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Tharja vs Hyde

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Kisaragi_Megumi

Kisaragi_Megumi

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Alright son,let's start the Hyde spam right now ovo Lets make another FE match right now,this time new Tharja the **** lewd waifu match,fight an edgy boi here,who gonna win!!?

-Both didn't have prep time here

-Speed equalized

-Both in character

-Place located in Mori Art Museum: https://www.mori.art.museum/e

-Range is 50 meters

-Win via INCAP!!!

Hyde Thumbnail
Tharja Heroes


VS


  • Inconclusive: 7 (Dragon,Witch,Js,Sayo,Dargoo,Pack,JSW)
 
Yikes.

How likely is Hyde going to erase people off the bat and is it passivley on his blade? Like, does he erase with every slash or is it a technice thing?

The following statement is assuming thats its a attack and not passively on the sword. I will say the following tho: If Hyde dosnt instantly erases withing the first few exchanges then Tharja will roll over him. Her Ap advantage will be bigger the more she gets hurts, to the point where a oneshot isnt impossible. That paired with Nosferatu makes it nearly impossible for Hyde to put her down without erasing her. Establishing that comes another problem for Hyde and why he needs to erase Tharja asap to win: Anathema plus her Slowburner, paired with Tharjas fighting style being DODGE!!! (thanks TFS) will make it nearly impossible for Hyde to erase her the longer the fights take.

And this is not taking in Tharjas "Offbattle" abilitys that comes from her Supports (No time for shipping simulator so i apologize for a lackluster analyzes)

Tharja for having a kit that works against Hyde pretty well.
 
The EE is comes from his sword,basically all of his slash are EE,but it work after few slash iirc,i might wrong tho.

Gonna contact the other Under Night expert to come here.
 
Well not an expert but from what i heard from Dragon, it's basically him slashing you to break down your existence until you're erased. So basically, he slashes a few times and boom, you're erased

Could be wrong though :x
 
Thats even worse if both of your are correct. Hyde cant even go full lol erase from the get go at her then.
 
ALRF and Velox are correct. It will take a couple slashes, but Tharja is likely to be taken aback by the fact that her very existence has been cut. This is no ordinary damage for Tharja. And Hyde has many attacks that can be multi-hit as well. I don't think her healing will actually restore her existence. In Under Night, the only way the characters are able to restore their Existence is to absorb EXS...Which Tharja can't do.

I am gonna ignore that Low-High regen as I do not even know where it came from and I do not trust it, but regardless Hyde can heal himself by absorbing any EXS around. Also Tharja has to get past that Type 5 Immortality.

Basically, Tharja will have to deal with the fact that her Existence is being cut directly, something she has never reacted to before, meaning that she will really taken aback by it, likely giving Hyde more of a chance to get the last attacks in.
 
Incap actually give Hyde more leverage as his attacks are more likely to knock Tharja out due to the sheer effect of having her literal existence being cut.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Incap actually give Hyde more leverage as his attacks are more likely to knock Tharja out due to the sheer effect of having her literal existence being cut.
Click to expand...
Thats kinda lowballing Tharjas adaption to battlefield situations. She will probably assume its a cursed weapon or something and will even be more cautious about getting hit. And this is ignoring Tharja's nearly 3 times big ap advantage. What stops Tharja from knocking out Hyde with a single attack against lethal body parts? Another thing is that Tharja herself would never engage in CQC range to begin with, considering her job as a mage.

As for Nosferatu not healing her thats a fair point and i agree, it probably wont heal her erased bodyparts. It will still hit him with her AP tho.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Incap actually give Hyde more leverage as his attacks are more likely to knock Tharja out due to the sheer effect of having her literal existence being cut.
Click to expand...
I see.

Also Dragon,continue debating Kazumi vs Hyde pls.
 
There is a complete difference to adapting to you getting hurt with a magical weapon and you adapting to the fact that your very existence, Mind, Body, Soul, Characteristics, etc are being cut. There is going to be way more of a delay in her playback that there would be with any other attack.

3x is not enough to one shot any way, and Hyde can just dodge as well. That's not a lost art. Dodging is a thing. Not to mention Hyde also has projectiles as well that all do the same thing that Insulator does when it cuts something. Every single attack he uses is going to rend her Existence apart, piece by piece. Matter of fact, things such as his Infinite Worth (Savage God's Roaring Howl ) and Lotus may actually take it out in a single go seeing as they are big multi hit moves. Also as I pointed out, In-Births can heal themselves. All he needs to do is absorb the EXS in the air to heal. Need I mention that Insulator actually gives Hyde his own personal Ultra Instinct. Insulator causes Hyde's body to move, attack and dodge on his own. This gives Hyde a higher possibility of closing the gap on Tharja.
 
