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Shadow of Mordor/War: Revision

QrowBarr

QrowBarr

They/Them
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The SoM pages haven't been touch for awhile. and nobdoy seems to up making a CTR so I guess i'll do it. It's not very long. Talio (the main character) is missing at least 3 abilities and his second key will be replaced with At least 8-A

Talion's Abilities
Empathic Manipulation: I don't know why this was rejected, Talion can "enrage" nearby allies, making them more ferocious and bloodthirsy in combat. It's not through mind manipulation.

Mind Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, and Statistics Reduction: I know Talion already has mind manip but because their all connected together I have to include it. "Shaming" is ability an ability where Talion would attempt to break the mind of his target, and drain them of their will and weaken them.(At 1:09:34 if link doesn't work)

AP
Talion's Post-Ressurection key will be replaced with 8-A via this calc

Zanybrainy2000 and Mr. Bambu gave a thumbs up so I guess this should be fine to add.

Conclusion
Abilities: Empathic Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Statistics Reduction

AP: Talion's Post-Ressurection Key, Graugs, Torvi and High-leveled Uruks will be 8-A

Any input in here will be appreciated.
 
Will Caragors, Torvin, and High level Uruks like Captain and Warchief get upgraded to 8-A too?
 
Anybody that scales to him yes.
 
Torvin yes.

The Caragors honestly shouldn't scale from the Graugs at all. They only do minimal damage, and it takes a whole pack only to stand a chance. Only a Dire Caragor is strong enough to face a Graug

The Uruks that are currently High 8-C can be 8-A.
 
Alright then. I suppose those who is currently Building level+ will stay as they are?
 
Hmm curiously do we know how large Mordor is? (I ask this since the forging of the New Ring shook Mordor as confirmed on several occasions)
 
Eh, might turn this into a general revision thread.

I never found the "damaging stone towers" feat for the regular Uruks, which could easily be 9-B.

Damaging war machines, assuming that it refers to the Bright Lord campaign, is done by throwing torches at them. That's not 9-A.

They should be 9-C.

Captains are resistant enough to survive point blank explosions, they should be 9-B (same for Caragors/Caragaths)

Lore wise, the "Nemesis" is not a thing. It shouldn't be on the page.

Talion's pre-resurrection key is useless. He doesn't do anything in that key. Literally the most relevant thing that he does is being killed
 
They damage the Haedir towers in the Bright Lord campaign, i'll post the scan here if I find it.
 
I mean, Pre-Resurrection Talion fought at the black gate, killing some fodder uruks for a while.
 
@Steven

Ah ok. That would be 9-B i believe.

They are slowly destroying it over time, not collapsing entire sections of it with a single attack (If it's the mission that i'm thinking about)

@DD

I mean yeah. But we really don't know anything about him except that he is a dude who kills Uruks. For the entire game, you play as Post-Resurrection Talion
 
Also they dont just set the war machines a blaze, they hurl axes and jagged spears to it, and it only takes a few minutes for them to destroy it.

One of those said war machines are trebuchets, which we rate it here as At most 9-B in terms of durability.
 
Yes but destroying a war machine over a few minutes, in a group no less, isn't 9-A.
 
Those are the normal uruks, what about the captains?
 
Hmm so 9-C fodder Uruks and 9-B captains with certain examples (Zog) being higher?

I'm fine with the Nemesis page staying since it's more a fun hypothetical experiment for how powerful a composition of all the Nemesis system can do but I'll defer to the general consesnsus on this.
 
While we're at it, where does the 7-A rating for Talion and the other come from btw? The only thing I found is from Black Hand's profile (strong enough to affect the entirety of Mordor and create storms across it) is there a 7-A calc for it or something?
 
The guy who made the SoM profiles is Legion350, i'll ask him
 
Anyway, should everything here in this thread will be added?
 
No I think they assumed with the thunderstorm (Personally I feel it'd be a good choice to actually calc i somehow). Also why are the Tower and Hammer on par with the Hand? I mean the Hand is the strongest Black Captain as stated in the lore and he's the only one involved in the storm (Hell The Hammer was killed by an early game Talon and the Tower was absolutely slam dunked by the guy at the end of the game)
 
The Black Hand should be 6-B because he is a weakened Sauron, who is > Witch King.

Normally i'd avoid cross scaling, but the events of the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion are canon to Som/Sow, so Sauron is equally strong.

Even the fall of N├║menor is something that actually happened.
 
Hmm I'm not sure on corss scaling due to the several discrepancies here (Helm Hammerhand being a Nazgul despite living and dying before they first appeared as well as Celebrimbor)

Either way I'd argue against it since you said he was weakened and the Nazgul's power relies upon that of Sauron if memory serves (I mean Gandalf fought the lot of them and when empowered Witch King stalemated Gandalf)
 
I asked Mr. Bambu to calc the thunderstorm, so we'll have to wait for a response.

I agree with Hellbeast, Nothing implicates that the black captains are comparable to the Black Hand, in fact they directly anwer to him and obey him.
 
@Hellbeast

Yes, but the point is that the fall and creation of Numenor, which is the 6-B feat of canon Sauron, is something that actually happened in the lore of SoM/SoW.

I'm not saying that Sauron is exactly the same, but he does scale from the same feat because it's directly referenced.

We see in SoW that the Nazgul are his servants and he should logically scale above them. Plus he battled Celebrimbor with the New Ring which is = the One Ring
 
I dunno. They don't scale from the Black Hand, that's for sure, but i don't remember if they have good feats themselves
 
Maybe 8-A+, like far higher? They fought on par with Talion, but should potentially be much higher due to their position in the hierachy of Sauron's Army.
 
Still it's a completely separate timeline as stated by the creators of the series.

Also the Nazgul point I'm less sure on considering my above reasoning.
 
@Steven

At least 8-A, likely higher i'd say

@Hellbeast

Yes. Which is why i'm not saying that Sauron is exactly the same.

I'm saying that Sauron has the same feat, because it's directly referenced. For example, i'm not arguing for High Hypersonic Talion scaling from canon Sauron, because that feat isn't referenced in SoM

SoM! Sauron is 6-B because the 6-B feat happened in SoM.
 
About the Nazgul thing, Eltariel defeated Ringwraith Talion,who defeated the Witch King.

Eltariel lost to Sauron.

So Sauron > Eltariel > Talion > Witch King
 
In case you didn't know but...

Eltariel was beaten by Talion prolouge in the DLC and could've finished her off before snapping out from the Ring's corrupting influence.
 
Yeah, it's weird. She does fight on par with EoG Talion tho.

She also kinda has the New Ring when she fights against Sauron, so she definitely wouldn't be too far behind

My point is that Witch King >>>>> Sauron isn't a thing in SoM
 
And another thing.

In Shelob's future-vision, Talion would've beaten and dominated Sauron and rule all of Middle-Earth if he had not opposed Celebrimbor's idea of dominating him.
 
So are the upgrade going through? We just have to wait for that thunderstorm calc.
 
I mean, i doubt that it would be 6-B (Unless there is still someone who thinks that 6-B isn't legit) and it's the Black Hand's feat, so it doesn't really scale to anyone

I agree with the addition of the powers in the OP btw
 
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