. It won't really do anything to Lavos, but it won't effectively beat her.
 
The real cal howard said:
66th is existence erasure if the profile is anything to go by.
Click to expand...
it is conceptual absorbtion existance erasure is just a byproduct of it
 
It overwrites your entire concept, negs Mid-Godly, makes it so that only the user is the only being to survive as the target conceptually and now with all it's powers and abilities
 
The real cal howard said:
66th is existence erasure if the profile is anything to go by.
Click to expand...
If it indicates that I am sorry, but it is absolutely not existence erasure. It is a complete existence absorption. It overwrites everything about the target and essentially devours and "becomes" their existence. It doesn't just erase the target, it swallows it by unmaking and becoming what it once was.
 
Okay...I didn't want to be "that guy" but...I gotta play devil's advocate..(Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who isn't a very knowledgable on either character....just looking at the profiles.)

1) Has the twentieth movement been shown to work on someone as powerful and with as many abilities as Lavos?

2) I don't know much about Lavos, but just looking at his profile....why wouldn't his power mimcry work on Altair, if her's would work on him?

3) I mean, looking at Lavos's abilities....why couldn't he power null altair? I mean...he can nullify resistance...

4) Altair cannot resist mind manipulation...but the question is, how likely is Lavos to use that?

5) Then...based on it's profile, Lavos can negate abilities pertaining to itself...

I'll come back later...both profiles are like reading a short novel or something...
 
@Yung

1. No, she never used it on another Low 2-C. However, even if she did make a copy and it popped out at a Low 7-C or something she can just Power Bestow it up to her level. When it comes to abilities, why would ability count be a problem? Number of abilities has never been a stopping point for Altair.

2. That's probably why it's incon. They just take each other's stuff.

3. I don't know what ability Null is attributed to, but Altair does have her own Power Null that ignores base Power Null resistance.

4. Yeah this is a stopping point, but yeah, idk why Lavos would go for that with all his other stuff.

5. Base Power Null is resisted by Altair. You need to be able to bypass basic power null resistance to get to her.
 
It's not even base power null tbh. Altair was casually resisting The Real World's attempts to Nullify her. She then got nulled by Selesia's Power Null and even then she broke out of it. Even after that she got finally nulled by Sirius which goes to show that 66th's Pnull > Selesia's null > Null coming from Low 2-C
 
@Assalt

1. Number of abilities matters because copying 2-3 abilities as opposed to 60 is a completely different situation....At least in my opinion, although I guess most of the community kinda doesn't look too closely at that.

But I see...this probably is inconclusive, but I'll still hold my vote for now.
 
@Lancer

Null from a Low 2-C is a bit too much imo. Just because it's the universe's null doesn't mean it is inherently on par with a Universe+ character.
 
Number of Abilities isn't a factor here because she's Copying the Plot itself. What matters is that a) if you're a higher D being, b) if you're vastly powerful than her, c) If you have a high resistance to Power Mimic
 
Assaltwaffle said:
@Lancer

Null from a Low 2-C is a bit too much imo. Just because it's the universe's null doesn't mean it is inherently on par with a Universe+ character.
Click to expand...
I mean it's a side effect of the Laws of the Universe. The entire Universe wants to shut down her but yet, she walked right through it. IIRC Rimuru too has a similar thing with Mind Manip for resisting the world's powers.
 
I really think this "plot" ability stuff goes a little too far sometimes...One day I'll make a thread to discuss it.
 
@Yung

Well it's not exactly "lolplot", it's more like "I bring my target into existence as an exact copy of any character I can understand". Altair can understand Lavos' existence and power in all likelihood since he isn't higher-D and she has an absolute crapton of powers, most of which she hasn't even displayed. She has been able to identify and understand powers she hadn't seen before, so I doubt Lavos is immune.
 
I mean, to be fair, Lavos is an eldritch being. It might be a wee bit harder to understand. Plus he kinda...mindscrews anyone who tries to use his power...unfailingly...
 
So maybe copying isn't the best option (or even possible if Altair can't understand him). Still, she does have other ways of winning, as does Lavos. Hence, I'm staying on a solid inconclusive.
 
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