Either way, I vote Inconclusive.

Tharja has the range and power, however, Hyde has the means to bypass said gap and get hits in. Hyde's attack will most definitely take Tharja aback, however, if Hyde doesn't keep up the pressure, she has a high chance to rebound and take him out. However, if Hyde keeps up the pressure after the first assault, he wins. Basically, the first assault decides this fight overall.
 
Him dodging her attacks are more unlikely then vice versa tho. Hex and Anathema will make his body sluggish and dulls his senses, compared to Tharja having no interferences in the fight. The same "being taken aback by a single attack" can be applied to Hyde too, considering that hes being slapped by 3 times the force he normaly receives. And those are not some super attacks, those are Tharja throwing around normal attacks.

Hyde needs to close in and slashes Tharja often enough to erase her, while being hindered extremly just by being near Tharja, while Tharja just need to hit Hyde 2-3 times to knock him out. That while being able to back pedal herself mind you, she will defnitly not allow a sword fighter to rush to her and engage her in melee range.

@JSW

OI, where did that transmutation come from boi?
 
Yeah, unfortunately the Support Conversation haxxes aren't used in gameplay because it would be absolutely game breaking, especially for Henry, but in SCs they're just casually thrown around
 
I disagree, his instictive reaction and the fact that he can restore everything via absorbing EXS makes it pretty likely, not to mention Insulator can absorb any energy thrown at him to restore his EXS. She will have interferences though. You are downplaying the effect of getting your existence rended. That is more than physical damage. Not to mention you ignore that Hyde also has many ranged attacks as well. And just like Hyde, this is done by basic attacks. Both are hendered by one attack, and both have ways to easily get that attack off. Note that they are only 50 meters apart making it much easier for Hyde to get in range.

Hyde doesn't need to close in to attack her. He has ranged moves that have the same effect as him slashing her up close. Matter of fact one of his attacks literally paralyzes the foe and leaves them helpless. Before charging up an attack that will basically erase Tharja immediately. You are assuming that Hyde is only Melee when he objectively is not as many of his more dangerous skills are actually projectile based. Hyde can also back pedal himself if need be and play the range game as well. just as well as he can close the game with his instinctive reaction. I know everything Tharja can do y'know. I played through Awakening many times so I am not ignorant of how Tharja fights. But I also know that Hyde isn't a sitting duck either and isn't just going to stand there and not dodge. Not to mention he has fought primarily ranged fighters who are stronger than him before and won.
 
Im not downplaying the effect, i am going by the fact that Tharja isnt instantly partly erased at the start of the battle, compared to Hyde being obstructed because of passive auras and curses from the get go.

I kinda blended out his ranged attacks and i apologize for that.

So he has pseudo ultra instinct, it still gets dulled due Hax and Anathema thought. And i didnt claim that hes not dodging at all, even tho your arguments kinda implied that Tharja would stand still too ya know.

I didnt play Under Night In-Birth so i will not judge the feat of beating Hylda. And i dont know much of Hydes range feats so excuse my audacity to assume that Tharja is an actuall better range fighter. Considering that shes an extremly skilled mage who fought an battlefields riddles with archers and other mages and thus having more experience and skill in that regard. So if it comes to an range fight then i am sure that Tharja is more likely to hit/doge then Hyde. (Not meant condecending btw, i truly mean what i wrote)
 
"Im not downplaying the effect, i am going by the fact that Tharja isnt instantly partly erased at the start of the battle, compared to Hyde being obstructed because of passive auras and curses from the get go."

She is though. Each attack rends and erases part of her. That's what Insulator does. What passives exactly. I don't remember any passives from Awakening.

"So he has pseudo ultra instinct, it still gets dulled due Hax and Anathema thought. And i didnt claim that hes not dodging at all, even tho your arguments kinda implied that Tharja would stand still too ya know. "

That is a blatant misconception of what I said. Matter of fact, my entire arguement was on the assumption that Tharja would move around I even implied that in my vote for inconclusive. However, my argument was that his instinctive reaction, the ability to absorb energy and EXS to heal and restore himself. My last post blatantly stated that she could back pedal, however I mentioned that Hyde could in fact keep pace with her (in any normal scenario he's faster). So no, my argument was nowhere near implying she stood still whatsoever.

