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Elder God Demonbane Vs. The One Above All

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Aurasuke

Aurasuke

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At first this may sound like an obvious answer Tier 0 vs Tier High 1-A, it's obvious that tier 0 is a higher tier as well as the highest tier so naturally one would automatically assume the one above all wins.

However the question remains is the one above all truly omnipotent? Tier 0 is defined as questionably omnipotent meaning they are assumed to be omnipotent until proven otherwise.

The presence was tier 0 until he was killed making him tier 1-B, thus he is now no longer considered to be "questionably omnipotent"

See discussion for details on how tier 0 is defined compared to Tier High 1-A

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/194895#8

Now consider the difference between the second most powerful being in marvel which is prerect-beyonder or perhaps some may argue the living tribunal.

They are at tier 1-B which means that The One Above All does not need to be truly omnipotent or even questionably omnipotent to be far beyond them.

The One Above All could be simply a Tier 1-A character or High Tier 1-A and to characters that are Tier 1-B, they would pratically the same as a Tier 0 character.

Many websites have stated that The Presence in DC is similar to The One Above All. My question is that do we truly know for sure that The One Above All who is currently at Tier 0 would beat Elder God Demonbane who is at High 1-A, if the second highest person in Marvel is far below even the Elder Gods in Demonbane?

I guess the point I want to get across is if The One Above All did not exist in Marvel, and some Elder God came into Demonbane, he would have power far greater than any other character.

Thus it wouldn't be necessary for The One Above All to tier 0 for him to be above all characters within the Marvel. He could simply be Tier 1-A and no one else would be above him, thus putting him at the rank of The One Above All.
 
Not sure,

As for the thread, the argument I wanted to present is that the living tribunal is tier 1-B, even beyonder is high 1-B, tier 0 characters are not truly omnipotent, but only presumed so because nothing in their fiction has surpassed them.

Therefore for the one to surpass the living tribunal and beyonder, he doesn't need to be tier 0, any tier 1-A character would be able to surpass the living tribunal or beyonder.

With that logic in mind, The One Above All is stated to be omnipotent and is ranked at tier 0 because no other character is stronger than him within Marvel.

However at the same time an Elder God from Demonbane would be higher than beyonder and the living tribunal.

If the One Above All was equal to an Elder God from Demonbane, he would still be above all the other characters in Marvel.

The reason Elder God Demonbane is not Tier 0, is because Azathoth is the true god of Demonbane.
 
The reason why Demonbane loses is because he is a false Infinity. When characters identity is basically "the strongest no matter what" as TOAA's is, then no amount of obscene high multiversal hax will stop them. If there was a way of quantifying how much "stuff" was in the entire Marvel universe and comparing it to the amount of "stuff" in the Demonbane universe, it might be possible to rank them. But you can't and so Demonbane, a false Infinity, loses.
 
As far as I understand, the OAA is placed at tier 0 for being stated to have created the omniverse, which was at one point defined as all of reality and fiction combined/absolutely everything.

This is of course ridiculous, as Marvel characters have no influence outside of the copyright restrictions of their franchises, but nevertheless creating absolutely everything is apparently the way that the Marvel handbook writers wanted the character to be interpreted at the time.

However, in the Marvel writer Al Ewing's recent comicbooks, the omniverse is presented as not absolute at all, as there are many beings beyond, and possible to journey outside of it, so we may downgrade the OAA eventually.
 
Does that mean that the Omniverse in Marvel is then restricted to twelve dimensions then? (discounting beyonder's realm)

Also what does infinite dimensions even mean? It seems like something the author threw in in order to make beyonder more powerful without an adequate reason.
 
I made a similar argument before. TOAA lacks the feats to even be put on par with Nyarlathotep, let alone EGD.

Writer intentions dont really matter. They have to actually show TOAA performing those feats to make them count.

The author of OPM intended for Saitama to be able to beat anyone with no trouble at all, that doesnt mean we should take this seriously.
 
Going by current profiles, TOAA should stomp Elder God Demonbane completely.

