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Creating an Official one-shot page?

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DMUA

DMUA

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As with Stomp Threads, AP stomps usually change depending on who you ask.

We should make an official "One Shot" Page to go with our Speed Blitz page.

It should look something like this:

"A one-shot is when a character is able to instantly incapacitate or kill an opponent with a single blow. They usually need an Attack Potency of more than 5 Times the opponent's durability to do so.

When a fighter is able to One Shot his opponent, it is considered what is known as an AP Stomp (Stomp linking to the Stomp page that we should eventually make), unless the opponent has some way to overcome the opponent's superior AP via hax abilities. A great example of this is Sans, who can stalemate Chara despite their immense AP difference due to the fact he is able to dodge all of Chara's attacks and still damage him via durability negation in KR."

What needs to be discussed:

  • Should this actually be a page?
  • The definite value of a One-Shoting attack
 
There.... Isn't?

huh.
 
Pretty sure a staff said it was at least 2x to one shot...Although i dont even remeber who said that so...
 
Bre8k said:
Pretty sure a staff said it was at least 2x to one shot...Although i dont even remeber who said that so...
Click to expand...
2x isn't nearly enough.

Also this isn't a hard-and-fast rule, and the Staff have different opinions on what consitutes a one-shot. 10x would hurt a lot and maybe incapacitate, but would it one-shot? Probably not. A strong punch is about 100 joules, but humans can survive a hit of a similar surface area that carried 1000 joules.
 
Also. Define "One shot"

Two people of the same AP and Dura can still one shot eachother if one decapitated the other
 
As in, you punch someone and they are instantly incaped or killed.
 
Well, that depends, a punch of 1000 joules in the head would definitely kill a normal human.
 
Hmm... Let's say it's not a precise shot to any vital organs nor the head, they just punch them in the chest.
 
Problem is, one-shotting IRL is a bit different from how fiction usually shows one-shotting, and even that is different how people one-shot in VS debating.

IRL, a 50.000 joule strike to your foot will likely obliterate it, but unless you die from bleed, you will live. Probably. In counterpart, a 100 joule punch to the right place at the right time (Pressure point strikes) can easily kill someone.

In fiction, it varies. I don't remember the manga exactly, but there was this manga where a character killed another by punching their hand so hard the entire body stopped functioning. Or something, dunno.

In VSdebating it is generally treated as if the character would instakill no matter where or how he struck.
 
A 50,000 joules hit to the foot wouldn't just obliterate the foot; the force of that attack would rip the fit apart so quickly that it would destroy the leg with it. Bullets with enough energy can rip someone's chest apart, despite the area hit being small.

With enough energy you could tap someone's toe and their entire body would be obliterated.
 
You definitely won't be surviving a nuke to the foot for instance. I can say with certainty that a nuke can definitely oneshot a human.
 
Jobbo said:
You definitely won't be surviving a nuke to the foot for instance. I can say with certainty that a nuke can definitely oneshot a human.
Click to expand...
Because of the AOE of the explosion. Not just the energy.

@Assalt

Hmmm, yeah, that's true.
 
Jobbo said:
The AoE is a consequence of the energy, they're proportional.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The process is just as important. Nukes explode not only because of the energy, but because of the process as well. A good example of that, although different from how nukes work, are small firecrackers (Not talking about M-80s or long/big firecrackers). They explode, but the force that they pack are hardly close to a particularly strong punch. Yet said punches do not cause explosions.
 
Jobbo said:
The AoE is a consequence of the energy, they're proportional.
Click to expand...
Pretty incorrect, actually.

Process in which the event happens matters even without looking at advanced stuff like energy density.

Edit: Semi-ninjaed by Eliminator
 
I don't see how that's relevant to my point at all. Naturally explosions and punches are different, but they both increase their AoE when you put in more energy. If you hit someone at 99% of the speed of light the shockwave would completely obliterate them and you'd probably also trigger nuclear fusion.
 
Jobbo said:
I don't see how that's relevant to my point at all. Naturally explosions and punches are different, but they both increase their AoE when you put in more energy. If you hit someone at 99% of the speed of light the shockwave would completely obliterate them and you'd probably also trigger nuclear fusion.
Click to expand...
That is true, but there is no way to generalize explosion size. Smaller, but more powerful explosion do exist in contrast to larger, but weaker explosions.

But I get your point.

However, I meant to talk about more specific scenarios. I mean, depending on how and when you hit someone, even a 200 joules punch can kill someone who otherwise could endure 1000+ joules.
 
It really depends on case by case scenario. Most characters technically have durability greater than other AP; It's not like characters suddenly collapse after one use of their strongest attack. It also really depends if one-shot refers to instant death or just a knock out. Most Normal humans technically have Street level durability skeletons. And even falls calc'd at Street level don't automatically break legs. But getting punched in the face or the chest is a different story. And while normals humans still get hurt by other normal humans, they don't oneshot each other even if punched in the most fragile spots.

A 10-A character can easily knock a 10-B character unconscious with one punch, but the energy required to kill a 10-B character in one punch would be somewhere in the 9-C department. And again, that's assuming it's somewhere like the face or chest.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
-snip-
Click to expand...
And as mentioned before, if you strike a pressure point, even a 200 joule blow could have some serious consequences to people with 9-C durability.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It also really depends if one-shot refers to instant death or just a knock out.
Click to expand...
DMUA said:
"A one-shot is when a character is able to instantly incapacitate or kill an opponent with a single blow. They usually need an Attack Potency of more than 5 Times the opponent's durability to do so."
Click to expand...
 
I don't think we really need an official page solely for deciding one shots, but rather a guidelines page for determining stomps Vs Decisive wins. It can conclude examples of stomps via oneshots, blitzing, or hax, as well as a both one each end that makes it more decisive rather than stompy.
 
Should I bump this? Well, I shall.
 
You can ask Reppuzan to comment here.
 
I personally think one-shotting is to subjective to justify a page. It's more of a variable than speedblitzing. That said, I can attempt to do one, using the speedblitz page as a guide.
 
The problem is what would qualify as a one-shot.

To me, this is more common sense.

If one character has an AP rating that's 100x another one, it's probably going to be a one-shot unless the weaker character has some serious defensive hax.
 
You should preferably start a thread in the staff forum for input regarding improvements before we consider applying this blog as an official standard.
 
This does seem like a case by case scenario IMO and really depends. It's not just Character A AP divided by Character B durability, but where the character is hit is also a factor. Plus, most characters have durability that's technically higher than their Attack Potency depending on how you look at it. There's also the difference between durability and stamina to consider. Some characters, while having great survivability, are susceptible to chip damage, whereas there do also exist characters who seem to be either one-shotted, or take no damage at all.

Also, