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Othinius vs Heaven's Ascension Dio

Well, Full Magic God Othinus has her speed rated as "Unknow"...

So i will give this Vs to DIO.

Unlimited Time Stop...Plus Reality Overwrite that thing is capable of overwritten the abilities like Giorno's GER.

So Gungnir, doesn't seem to effective here.
 
Othinus seems to have better hax, attack speed and durability, while they both have the same AP and level of regen. I think I'll go with Othinus.
 
KamiYasha said:
Well, Full Magic God Othinus has her speed rated as "Unknow"...
So i will give this Vs to DIO.

Unlimited Time Stop...Plus Reality Overwrite that thing is capable of overwritten the abilities like Giorno's GER.

So Gungnir, doesn't seem to effective here.
Click to expand...
True, but I would probably place her at omnipresent considering she does seem to dissapear and reappear at will. The reason why Touma was able to hit her is because she basically let him do it. There was no reason for her to even let him come close to her.
 
Aurasuke said:
True, but I would probably place her at omnipresent considering she does seem to dissapear and reappear at will. The reason why Touma was able to hit her is because she basically let him do it. There was no reason for her to even let him come close to her.
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Since when is that proof for omnipresence?
 
Dio is FTL+, Othinus is FTL+ at 50%. 100% Othinus should be way faster if not imensurable

Reality overwrite needs Dio to touch the oponent and i don't think time stop would work on her
 
DontTalk said:
Aurasuke said:
True, but I would probably place her at omnipresent considering she does seem to dissapear and reappear at will. The reason why Touma was able to hit her is because she basically let him do it. There was no reason for her to even let him come close to her.
Click to expand...
Since when is that proof for omnipresence?
Click to expand...
It's different from teleportation because teleporters in Index cannot simply dissapear completely, they have a set range. Othinius seemed to be able to know every one of Touma's actions even without being present for it.

True it's not explicit but not many authors really use words such as omnipresent especially in translations.
 
Aurasuke said:
It's different from teleportation because teleporters in Index cannot simply dissapear completely, they have a set range. Othinius seemed to be able to know every one of Touma's actions even without being present for it.

True it's not explicit but not many authors really use words such as omnipresent especially in translations.
Click to expand...
Could be teleportation. Not all teleportation has to work the same, especially considering she can make it work however she likes given that she is a magic god.

And her knowing his actions could come from a wide range of abilities. Given what she can do we know she has an arbitary amount of options to do that without being omnipresent.

So without actual proof this is not considered.
 
Even though it may not have been omnipresent, the concept of distance or anything for that matter didn't really seem to apply to her.
 
She destroyed time and space, and was pretty much fine in a place of absolute nothing except herself and Touma Kamijou the main character who is apparently indestructible (lol read index if you want to find out why).
 
KamiYasha said:
Gabriel 00 said:
i don't think time stop would work on her
Click to expand...
Proof?
Click to expand...
She can also control time, she stopped it for everyone but Touma and her to taunt him just before one of his deaths and she's described as being able to turn back time to create the result she wants if she's dissatisfied with how things are going.
 
Aurasuke said:
It's different from teleportation because teleporters in Index cannot simply dissapear completely, they have a set range. Othinius seemed to be able to know every one of Touma's actions even without being present for it.
Click to expand...
she isnt omnipresent, she wasnt able to see the misaka-will destroying her plans to let touma commit suicide...

for the thread: i go with dio :)
 
GreatestSin said:
Aurasuke said:
It's different from teleportation because teleporters in Index cannot simply dissapear completely, they have a set range. Othinius seemed to be able to know every one of Touma's actions even without being present for it.
Click to expand...
she isnt omnipresent, she wasnt able to see the misaka-will destroying her plans to let touma commit suicide...
for the thread: i go with dio :)
Click to expand...
Maybe she was so sure of her victory she didn't even bother. Maybe she just couldn't see the Misaka network because it was beyond life and death.


Also reasoning? for choosing Dio?
 
Apparently Othinius has an upgrade in attack speed.

If I'm counting correctly 3 Othinius 2 for Dio so far.
 
Aurasuke said:
Maybe she was so sure of her victory she didn't even bother. Maybe she just couldn't see the Misaka network because it was beyond life and death.