"Considering that shes an extremly skilled mage who fought an battlefields riddles with archers and other mages and thus having more experience and skill in that regard."

Tharja is more skilled then Hilda yes, however note who Hilda can defeat on her file and has defeated in various story modes. Linne. A characters who has been fighting various ranged fighters and other skilled warriors for thousands of years. I should mention Hyde in his story can defeat Linne as well. And he was trained by both Linne and Waldstein, two characters with experience that far outrankes a good majority of Fire Emblem characters (minus the dragons of course). Hilda is pure range, literally every attack she has is range based. Only things she does that is close range is a simple low kick every now and then. 9.9 times out of ten, she is teleporting around and spamming her Paradox blades. Honestly, Tharja's exp and skill doesn't really changed much.

Not to mention like I said, Hyde has many skills that could erase Tharja on the spot such as his Infinite Worth which forces Tharja to be paralyzed and helpless as well as the stronger versions of his Ranged attacks. And as I've stated, Insulator causes Hyde to move and attack against his will and as such Insulator is more likely to launch more powerful attacks than what Hyde would rather do. Also refer to my inconclusive vote. I say that both are very likely to dodge considering the mechanics of EXS and such along with the effects of getting your Existence rended apart with each attack. One does not simply walk away from that. Having your existence rended will cause more backlash than just a strong physical blow, especially from a sword that can kill beings with Type 5 immortality. And if I am being blunt, this "it takes multiple strikes" is me being generous and conservative seeing as Under Night is only started it's story, so the full mechanics regarding Insulator and it overall being a "Conceptual Weapo" are not yet explained. I could easily argue that one slash = one hit kill. Only reason the characters don't die immediately from Insulator is because they resist it.

Hence why I'd prefer, we not use Hyde all too much
 
Ah yes, the attack that will require Tharja to get partially erased in order to actually matter, but also erased just enough for Tharja to still hold a tome, and also not in a vital spot
 
"She is though. Each attack rends and erases part of her"

At the start of the battle? Without being hit first? THATS my point. Shes not instantly obstructed prior being hit. Hyde IS because of Anathema and Hax. Nothing more, nothing less. I aknowledged the fact that her being hit once can spell her doom real fast, but so does Tharja. My entire point is that Tharja STARTS with an advantage because of her passive curse aura, compared to Hyde who needs to HIT her FIRST before obstructing her. If he has some kind of magical way to instantly erase her partly then that better be on the profile.

I didnt said your entire argument implied that tho. Reffering to your first 2 rebuttal comments. It may be a misunderstanding from my side but the fact that you didnt stated how he instantly closed the distance and manages to slash her, without including the fact that she can still move and attack, felt like you implying that shes just standing there and letting herself getting hit, despite her battles being constantly doging and keeping her distance from her enemys. Especially considering that you mentioned Hydes range game only later, strengthend the feeling of you implying. I apologise for stating that without explaining myself.

I could nitpick and state that being trained by someone =/= being as good as that person but again, i dont know the series so i refrain from that.

And again, youre argumenting based on the fact that Tharja is suddenly as obstructed Hyde will be. Hyde is only in advantage if he can hit her the first time, while she has that advantage from the beginning. And again, i dont say that Tharja just walks away from being partly erased, i wanna hear how both have equall ways to hit eachother when one IS obstructed from the battles begin and when one is only obstructed after being hit once. I will not downplay Hyde's ultra instinct (bear with me on that, i dont want to look up that name again and again, Ultra instict is fitting enough), but considering the mechanics behind Tharjas curse auras obstructing the body, i dont believe it to be effective enough to outweight the negative effects Hyde has to deal with first.
 
Ah yes, the attack that will require Tharja to get partially erased in order to actually matter, but also erased just enough for Tharja to still hold a tome, and also not in a vital spot

She has fought a war where every single wound has been like that.

Welp.

We might as well add Super Luck to the profile.
 
You're literally comparing every single weapon in FE, which isn't going to outright cut through Tharja, to actual existence erasure
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
You're literally comparing every single weapon in FE, which isn't going to outright cut through Tharja, to actual existence erasure
Click to expand...
Its not erasing her outright with one hit right?
 
Let's address these passive curses.

