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About Sailor Moon

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Lancer45Man

Lancer45Man

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So I noticed a few Things regarding the Profiles that seem wrong.

Sailor Moo
1) Post-Serenity Sailor Senshis having 1.45 Quintillion xSoL : While this may look okay, however the feat is not valid. Why isn't it valid? Simple, Usagi never actually Reacts or anything unless you count getting empowered by someone is a reaction feat. Neo-Queen Serenity only empowers her/boosts her up from Earth while Usagi receives the boost. Also, at the same time the light reaches Wiseman's realm at the end of Space-Time which is an Immeasurable speed feat which defeats the calc of 1.45 Quintillion xSoL

2) Time-Rewinding: Idk why it was given when Usagi showed no Time Rewind. If this is because of her Restoring Earth after Pharaoh 90's invasion, then it should be Reality Warping rather than Time Rewinding as there's no statements for her Time Rewinding but there's feats of her pulling the same stuff using Reality Warping so by Occam's Razor, it should be Reality Warping rather than Time Rewinding

3) Resistance to Probability Manipulation: No. This was was added for idk what reason and if it's for Queen Nehelinia's curse, then no. Queen Nehelinia manipulates Fate not Probability, and even then Usagi never resisted any curse from her but instead she was affected by it in her previous life and her mother had to change her Fate so that she can be born on Earth.

4) Space-Time Breaking: For what exactly???

5) Neo Queen Serenity: She herself stated that she lost most of her powers and also she couldn't even destroy Death Phantom so idk why is she being Kept at Uni+ and stated to have all Abilities of Sailor Moon when it's the complete opposite???

6) Redundant Abilities: You can clearly see that there's a bunch of same Abilities repeatedly given which serves no merit and there's Abilities like "Lunar Manipulation" which has no clear application or justification for use. Same with Sailor Cosmos's page.

7) Conceptual Manipulation: Reasons for Conceptual Manipulation???

Sailor Senshis
1) Sailor Saturn's Mid-Godly: It should be Inapplicable for Combat as i) She had to be invoked using the Three Talismans after Hotaru was erased and ii) She had to be reincarnated as a baby after being erased along with Pharaoh 90 and his Tau Nebula

2) Sailor Saturn's Can reset a being and the evolution of the same to zero: Can someone explain why this was added when Hotaru never displayed that feat to my knowledge?

3) Intangibility: Why though??? What gives them Intangibility in their Lambda forms???

I didn't go through every single Sailor Senshi Profiles so I can't comment on all of them

Chaos
1) Abstract Existence: I believe it comes from These Two Scans as per this thread . However, Chaos was never stated to be saying any such things as him being the Concept of Evil or Darkness or as long as he exists, Evil exists too. What he was refferring to is that he is the Manifestation of Darkness, an Aspect of it for which he definitely gets Type 8 Immortality but not Abstract Existence. Moreover, he was referring to his Spawns Queen Metalia, Death Phantom, Pharaoh 90, and Queen Nehellenia as the Sources of Evil as they were the ones to be the root cause of evil incidents all throughout the Timeline.

2) Non-Existent Physiology: This also comes from These Two Scans . Cool Beans but it's not even close as in Chapter 60 Guardian Cosmos point out the fact that Chaos has a Sailor Seed as well as Guardian Chaos. So this completely debunks Non-Existent Chaos. Also, if People want to bring the "Galaxia can rip out Star Seeds but still couldn't affect Chaos" argument, then there's two things. i) Galaxia was never Shown to attack or affect Chaos as she served under him. ii) Even if Galaxia cannot affect him, doesn't make him Non-Existent. It just means he has resistance to her Star Seed Ripping hax. It's like saying HA Dio is Acausal for Lolnoping GER's Causality Manipulation. Also, funny thing is that Sailor Chaos, a future stronger reincarnated version of Chaos, is stated to have Star Seed in the profile but somehow Chaos has no Star Seed even tho he was stated to possess his Star Seed by Guardian Cosmos herself and it was faded away/erased by Galaxy Cauldron.