But using feats to define supreme beings with the Big Two is quite difficult. The space the Overmonitor occupies has never been properly defined. It's only described as this Azathoth scientist sort of being. TOAA is sort of similar; it's only described as supreme to all, Fulcrum, any version of the Beyonder, the Living Tribunal, other cosmic entities, whatever. And to be honest, we will never get definite feats from these guys because the Big Two are already Power Creep fests as we know it.
 
One could say that any Elder God from Demonbane is also far beyond all characters in Marvel combined who isn't The One Above All right?

They are described to be virtually omnipotent, but they are not tier 0 because there are other Gods who are more powerful than they are.
 
The thing is that no matter what stupidly powerful thing some hack Marvel writer will create, infinite dimensions, above abstract concepts, above space-time, etc., Brevoort or someone like him will counter and say that The-One-Above-All will be more powerful than that thing. And that is a very vague thing to say. At that point, TOAA will might as well be Unknown tier.

EGD explicitly could not take out Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth, which means he's not the most powerful character but at least his powers are well defined.
 
If only one Elder God existed in the Demonbane series let's say Yog-Sothoth, where none of the other god's existed would that make them tier 0?
 
If Azathoth wasn't there, Yog might as well be since he encompasses all of existence itself and everything that makes it up.
 
In that case tier 0 isn't an absolute boundary but rather the character who is defined as 'God' within the series right?

Since tier 0 is not defined as omnipotent but simply that of power greater than every other character in the series so that they may be virtually omnipotent to every other character in that series.
 
If EDG ever defeats Yog i'll be very surpised.

Cthulu Mythos, and Demonbane by extension, is among the most powerful fictional franchises that exist.

That being said, based off the current profile, i'll vote for TOAA.
 
Aurasuke said:
In that case tier 0 isn't an absolute boundary but rather the character who is defined as 'God' within the series right?

Since tier 0 is not defined as omnipotent but simply that of power greater than every other character in the series so that they may be virtually omnipotent to every other character in that series.
Click to expand...
I wish it were that easy. Supreme Beings still have to adhere to the scale established here, which is why such beings like Eru lluvatar and Arceus aren't Tier 1 characters. Yog-Sothoth has all the makings of a Tier 0 character. It's just that Azathoth, the Nameless Mist, and the Unnamed Darkness are much higher than him.

The One Above All is a special case. Every Marvel editor is going to take that title literally, even if we have beings such as Pre-Retcon Beyonder and the Fulcrum.
 
DarkLK
The battle would be a draw because tier 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by DarkLK 6 hours ago


https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:DarkLK

Sorry, I have no idea how to quote others.

@ Naste

I can understand your logic in having The One Above All personify the authrors intention but I don't think we can apply such logic in this situation. For example it would be saying one author wants his character to be the strongest and therefore automatically above any other character rewritten by any other author in any other franchise. The author's only hold power within their own franchise and appylying the concepts of reality into fiction written by different people doesn't seem fair.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the requirements of a tier 0 are, a series where there are beings who are of higher dimensions or tier 1, and the being who is tier 0 is far beyond all the other beings within the series with no limitations shown by the author. As soon as any sort of limitation is shown even if it's irrelevant to one's combat strength, it is shown to be Tier 1-A or High Tier 1-A.

Thus I suppose my argument is even if TOAA is tier 0, he is simply considered to have infinite power over Marvel, however we cannot say he has infinite power over Demonbane or Lovecraft works.

Thus we cannot conclusively say TOAA > Demonbane, even if TOAA is at tier 0 where as Elder God Demonbane is at tier High 1-A.
 
I don't think we should include authors in vs battle, that's like 6 billion potential tier 0s lol
 
if u see toaa as an author, he godstomps


if u see him as a character, he still likely wins tbqh


and this is coming from an egd fan
 
Well I think that considering this

DarkLK

The battle would be a draw because tier 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by DarkLK 6 hours ago

we can't know that TOAA> Elder God Demonbane.

They are from different fictions so saying one is the author may hold credit in Marvel, but when it stretches to another fiction we can't apply the same logic because Marvel doesn't hold any power outside of it's trademark.

DarkLK stated that er 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing, which means we can't really tell if TOAA>Elder God Demonbane as he is Tier 0 in another franchise, but not Tier 0 in Demonbane (series).

We may be able to say that Azathoth can defeat Elder God Demonbane in Demonbane (though some even say that's debatable), however we cannot definitively say that tier 0 in one series is beyond tier high 1-A of another series.