"Anathema: Tharja is constantly cursing her foes, dulling their senses with her mere presence."

Okay, that's nice and all, but how does that stop Insulator from just moving Hyde's body against his will. Insulator is not a living thing with senses and Hyde is neither Alive nor Dead, he's an In-Birth, i.e pretty darn near nonexistent.

"Hex: Tharja's mastery of hexes allows her to dull her opponents reflexes should they attempt to approach her, lowering their ability to dodge."

Once again, dulling Hyde's reflexes on its own does not help much when Insulator takes care of that as long as Hyde is still willing to fight, in which he will. As once again as I stated multiple times, Hyde's body moves on its own due to Insulator and his awakening as an In-Birth.

"It may be a misunderstanding from my side but the fact that you didnt stated how he instantly closed the distance and manages to slash her, without including the fact that she can still move and attack, felt like you implying that shes just standing there and letting herself getting hit, despite her battles being constantly doging and keeping her distance from her enemys. "

Close the distance means that he can catch up to her. Whether she moves or not, he can catch up. She attacks, he dodges. Her passives activate, Insulator moves for him.

"I could nitpick and state that being trained by someone =/= being as good as that person but again, i dont know the series so i refrain from that."

So you ignored the point that he actually defeated said person? Something I stated in my post?

"Hyde is only in advantage if he can hit her the first time, while she has that advantage from the beginning"

And I have explained that it is not exactly the case considering how his body as an In-Birth works and how Insulator will make him move without the need of anything else. As long as his body can move, Hyde will be fine.

"i wanna hear how both have equall ways to hit eachother when one IS obstructed from the battles begin and when one is only obstructed after being hit once."

I will gladly explain again. So Tharja starts with two sense and reflex dulling passives. Insulator causes Hyde to move on his own, despite such a thing. At this point, it depends on what happens after that part. If Hyde gets any one attack in, either ranged or CQC, Tharja's done. If Tharja gets any spell in, Hyde is done for a bit. As once again, he can absorb EXS and energy to heal and repair himself. Tharja can't kill Hyde no matter what she does. Meanwhile, Hyde can still get back up, her only choice being to knock him unconscious, which despite the 3x gap, will be hard to do with Insulator in the way. It's a who get the decisive blow first, and considering the nature of both characters, it is 50/50. Tharja being a ranged fighter is nothing new as she shows no more skill than Hilda, to be blunt. Just zone and shoot, zone and shoot and Hilda's attacks are pretty darn close to Danmaku and to be blunt, are much harder to dodge compared to Tharja's spells due to their nature. And Hyde in his story can beat her all by himself. I should note that simply being in contact with Insulator or simply it's power (EXS power) is enough to cause damage to your existence.

The Insulator's power is referred as the Eternity Killer, Loop End (µ░©Úüᵫ║ÒÇîÒâ½Òâ╝ÒâùÒé¿Òâ│ÒâëÒÇì), the power to rend apart Existence. This makes it possible to kill In-Births, Voids and even Re-Births, which makes the blade difficult to defend against as any contact with it and its power can threaten its target with guaranteed residual damage.
Either way, I plan on double checking everything I said here regardless, but this is my last comment on this thread as I am not too comfortable debating the haxier characters of Under Night because the series mechanics are not fleshed out yet.
 
No problem, i will admit defeat, but i still want to throw in input before doing so. Adress them if needed but i will change to inclousive to regardless.

To the curses. Call it petty (it probably is) but i kinda question the description of the abilitys and where they come from. Considering that the ingame description only explains the effect and not how its done. Are they interpretation or do they stem from official side scources like, dunno, artbooks and stuff? But this is not the place for that.

I actually didnt, i got genuily confused by that sentence. After rereading it i got somewhat more confused. Correct me if i am wrong but going by that statement you say that Tharja > Hilda > Linna < Hyde right?

Other than that, i shall change my vote to Incon for Dragons reasons.
 
See, I was working out the scaling in my head, but this is what happens when a verse does not have one solid canon scenario.

In Hyde's story, he beats Linne and Hilda.

In Linne's, she beats Hilda.

In Hilda's, she beats both Linne and Hyde.

In Wagner's, Hilda beats both Linne and Hyde.
 
There was a time in which a bunch of nonsense descriptions for skills was made because they're never outright explained, but I should mention that either Anathema or Hex (it's been so long since I played Awakening) one of then only works when they're up close

But the descriptions are 100% made up
 
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