3) Chaos Passive Haxes: I've read some debates where Chaos was stated to have Passive Spawn Hax. Cool but his Spawns having passive Hax doesn't equate to him having the same Haxes as Passive Abilities for him especially when he hasn't shown to display any such thing in the entire Manga.

TL;DR
A lot of the stuffs are Wrong and these should be changed
 
Wait for Dodon to come back since he's focusing in IRL this month. You can contacting Scarlet too about this.

Looks like you're wanna downplay Sailor Moon further,eh~? ovo
 
I'm not downplaying considering I agree with many things as well as their Tiering. I'm just saying that these things are not even accurate and are wrong as I've read the manga Twice.
 
I know lol don't worry.

And yeah it's a good series but the Art Style as well as the Excess Romance is cringy for me tbh
 
That's not even the reason. A lot of 90's manga have "Good old 90's art style". It's like the Author wanted to do a full on Moe series with only school girls with rainbows, unicorns and rabbits in the background
 
About the Chaos stuff:

1) AE wasn't accepted so it should go

2) Nonexistent Physiology is because she lacks a star seed to begin with I believe. But if she has a Star Seed it isn't legit

Idk enough to judge the rest
 
@Cal

It's a Digicore-like thing.

@Lancer

1) Idk

2) Yes, I know. I was just explaining why she has it currently
 
So both AE and NEP goes out of the window?

Also, about the first calc I posted at the top of the post, can you please check it? It's pretty wrong as Usagi never reacted to anything because NQS only empowered her from Earth.
 
Wait for more input. But personally they should go.

I know that the calc it's attack speed. I just don't know the verse enough to say if that should scale to something
 
Okay.

Thing is that attack speed is only exclusive to Lambda Usagi as the Sailor Crystal has shown to have Immeasurable attack speed when used at full power for being above Space-Time as well as lighting up the entire Space-Time continumm in two different occasions. And only Lambda Usagi could use it at it's full power and maybe Eternal Sailor Moon in her strongest form.
 
I'm sorry but I can not answer, I agree with almost everything on the OP (to be honest, I expected to take care of most), thanks for that lancer ;)

I would like to argue for something else like NEP but I can not, I do not think I have the merit of asking to wait for me before doing all its changes but if you do not want, I let you do everything necessary for the profile to be correct;)
 
have you read Sailor Moon? if yes you could help me something else again I hope hehe ;)

Also, Hi Kalt, Cal, and Vel, i hope everythings is good for you but I must leave you, see you next time
 
Bye Dodo

@Cal

Actually, according to SM lore people have a Star Seed. So it would be different compared to everyone else
 
Ofc I did. If I haven't read Sailor Moon, then I wouldn't even be making this thread. So yeah, feel free to discuss Moon with me anytime. And see ya soon.
 
Moon

1. It's the attack speed of the silver crystal. That's what was being measured. It doesn't really come into physical spead until the next arc, when Tellu is the first person to be able to block and intercerpt an attack from the Silver Crystal.

2. I agree on the time rewinding. It's reality warping.

3. Probability manipulation I think comes from something else. I don't remmeber what at this moment. But for now. I agree to move it. I'll make And Sailor Moon does resist the Fate Manipulation. At the end of the arc, Nehellenia makes her curse comes to fruituition and rips her silver crystal and she then begins to dies but she powers through it and recreates her silver crystal and is no longer affected by the curse.

4. There are so many instances of this. The first one is Chapter 3. Sailor Mars burns the dimension down and causees the spacetime to be destroyed.

5. It's PIS. And there's contradiction. Eternal Sailor Moon is called the strongest, the Second only in power to Neo Queen Serenity. Also Chibi-Usa stole the silver crystal from the palace so when, Death Moon attacked, Queen Serenity didn't have her crystal.

6. Sailor Moon can control the Moon. She did it in her final battle with Metallia and can release energy from it.

7. Starseeds are the conceptual.

Senshi

1. Regenerationn and Reincarnation are two different things. The talismons were not invoked manually. They acted on their own accord. The talismons can appear when needed. It's battle applicable as it happened in mid battle imo opinion.

