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Elder God Demonbane Vs. The One Above All

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I'm saying you make it sound like, if you're High 1-A and you fo to a verse without a 0, you automatically become 0. Whether or not this is true is rather irrelevant, as we're using the stats availible, which is a 0 TOAA and High 1-A EGD.
 
Well the reason I say this is because The Source was once tier 0, until he got killed. We assumed he was tier 0, until the author proved otherwise.

Please forgive me for using this kind of comparison as it sounds rather absurd, however the question I asked DarkLK was this.

An omnipotent being is placed up against another being who is nearly omnipotent, and can absolutely anything except make a pizza from thin air. That does not mean they are limited to not being able to create, they can create cars, planes, universes, erase reality, and anything else possible.

Would the omnipotent being win simply because he can create a pizza which offers no avdvantage in combat or would it be a tie because two beings are essentially omnipotent.

However due to the second character's restriction they are classified as tier HIgh-1A, I gave this question to DarkLK, and he had replied:

DarkLK

The battle would be a draw because tier 0 and high tier 1-A are pretty much the same thing.

Edited by DarkLK 6 hours ago

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category_talk:Tier_0

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/194895#11

Thus if that was the case, I concluded that it must have been possible that Tier 0 may = Tier High 1-A in some circumstances.
 
In my first post on this topic, I already said that the problem was comparing the two verses. You can't really do it. To even make this a match, we really need to equalize the power of the two verses and decide based off that.

In the Demonbane series, Azathoth is the lynchpin of the omniverse, whose awakening would destroy it all. Even Demonbane cannot resist this and no matter how far above infinity he ascends he realizes he would get destroyed (along with all other humans) and as such seals a SLEEPING Azathoth (and his court). Hence, Demonbane is NOT capable of solo-ing his own verse.

On the other hand, TOAA, unlike Azazthoth, is not the lynchpin of his omniverse but rather a being above the sum total of it. Effectively, this means that TOAA can ALWAYS 1v1 his entire verse. It is explicit in his being.

Based on that, with verses equalized, it is not a contest. TOAA wins.
 
I understand your viewpoint in stating we cannot compare verses so directly, however that in itself would also provide limits to the type of discussions that one can have.

Take someone like the Lord of Nightmares for example who could solo her own verse easily but is rated at low tier tier 1-B. What makes her tier 1-B but not tier 0?

The difference I believe is the lack of other tier 1 characters. As she does not transcend any tier 1 characters, we cannot consider her tier 0 despite having her described as potentially omnipotent.

That logic is also flawed when we apply this to weaker verses such as Naruto or One piece.

Naruto and Sasuke together could probably solo their own verse, but they are far from omnipotent.

That's why I don't think we can equalize the verses in such a manner, otherwise the living tribunal would be tier 1-A at the very least because he is the second or third most powerful being in Marvel.
 
When I say verse I mean everything. All of it. Of course, there are going to be exceptions for very small or very large verses. But generally they all are based off of our own universe.
 
Yes, I know, someone like the Lord of Nightmares from slayers could easily solo her own verse, but I don't think we can set that as a bases as she is low 1-B.

She can do it but she isn't tier 0.
 
She's not any tier, she's unknown because we don't know if she touches an omniverse yet. We know TOAA does and so does Demonbane.
 
The point I wanted to point out is that even if one solo's one's verse it or can complete rewrite their universe or any number of universes does not mean they are automatically tier 0.

Madoka and Homura are many tiers ahead of everyone else in the series, but they are tier 2 instead of tier 0.

Homura rewrote the entire universe by using Madoka's power who is a multiversal being.

As for Lord of Knightmares, it says likely tier high 1-C to low 1-B as well as unknown.
 
But that's my point. They can't touch their omniverse with their own ability.
 
The omniverse isn't clearly defined within vs. battle. I believe I saw an article about it before. One definition involves all of fiction and reality, but obviously fictional characters cannot directly affect real life.

The other states the omniverse is 12 dimensions which is the scientific term. Thus since neither definition worked, the term was not used.

So what exactly do you mean by the omniverse?
 
@Aura I think you can stop posting that quote every single time xD

Also, do you have like a link or something to the Presence dying?
 
well if your interested

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Presence

His tier is 1-B, which is lower than Tier 0, he had lost to beyonder apparently. It doesn't directly state the prescence was killed, however apparently in one of the cannon comics he was killed.

Strangely enough the

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Presence_(New_Earth)

says he's omnipotent despite that. I suppose they mean omnipotent in the sense of nigh-omnipotent as oppose to absolute.

I apologize but I'm not a complete expert on the matter of the presence.
 
