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Kumagawa Vs Giorno Giovana

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Firephoenixearl

Firephoenixearl

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I think this was made before but i don't see it on either of their profiles. So here we go:

Kumagawa:
Kumagawa
[Why bother? Your win will "never happen"]


Giorno Giovana:
Giorno Giovanna
It's ok, i'll reset your loss to 0 when we'r done.


Both Bloodlusted

Both at their peak

Speed equalized

Nothingness vs 0 Let's see who takes this.
 
For once, I think this thread is rather interesting as both combatants' main abilities are very similar (aka causality manipulation based on negating cause and effect).

So I will keep a watch on this thread.
 
1. Who would have thought my random bump would have worked? lol

2. Let's get this party started since no one wants to start:

So let's go over what GER can do:

1. Death Loop (via repeat of cause and effect)

2. Will Power reset (does Kumagawa have will power? xD)

3. Regen.

Kumagawa:

1. Conceptual Erasure

2. Regen (passive)

3. Strong Power Null
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Bfr. On a multiversal scale also. And damage deflection although may not be decent enough obviously.
Click to expand...
Technically his bfr is only on a universal scale since he sends his opponents universe after universe, not multiverse after universe.
 
Maybe? His range definitely extends past a universe. His range obviously multiversal from himself at least.
 
But what's stopping Kumagawa from erasing the death loop? Oh, right. GER zeroing that erasure. But then what's stopping Kumagawa from erasing that zeroing.

My frontal lobe hurts.
 
This is dead af. Let's go with the arguing:

First which of Giorno's tactics are good here:

Death Loop (worthless due to All Fiction)

Dmg reset (it's not rly gonna have any use in this matchup since Kumagawa doesn't rly attack)

Will power manip (a "harder to land" weaker version of Bookmaker, though still pretty good)

Kumagawa:

Bookmaker (insta-win condition)

All Fiction (also 1 shots)
 
Vizorus69 said:
But what's stopping Kumagawa from erasing the death loop? Oh, right. GER zeroing that erasure. But then what's stopping Kumagawa from erasing that zeroing.
My frontal lobe hurts.
Click to expand...
GER is not zeroing the erasure.

It goes like this: GER kills, Death Loops, All Fiction brings back.
 
Vizorus69 said:
But couldn't All-Fiction be turn back to zero by GER?
Click to expand...
GER turing reality the way it was? I doubt GER > All Fiction in terms of AP.

But even then, All Fiction erases GER as a whole.
 
How is Giorno's death loop worthless because of All Fiction? It just allows him to deny aspects of reality. So Giorno puts him in a loop, he denies the dying, and than him denying it gets reset thanks to GER, putting him back into the loop. He can deny it again but he'll only just get put into the loop again. And since Diavolo's death loop was to last forever, so would Misogi's.

So I believe Giorno would win, on the grounds that even if he uses All Fiction to escape Giorno's death loop, GER would just reset him back to the death loop state, keeping him in a "larger" loop.
 
Think of this:

Giorno's death loop works by repeating cause and effect over and over. All Fiction works by erasing cause and effect. So when Kumagawa dies, the loop won't happen cus the cause and effect won't exist (never existed) so they can't be repeated. That's the case.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Think of this:
Giorno's death loop works by repeating cause and effect over and over. All Fiction works by erasing cause and effect. So when Kumagawa dies, the loop won't happen cus the cause and effect won't exist (never existed) so they can't be repeated. That's the case.
Click to expand...
The ability is called "Zero Reset" for a reason, not because it loops cause and effect directly, (it ends up doing that anyway) but because it continually puts it into a state of "0"/ a previous state. The end result is a loop of cause and effect, though that is an unintentional consequence of the ability.

So All Fiction erases the aspect of "cause and effect", how does that help him against Giorno, and what's stopping GER from reverting his erasure?

What's also stopping Giorno from setting his willpower to "0" as well? Wouldn't that just end the fight?

We should also assume Giorno is getting the first action off in this fight, Misogi is only the speed of light meanwhile Golden Experience is MFTL+ and GER is straight up has Infinite speeds.
 
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