2. Sailor Saturn destroyed the Silver Millienium and set it back to zero and life restarted again.

3. Because the cauldron isn't made of matter/energy (it predates it) and exists outside the flow of time and is purely metaphysical.

Chaos

1. Chaos doesn't have to literally state I have abstract existence to have it. He is the source of all evil and darkness and is the antithesis of the light and good. Evil and darkness are abstract concepts. How can the thing that is the source of abstract source be concrete?

2. Chaos gets non-existant physiology because he wasn't born from the cauldron. He failed to become a star and therefore doesnt exist. Sailor Chaos was born from the cauldron and became a star and exists. (it should aslo be noted that a sailor crystal is seperate from the Sailor Crystal, chaos can have a sailor crystal but no starseed which is what I believe the chaos seed is because he has a chaos guardian because only sailor crystals have gaurdains and star seeds don't)

3. Chaos created the spawn and all their powers come from him. Why wouldn't he be able to use the very powers he created?
 
BTW after reading through the manga I literally haven't seen someone come back through Type 8 in a combat applicable way

Have they ever?
 
 
If you mean the one based on the star crystals: Sailor Galaxia uses it to bring back the dead senshi: but that's not immediate. Plot wise she prevents them from regenerating. So there's no direct battle feat of them regenerating unless you count the ending of the series.
 
Moon

1) That Attack Speed is Immeasurable considering Silver Crystal's light reached Wiseman's realm outside Space-Time and even in Arc 5, it's light lit up the Space-Time continumm and moreover, it was stated to Transcend Space Time. So no, you can't say the calc is valid when it's a clear nitpicking of the feat. Furthermore, empowering someone via that specific method isn't even attack speed.

2) That wasn't even resistance to Fate Manip cuz iirc Mamoru helped her with Golden Crystal. Tho I need to recheck.

3) Burning down a pocket realm/dimension =/= Space Time Breaking.

4) So you mean to say it's a PIS even tho NQS, despite being Universal in your own words and having all the haxes upto Arc 5, still could not destroy Death Phantom yet a weaker version of her along with an inexperienced Chibiusa killed him? Lol she didn't even know him and blatantly stated she could not do anything to him so she had to Banish him and this was BEFORE Chibiusa stole the Silver Crystal. This goes well with how she stated she lost her power after years of becoming Sailor Moon so I don't see how there's any Contradictions.

5) I still don't see how is that helpful in a VSBattle as Lunar Manipulation has little to no application unless you want to pull a MCU Thanos.

6) Starseeds are stated to be the essence or totality of one's being. IDK if it qualifies for concept as there was no instance in the entire manga where they were referred as Concepts. But Sailor Moon never manipulated them.

Senshi

1) It isn't combat Applicable as Hotaru had to be invoked by the Outer Senshis as well as Usagi. Hotaru didn't Regenerate instantly like any other Mid-Godly Character when her Soul was erased when Tau's took over her body. And if she could Regen from getting erased easily then she wouldn't even had to be Reincarnated as a baby and could've Regen'd after being erased. So my point still stands.

2) Except she didn't do that. She only erased everything so that people can be reincarnated and restart their new life. Not like she reset the evolution of people to zero which isn't what the feat implies.

3) Still don't see how does that give them Intangibility. At best it's resistance to Void Manipulation/Existence Erasure.

Chaos

1) Except it was never stated as such and he said he's the manifestation of Darkness and Evil along with his spawns which is very vague and doesn't give you Abstract Existence. Furthermore, nothing implies that without Chaos, Evil would cease to exist. Here's the Scans in two different versions: 1 and 2

2) Pretty Sure regular Humans in the series aren't implied to be Stars so can we automatically assume that they are Non-Existent??? Also I dunno what Headcanon you're using right there but Chaos does have a Star Seed named Chaos Seed which is your essence/totality and the entire series was there to describe it. If Chaos was Non-Existent, he wouldn't even had a Chaos Seed in the first place.

3) Sure he can use their powers but it doesn't equate to him being able to use their Passives as his own Passives especially when there's zero proof of him doing so.
 