 
TOAA only has control of his multiverse, not any other multiverse. The Beyonders destroyed the Marvel Multiverse, meaning TOAA failed to stop them. This also means he now has control over 0 universes.

EGD can fight through infinite universes and be infinite in size. This means he has infinitely more control than TOAA.

GG no re
 
You guys seem to be referring to the Living Tribunal. The-One-Above-All never did anything during Secret Wars and the last time I remember him doing anything was when Peter flipped him off during One More Day.

Also, having TOAA being involved in Hickman's Secret Wars is not interesting. It would be a bigger Deus Ex Machina than anything Jim Starlin could come up with.
 
Natse said:
You guys seem to be referring to the Living Tribunal. The-One-Above-All never did anything during Secret Wars and the last time I remember him doing anything was when Peter flipped him off during One More Day.
Also, having TOAA being involved in Hickman's Secret Wars is not interesting. It would be a bigger Deus Ex Machina than anything Jim Starlin could come up with.
Click to expand...
Yeah sorry about that I get the two mixed up alot.
 
Pre-Retcon Beyonder says he is millions of times stronger than the entire multiverse combined

TOAA is in that multiverse, meaning Pre-Retcon is millions of times stronger than TOAA

EGD is infinite, and infinite is bigger than a finite number like "millions of times", so EGD should be infinitely above TOAA
 
TOAA was not concieved at the time, and infintiy is relative to your level of existence.

Elder God Demonbane still godstomps though.
 
The Everlasting said:
TOAA was not concieved at the time, and infintiy is relative to your level of existence.

Elder God Demonbane still godstomps though.
Click to expand...
Care to downgrade The-One-Above-All?
 
He's saying it's the same thing because, more often than not, the only thing restricting a High 1-A from 0 is there already being a 0.

As it stands, The-One-Above-All is 0, while EGD is High 1-A. He wins by default and you can't say otherwise unless the page suddenly changes.
 
The Everlasting said:
He's saying it's the same thing because, more often than not, the only thing restricting a High 1-A from 0 is there already being a 0.
As it stands, The-One-Above-All is 0, while EGD is High 1-A. He wins by default and you can't say otherwise unless the page suddenly changes.
Click to expand...
While it is true the One Above All is tier 0 in his marvel's franchise, as you said yourself, the only reason that restricts a High 1-A from being a tier 0, is that within the same series there is another being more powerful.

However the logic that tier 0 automatically defeats tier high 1-A doesn't seem convincing. Though this may sound like a stupid comparison, DarkLK had actually replied and defined the tier system for tier 0 vs tier high 1-A, please see the first link for the initial question about tier 0 vs tier high 1-A, and the second for DarkLk's response.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category_talk:Tier_0

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/194895#11

We may be able to say Azazoth > Elder God Demonbane as they are from the same series, and thus are comparable from a tier 0 vs a tier high 1-A standpoint, however Demonbane and Marvel are different franchises.

DarkLk stated that tier 0 and tier high-1A are pretty much the same, and when applying logic across different works of fiction, one has to remember that everything in fiction is relative to the other characters.

DarkLK

The battle would be a draw because tier 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by DarkLK 6 hours ago

For instance if TOAA did not exist in Marvel, and Yog-Sothoth suddenly appeared in the Marvel universe, he would be considered tier 0, as there is no other tier higher than him, and he has all the qualities needed to be a tier 0 being.

However in Demonbane, he is tier High-1A because Azazoth exists who is the true tier 0 of Demonbane.
 
You cannot go cross-verse for that. That logic does not work. We have tiers for the characters, and we're sticking with them, you can't change that.
 
I understand that TOAA has a higher tier than EGD, however are you saying that TOAA is simply more powerful than EGD based on that fact alone?

Dark Lk stated that:

DarkLK

The battle would be a draw because tier 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by DarkLK 6 hours ago

If we're crossing verses to have Marvel and Demonbane characters to fight, what's wrong with applying the same type of logic if we were to move one character from one verse to another?

If what DarkLK stated is correct, we have no reason to believe that tier 0 will automatically defeat tier high 1-A if they are not within the same fiction.
 
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