Also reasoning? for choosing Dio?
Click to expand...
i thought about this too but than i remembered, why should she not interefere? her goal was to let touma kill himself, sounds silly to assume she lets the Will save him and give him enough courage to fight again :I as for life and death: The Will itself yes, but the body that is controlled by the will is clealry living :)

for reasons: Dio is immune to time-space manipulation, he can travel into other parrallel worlds and with Tusk 4 even attack between dimensions, heaven-dio-GER nullifies all attacks and actions, can also overwrite reality and manipulate souls :) imo dio is to high on defense and also has powerful offense attacks ^_^
 
The Will itself yes, but the body that is controlled by the will is clealry living :)

^Not quite, the reason Touma lived is because he's the main character. He'll take any reason as long as it helps him survive. and No the will is above the Misaka network and the clones including last order.

The multiverse tusk act 4 was already stated to be a false intepretation by DarkLK. If you can convince him first then you can convince me.
 
^touma was immune to mindf*ck because if IB not only because he was the MC (the surviving of the million-hell-years was because of that :) ), either way, i already agreed that the Will itself is something different than living or death but she needs to control a clone in order to do something, and the body of the clone is alive ^_^

how was it a false intepretation? i have read speed run as well and it looked like the infinite spin is able to travel between universes, D4C was unable to stop it no matter how many times valentine switched his body :/ tusk 4 also "ripped open" the dimensional barrier in which valentine was :)
 
I believe our current standing on tusk 4 is this?

Anyway, I would much appreciate it if vs discussion are done on the basis of accepted stats.

If you think something is wrong with them make a content revision thread. After that is concluded you can always rediscuss the battle.

(well, make a thread if it is about stats. Not necessarily when it comes to the nature of the abilities, but from what I see here the discussion would be stats relevant)
 
GreatestSin said:
^touma was immune to mindf*ck because if IB not only because he was the MC (the surviving of the million-hell-years was because of that :) ), either way, i already agreed that the Will itself is something different than living or death but she needs to control a clone in order to do something, and the body of the clone is alive ^_^
how was it a false intepretation? i have read speed run as well and it looked like the infinite spin is able to travel between universes, D4C was unable to stop it no matter how many times valentine switched his body :/ tusk 4 also "ripped open" the dimensional barrier in which valentine was :)
Click to expand...
No lol Othinius killed Touma over and over again, nothing to do with IB, IB is nothing to Othinius, Othinius in the end chose to surrender her God powers and return everything to how it was before. She chose to lose .

Also I agree with DontTalk, it's already been stated that his Tusk 4 is limited to 3-A tier. See the link and refrain from making statements that disagree with our current profiles unless you can somehow get them changed.
 
^did i ever say touma couldnt be killed by othinus becaus of IB?

he died million times, what i mean is that the easiest solution of "wiping him out of existence" and "controlling his mind to let him kill himself" couldnt be used by her thanks to IB, of course she was able to kill him, but touma wasnt solely alive thanks to "being MC", IB acted as a excuse for the reason why othinus left touma unaffected :)

btw, i never talked about tiers, (i dont really get them either) but the thing of "hitting between dimensions" still exist even if not "shooting with the power of infinite universes" (i never argued about this btw), afterall tusk4 "opened" the dimensional barrier, still, the horse-part was forgotten by me, sorry, is not so easy to use it then ^_^
 
Othinius wanted to break Touma's Spirit not kill him, she could have easily done that. Don't see how a 3-A attack can touch Othinius
 
Aurasuke said:
Othinius didn't want to kill Touma
Click to expand...
? he wasnt caring at all about him, what she needed to do was to let touma kill himself, maybe because than she could transfer IB into a bottle or so, at least this is what i understood from her :( either way, it seems like she required him to kill himself and not get forcibly killed by someone else :/
 
^ No, the explanation was that Imagine Breaker may end up transfering to someone else if Touma ended up permanently dying. But things would be fine if Touma killed himself or something. Or maybe not even then, but as far as I know Othinius never had any interestin IB or Othinius.

She wanted to create her original world. What that means is that Othinius was a Magic God at full power before but for some reason abandoned her power. Magic Gods are beings who can shape reality like clay. However if you think about it artists still need a reference point to turn the world back to it's original state. Imagine breaker was that reference point so it represents the wishes of magicians. What Othinius wanted was to recreate the world that she was original from as the world of index is not actually the original world, or rather the first world ever made. It means that at some point before Index began, Othinius was already a god but abandoned her power for some reason.