1. If attack speed is updated to immeasurable then every character Tellu's level and above will be immeasurable.

2. Yes it was. Nehellenia said that her curse had been fulfilled and both Sailor Moon and Mamoru started to die, but they were able to power through and undo the effects and remake the crystal

3. It's spacetime destruction.

4. like I said it's PIS. And I do believe that NQS didn't kill him because of no death penalty policy.

5. Nevertheless it should still be recorded

6. Sailor Galaxia manipulated them, as Lambda Usagi, she gets her abiltiies as wella s she used the power of all the Sailor Crystals to defeat Chaos.

Senshi

1. The outers didn't invoke it neither did Usagi. The talismans acted on their own. (everyon was shocked when they started to shine) Her soul was erased after Misstress 9 destroyed her body and released her self from it. It's stated that she only appears when needed. And Sailor Moon wanted Hotaru to live an new life and a better life. Like I said, reincarnation is different from regenderation.

2. That's what setting things to zero. She set the silver millinium back to zero so life could start again.

3. That makes no sense. The cauldron is not a void. Something that doesn't have a physical body (matter/energy) is intangible.

Chaos

1. I don't see how that's vague. Says he is the source of Evil and Darkness. Those concepts come from him. How does that not make his existence abstract. How could a concrete

2. Yes they are. The manga calls people stars as a colloquialism. It calls planets, people, senshi, etc. stars. It's just the poetics of the series. They're not literally calling them balls of gas. It's a metaphor. I said the Chaos seed is like a Sailor Crystal, since it has a Guardian like the Sailor Crystals. Star seeds and Sailor crystals are different. Senshi both have a star seed and sailor crystal. The star seed is who they are as a person that exists. The Sailor Crystal is their power.

3. He has their powers, including their passive powers. I don't see the problem at all?
 
Moon

1) Except that'd be completely MASSIVE outlier as no one has Immeasurable speed until Arc 5. But that's beside the point. The Calc was a nitpicking of the feat and not only that but Sailor Moon didn't even react to it as well as empowering someone via the release of Energy while being unconscious doesn't equate to attack speed.

2) Ah then resistance to Fate Manip seems good.

3) No it isn't space time destruction. Otherwise anyone worth their salt who has destroyed pocket realms would have Space-Time breaking.

4) It isn't PIS. You're blatantly ignoring the fact that NQS =/= The main timeline Usagi as not only did She not know about Death Phantom, but she couldn't even do anything against him even when he plotted to kill the planet. NQS stating she lost most of her powers is consistent with what the series was showing us.

5) It's pretty useless and redundant imo but if this wiki allows it then I have no problem.

6) Ah yes I totally forgot about that.

Senshi

1) I should've mentioned that the Talismans invoked her but lol my point still stands firm. It's a non-combat applicable Mid-Godly as for her Mid-Godly to work she needs to be Summoned and not like she Regenerates instantly like any other Mid-Godly Regen Character.

2) Except she erased everything and didn't restart Life. The reincarnation part is applicable for any Sailor Senshi or Inhabitant of Silver Millennium.

3) Except the Cauldron was stated to be place where Everything returns to nothingness aka it's a Void. Which is why when Galaxia threw the Crystals of Memoru and Senshis, they were erased and when Sailor Moon herself plunged in, she was erased too. So no, it's not Intangibility feat of any sort and nothing implies they have Intangibility.

Chaos

1) He doesn't say he's the source of Evil and Darkness. It's completely vague as many characters in fiction has said that before and they're not abstracts. And also when Sailor Moon erased him there was still darkness and stuffs. like Kalt said in this thread it's only Type 8 Immortality.

2) Except it's your Headcanon considering Chaos can have Starseed as well as his own Sailor Crystal for which he gets a Guardian. The Sailor Crystal would also prolly be the main reason as to how Chaos reincarnated as Sailor Chaos. But the point is, Guardian Cosmos blatantly state Chaos has a Starseed which proves that he's not a Non-Existent being. Your only argument pertaining to this is your own headcanon along with Chaos's statement of "I was not born from the Cauldron and I have failed to become a Star" which could mean that he exists as a Non-Corporeal entity rather than a Non-Existent entity.