The DC Comics Database also lists Prime as nigh-omnipotent IIRC so I don't tend to go to it for quick check-ups on stats

I think he's 1-B because of his own statements about his limits and such
 
Yes, but I also heard somewhere that he had apparently died. Sorry, if I don't have a direct source though, I suppose you could start a discussion on the Presence talk page.
 
The Everlasting said:
He's saying it's the same thing because, more often than not, the only thing restricting a High 1-A from 0 is there already being a 0.

As it stands, The-One-Above-All is 0, while EGD is High 1-A. He wins by default and you can't say otherwise unless the page suddenly changes.
Click to expand...
The Everlasting is correct. If The Creator did not exist, we would likely rate Featherine Augustus Aurora as tier 0, or so I think in any case.

However, as I mentioned earlier, things are suddenly changing with Marvel's definitions of an Omniverse, so we may have to change TOAA's tier to Unknown within the near future.
 
tbh toaa and fulkrum shud not be allowed in any vs match


no feats

no idea of power at for these 2
 
Also, regarding various other questions that have popped up:

We generally don't use the Omniverse term due to all of the contradictions and lack of logic regarding the definition. The OAA is a special case because he was explicitly stated to have created the omniverse within the Marvel handbooks, and it was here defined (although technically likely just by the interns who write the handbooks) as all of fiction and reality combined. Ridiculous, yes, but it was all that we had to go by.

Pre-Retcon Beyonder was conceived before the One Above All, and they are part of different pre- and post-retcon continuities. If you wish to understand how higher dimensions work, check out this page.

The Presence was killed in last month's Lucifer comicbook, and we only have Lucifer and Michael to scale him by.

Tier 0's still have to fulfill our requirements, not just be the supreme being of a certain franchise capable of creating universes and the like.
 
hmm, @ant if Marvel are changing the term of a omniverse, would it be acceptable to have something along the lines of a pre retcon TOAA, and post retcon?
 
Not necessary. The TOAA barely has any feats besides being a vaguely defined author god that looks like Jack Kirby.
 
@LordAizenSama No, I think that we will have to place the entity at Unknown instead. However, I have asked Tom Brevoort about this, and hope that he will reply.
 
Antvasima said:
However, I have asked Tom Brevoort about this, and hope that he will reply.
Click to expand...
Ask him how he is able to handle power creeping and power seeping. I'd like to know that.
 
I'm not a Marvel's expert. But didtn LK was once tell us to stay out of this TOAA's downgrade ???
 
No, I do not think that Lord Kavpeny ever said such a thing. Or at least not that I have seen.
 
Well, he did once clarify why the OAA was rated as tier 0, which is the basis for my explanation above, but given that Marvel is changing the definition of an omniverse, I do not think that this is true anymore. I will probably have to check with him to make sure before placing the character at Unknown though.
 
Haiz... well then, good luck Ant. Hope you will get the answer from Tom

Also, sorry, i was scared that people will say we are downgrading the Comic Book character and biased on the Anime Character. Like what their said in this conversatio
 
Well, we cannot care what other people say on the Internet.

I am far more well-acquainted with Marvel than I am with most anime, which is the reason why I have much better ability to evaluate it than franchises that I know nearly nothing about, and we rate Lovecraft's canon, which I strongly dislike, higher than almost anything else in the wiki, so it isn't like I am trying to be biased.
 
Antvasima said:
@LordAizenSama No, I think that we will have to place the entity at Unknown instead. However, I have asked Tom Brevoort about this, and hope that he will reply.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately in my experience with Brevoort he either doesn't reply or just says "they are very powerful"

Unless you're talking about the definition of omniverse in which case idk
 
I asked him about the Omniverse definition.
 
TOAA how can you kill or defeat someone who is either the Author of the Marvel Universe meaning is not deafetable or its the one from the Spiderman Series where he was seen being Opnimpetent and he created the Marvel Universe made TLT and is above him so therefore Tier - 0 and Demon Bane is only Tier - 1 the Question would be how many seconds can Bane last to against him.
 
Hmm, so far with all the information I have gathered I have come to this conclusion.

If The One Above All is truly omnipotent and not just questionably omnipotent (even though this cannot be proven and some people think the definition of the omniverse in marvel is going to change) then TOAA would defeat Demonbane.

However since the definition of Tier 0 is not Truly omnipotent but being extremely powerful compared to the rest of their fiction and shows no limitations (but still not omnipotent because it's impossible to prove), if we are going with feats alone with TOAA, I think Demonbane may win here.

I suppose it's a matter of interpreting whether or not TOAA is truly omnipotent, and whether or not having no limitations in one's fiction automatically places him above another nearly omnipotent character in another fiction who's only reason for not being tier 0 is due to an even greater omnipotent within the same fiction.

 
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