When Othinius became a God again, no matter how hard she tried, she couldn't get the details of the first world 100% accurate. What that means is that she couldn't make a world that was 100% perfect and identicial to the original world. She couldn't really care less about Touma at that time. But for some reasom Touma's main character status was so over powered that he convinced her to stop looking for her original world or attempting to recreate it and go back to the world that Touma knew. In other words Touma's strongest power is plot armor which would allow him to win infinite games or russian roulette
 
^lol, you are sounding as clueless as i do XD

i know her backstory :)

yeah, and i never argued about toumas victory, i only made the point that the obiovusly easiest solution wasnt present for othinus because IB interefered with the "wipe out of existence", "manipulate as i please" and "mindf*ck", she was able to do it for everyone else (except for the people who are even more hax :I ), at least there was a in-story explanation for that, therefore it wasnt solely "being MC"/"due to plot" which made touma survive the life-wiping ^_^

But for some reasom Touma's main character status was so over powered that he convinced her to stop looking for her original world or attempting to recreate it and go back to the world that Touma knew.

he used TnJ on her and since he is the MC she never stood a chance once she listened to his babbling XD

but we should stop, it gets off-topic :)
 
DontTalk said:
I believe our current standing on tusk 4 is this?
Anyway, I would much appreciate it if vs discussion are done on the basis of accepted stats.

If you think something is wrong with them make a content revision thread. After that is concluded you can always rediscuss the battle.

(well, make a thread if it is about stats. Not necessarily when it comes to the nature of the abilities, but from what I see here the discussion would be stats relevant)
Click to expand...
Yeah, anyway, this though is what DontTalk said. I believe Crossover knows everything about JoJo, and DarkLK seems pretty knowledgeable so I'll take their word for it. As for me, I only seen up to act II.

BTW how much of index have you read greatest?
 
^above volume 9 or so, than i found other novels which are (in my opninion) better written/explained (Tokyo Raven has really good magic system that isnt uselessly complicated like mahouka and not a so-so-thing that -even if explained- feel like no real explanation at all like index) ^_^ it was good up to some point i think, than i lost interest :/
 
That is all completly off topic, but about the question of Othinus and imagine breaker.

Othinus has not much of a problem overwriting imagine breaker or mind controling Touma if she wants to. The actual reason for the whole battle isn't that imagine breaker would remanifest. That this is a problem was most likely a lie from othinus, I would believe.

Read NT Volume 9 chapter 8 part 5 again. The whole fight between Touma and othinus is not a fight between them, but an internal conflict from othinus about which hope she should choose. Moving on the the next world, trying to create a replica from her world, which in the end is still a fake or using IB in order to return to her original world, even through trying to do so has in the past already failed. It is really an internal conflict. Logically othinus believes she has to move on to the next world creating a replica, while emotionally she wishes to use imagine braker to return to the original world, even through it seems as if it will not work.

So the thing is by no means that othinus couldn't just completly overwrite and ignore IB if she wants to. The thing just is that she doesn't want to. Mind controling Touma would be equal to premanently killing him. It would end the discussion, the internal conflict and by that force a decision. The only reason she doesn't do that is because she isn't emotinally ready to do so.
 
^ Sounds like more or less what I believed as well. I've only read New Testament 9 once lol, so perhaps I missed some of the details.

I agree with that though, what seems strange is that High Priest wanted Touma as his scorer, though Imagine Breaker wasn't the reason. Touma could have become tier low 2-c lol but he chose not to and remained human. It makes sense from a story perspective because if Touma accepted High Priest's offer, index would most likely not be as great as it is. He also rejected Othinius's salvation for more or less selfish reasons so accepting High Priest would make things inconsistent.
 
^^i didnt get this feeling but if you interpret the story as such than ok, as for IB, didnt othinus mention that he survived because of it (or so) at the very beginning of NT9? and it doesnt really make sense for her to actually chose touma out of all people if she was "unsure" what to do after obtaining 100% :/

either way, this gets off-topic, my vote still goes to Dio ^_^
 
^ Not really, Touma would have died by a simple bulelt ot the head, imagine breaker wasn't what was keeping him alive, Othinius just wasn't ready to kill him/control him

Okay then, got it, basically because Dio can stop a 3-A attack you chose him. Very well I'll make a tally anyways
 
Aurasuke said:
^ Not really, Touma would have died by a simple bulelt ot the head, imagine breaker wasn't what was keeping him alive, Othinius just wasn't ready to kill him/control him
Okay then, got it, basically because Dio can stop a 3-A attack you chose him. Very well I'll make a tally anyways
Click to expand...
i never said IB was the only thing keeping him alive, it didnt, it served as reason for othinus to not simply blow him up and be done with it in a single second, and the reason why i actually started this whole thing was because of the post of yours which said that he only survived thanks to his "being MC" ^_^ it should have been a quirck nitpicking :(

and because he can overwrite reality as he pleases ^_^
 
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