3) Having his Spawns Powers doesn't really equate to him having their Passives as his own Passives especially when he hasn't shown to have any Passives.
 
1. Hence why it was an attack speed for the silver crystal. I would argue it's hard to call it an outlier when it's done twice in the series.

3.Characters who can destroy dimensions get spacetime destruction. Unless I'm wrong about that? I haven't seen anything that states other wise on the wiki before?

4. You're also ignoring the statement that Eternal Sailor Moon was second in power only to NQS. And the profile is NQS as mainline Sailor Moon in the future

Senshi

1. I believe it's combat applicable as it happened in middle of the final battle. And the talismons act on their own and appear on their own to thsoe who needed (as it did with Chibi-usa).

2. Yes. She erased the silver millinieum and then life restarted again in earth. I didn't say she's the one who restarted life. It's that life started again after she dropped the staff and set the sivler millenium back to zero. If it's confusing it can be reworded in her profile.

3. It's still not a void. A void is nothingness. The Cauldron isn't nothingness. The intangibility comes from them not having physical forms made out of matter. They're like ghosts or spirits.

Chaos

1. I disagree that's its vague but we can make a seperate thing about that.

2. It's not my headcannon. (and please let's keep such accusations away. It's bad form to claim I'm just making this up) The basis for non-existence comes from Chaos's own words that he was never born a star. If you weren't born from the Cauldron you don't have a starseed. The Chaos seed is like the Sailor Crystal, (as it has it's own gaurdian). We know that sailor crystals and Starseeds are seperate things because the Senshi have two. (Sailor Chaos will have a starseed by virtue of being born from the cauldron and the Chaosseed as well as the gaurdian and the core)

3. I simply disagree. If he has his spawns powers then why would he not get their passive?
 
1) It's not an Attack Speed Feat as no one attacked no one. It's extremely inconsistent considering it was done only in Arc 2 and then in Arc 5. For Arc 2 it'd be extremely Outlierish. But that's beside the point. It's not an attack speed feat given the mechanism.

2) No then don't. Characters who destroy pocket realms or dimensions don't get Space-Time breaking.

3) Where does it state Eternal Sailor Moon is second only to NQS and how does that correlate to NQS losing most of her powers as a Queen??? And no NQS isn't the main timeline Sailor Moon for multiple reasons. She didn't know who Death Phantom was despite her past self fighting and defeating her and even knowing that he is a spawn of Chaos. She didn't even know about Galaxia and Chaos which caused so many critical events to happen

Senshi

1) It's not Combat Applicable as for her to be invoked, the Talismans need to be there together. In Combat they aren't there unless the Outer Senshis who wield them are there with her.

2) No it's not the case. Reincarnation/Rebirth was stated to come after death. All she did was erase the Silver Millennium. Provide scans of her resetting everything back if you think that's the case.

3) Except Chapter 59 and 60 heavily imply that it's a Void. It is also stated to be the place where Stars are born and where Stars die. It is where the Starseeds of the Senshis+Mamoru were erased. It's also where Lambda Usagi was erased. And where does The intangibility comes from them not having physical forms made out of matter. They're like ghosts or spirits come from? Do you have proof that they are intangible?

Chaos

1) It's only Type 8. Nothing more.

2) Sorry about that, didn't mean to accuse you. Just that your misinterpretation doesn't add up here. And like I've previously said, Chaos does have a Starseed as per Guardian Cosmos comment who is more reliable than Chaos for being there since before creation. His statement of not being born from the Cauldron as well as failed to become a star only gives him Non-Corporeality and nothing more. It only means that Chaos exists as a Non-Corporeal entity which also fits with how he has aspects/spawns

3) Proof of Chaos displaying his Passive Haxes?? If your creation/aspects have Passives, it doesn't mean you have the same Passives unless there's feats to back it up.
 
