Shadow of Mordor/War: Revision

[QrowBarr]

His High 7-A key should be re-worked since we've established that

Sauron >> Witch King

 

[QrowBarr]

Anyway, the calc is done 7-A for both ends

 

[QrowBarr]

Is there any other issues, can this be added?

 

[Kaltias]

Basically BoG SoM Talion -> 8-A scaling from Graugs

EoG -> 7-A scaling from the Black Hand

SoW EoG -> 6-B scaling from Sauron

Why he has a "Bright Lord" key? That's Celebrimbor, not Talion

Pre-Resurrection key should go.

Fodder Uruk, Captains, Caragors, Caragath -> 9-B

Graugs and Uruks who scale -> 8-A

The Hammer and the Tower -> At least 8-A, likely higher

I still think that the Nemesis key should go

 

[QrowBarr]

I agree with this.

 

[QrowBarr]

But I feel like the Nemesis key should stay though, the same reason with Hellbeast but also the fact that having a nemesis is a thing both in SoM and SoW.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, it could be fine, but i'm really uncertain about scaling from EoG Talion.

I'd say "At least 8-A, likely higher" scaling upwards from the other Uruks

Also because otherwise Nemesis >>>>> Black Captains

 

[QrowBarr]

Sounds fine.

 

[QrowBarr]

Also how should we rate Carnan? Because she was able to fight on par with a Balrog.

 

[Kaltias]

I'd say 7-A. Talion already had the New Ring, which iirc contains the power of his SoM EoG self.

Granted they also fight Sauron with that, so you could argue for 6-B as well, but i'm uncertain

 

[QrowBarr]

7-A, likely 6-B? Her AP would vary in her different forms but in her true form, she casually overpowered Talion by the end of their fight, and Celebrimbor said they should not mess with her.

 

[Kaltias]

I'd say "7-A, possibly 6-B" to stay on the safe side

 

[QrowBarr]

Ok, are the uprgrades safe to add or do we need more people to give their input?

 

[Kaltias]

Wait until tomorrow to see if someone has disagreements, if not, you can implement them

 

[QrowBarr]

Ok

 

[QrowBarr]

Hmm, so far nobody has commented here yet.

 

[QrowBarr]

This should be safe to add now, but someone needs to unlock Talion and Torvin's pages.

 

[QrowBarr]

I've added the results, can somebody unlock both Talion and Torvin's page?

 

[Kaltias]

Done

 

[Kaltias]

So about Talion's abilities:

- Willpower Manipulation and Statistics Reduction are SoW only

- Soul Manipulation, assuming that it's is summoning as the RingWraith is also SoW only.

Same for basically everything after Ice Manipulation actually (excluding Fire Manipulation because he has fire arrows in SoM)

 

[QrowBarr]

Seems alright.

 

[Hellbeast1]

He should also have Explosion Manipulation for obvious reasons

 

[Kaltias]

Yeah. And mind hax resistance

 

[QrowBarr]

Does this count as fear manipulation?

Because this appareantly kill stunned enemies and make others flee in terror

 

[Kaltias]

Yes

 

[QrowBarr]

Ok

 

[QrowBarr]

Minor Resistance to Soul Manipulation for Celebrimbor?

He tanked blows from Sauron and momentarily resisted Black Hand's soulhax.

 

[Hellbeast1]

On the subject of the above should Sauron have a key for SOM?

 

[QrowBarr]

Why not make a page for him?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Hmm good point (Just felt it'd be better as a key)

 

[QrowBarr]

Back to my question, should he have minor resistance to SM?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Yep

 

[QrowBarr]

I feel like it should be straight up resistance.

Even after being absorbed by Sauron, he's still able to hold him back for straight up decades.

 

[Kaltias]

I'm fine with however you guys want to call it.

He doesn't resist being absorbed, but he does a fairly good job at not being overwhelmed completely at least

 

[Sabriae]

So how is Talion getting a multi city block AP from his fight with the legendary Graug? He makes at minimum dozens of attacks, possibly into the hundreds, against it, primarily after it stuns itself after running head first into a massive rock. Not only that, but most of those attacks are made against the heels, which we know from Torvin are much more vulnerable than the rest of the Graug. He does not do multi city block levels of damage in a single attack in that battle, he spams much weaker attacks against vulnerable parts of the Graug until it finally catches him, and then Torvin jumps in, saves him, and kills it. For most of the fight direct attacks don't do any damage at all, it has to be either stunned (so Talion can hit the heels), or requires Talion to literally be throwing his whole body into the attack.

 

[Kaltias]

Actually Taiion is 8-A scaling from the hammer, who scales above commanders, who can kill Graugs, who have a 8-A feat

 

[Sabriae]

I'm fine with him being 8-A, the guy's slaughters half of Mordor and enslaves the other half. It's specifically his AP that I'm asking about. Neither Talion nor any of the Captains can do enough damage in a single attack against a Graug (in Shadow of Mordor, I haven't played Shadow of War) to justify a multi city block attack power. They can hurt them, and kill them eventually, but even monster slayers at 20 won't one-shot a Graug. Multi city block dura definitely works, since even without health upgrades Talion and mid level captains can take a direct hit from a Graug and keep going, but nothing in the game takes as much of his health in one hit as a Graug. For that matter, I'm pretty sure the Hammer hits harder than Talion does, Talion wins through mobility and by knowing some combat tactics beyond "charge and swing".

 

[Kaltias]

You don't need to one shot someone to scale. You only need to harm them.

 

[QrowBarr]

Monster Slayers can one-shot Graugs though.

 

[Sabriae]

I've never seen one do it, but I'll take your word for it. Obviously my monster slayers have been wimps. They do one shot Caragors, usually while I'm riding them. They then fail to kill me, because despite the mind control, resurrection, sucking the life out of things, brutalize murders and so on, Talion is still not considered a monster.

As for scaling from just harming, not quite. I can take a sledgehammer and knock down a house, doesn't give me building level AP. The number of attacks required to do significant damage does count, and dozens of hits from Talion just doesn't seem like it should have him in multi city block range.