1. It's calc how fast the crystal released energy. The crystal releases energy to attack so it can be used as an attack speed. And I don't think it's fair for the verse that we upgrade a speed feat and then rule it as an outlier because of the upgrade. I believe the original calc still has merit and explains it self well. (and that it should be given it's own thread of discussion)

2. I'm pretty sure they do. But we'll let others chime in on that. No sense on going back and forth.

3. It's said by Diana right after Sailor Moon transforms into ESM for the first time in the Dream Arc. Also the NQS on that profile is the NQS that mainline Sailor Moon becomes

Senshi

1. The talismans have shown they can appear on their own without the other outer senshi there as the mirror apperaed to Chibi-usa who needed it

2. Her erasing the silver millennium is what the reset back to zero is talking about. Sailor Saturn causes the destruction that allows rebirth to happen. She's called the Sailor Scout of rebirth for that reason.

3. It's not a void because voids are nothingness. It's described as a sea/ocean of light. Void's are typically black and empty. The corridor of spacetime is closer to being a void than the cauldron. And Intangiability comes from that they are apart of the cauldron and even the art style draws them as ehtereal. ALso Sailor Moon asks that they be returned to how they were before showing that they are in a entirely different form than when they were alive with flesh bodies in the unvierse. Idk how more I can explain it's quite apparent on the page the cauldron is like an afterlife and their spirit like.

Chaos

1. No need to go back and forth. We disagree.

2. Non-corpeal enetites still have starseeds. Metallia was born from the cauldron and still non-corpeal. Everything that exists in the unvierse was born from the cauldron from a star seed. Chaos says he was never born, so how can he exist within context of how the verse works? The Chaos seed that Cosmos refers to is like the sailor crystal. Seperate from the concept of starseed. The difference between Chaos and Sailor Chaos is that Sailor CHaos was born into the universe.

3. Chaos has all their powers. They are all incarnations of himself. Either he has all their powers of he doesn't. It makes zero sense to single out certain abiltiies. And the senshi were shown to be immune/resist the chaos's spawn's passive abilties anyways. When it's only Sailor Galaxia, ESM, and Sailor Cosmos facing, (the three strongest beings) why would they be effected by those abilties weaker senshi had no trouble with.

And I'll be replying tomorrow to any response or comments. I'm off to bed as it is nearly tomorrow where I am now.
 
1) Because it's a complete Outlier for anyone below Arc 5 to have Immeasurable speed. The original calc has 0 merits considering it was a nitpicked calc based on Silver Crystal's 4D attributes

2) They don't. You can ask any member. Unless Space-Time is directly involved, destroying a pocket realm or a dimension is not a feat of Space-Time breaking.

3) So you completely ignore what I said about how NQS has blatant Contradictions of being the main timeline SM. Lol

Senshi

1) LMAO it's because Chibiusa wished for it. They don't appear out of nowhere. And neither do they automatically invoke Saturn on their own. But like I said, her Mid-Godly isn't combat Applicable in VSB matches

2) All she did was Erase the Silver Millennium. She didnt reset anything. Her being called a Scout of Rebirth is because of how the verse treats reincarnation. Mostly everyone in the verse reincarnates after their death/erasure which is a verse mechanics.

3) Voids can literally be White. Like Q's afterlife or the Overvoid in DC. Art style has little to no relevance in here as are your other arguments due to complete lack of proof/evidence

Chaos

1) You're the only one in disagreement. Kal, Dodo, Gar,etc all agree that it doesn't qualify for Abstract Existence and possibly gives only Type 8 due to lack of evidence.

2) Where does it say that the Chaos Seed is Sailor Crystal for Chaos? Proof? Chaos's Non-Corporeality is way different than Metallia's. His statement of never being born doesn't really mean he's non-existent. It just means he wasn't born as a star like the Sailor Senshis which is why he was reborn as a Sailor Senshi in his future. If he was Non-Existent, Cosmos wouldn't even have made the comment of how his Starseed has faded away

3) I think you're completely misunderstanding my comment. He has all their abilities, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that he doesn't have the Passive Abilities of those as his own Passives. Like Metallia has Passive Energy Drain and Mind Manipulation. While Chaos will likely have the same Abilities, there is no proof that they would be Passive for him. They can be a part of his hax but that doesn't mean that it'll be a passive ability for him too.
 
I think that Lancer seems to make sense, especially if even Dodonova/The Causality agrees with him.
 
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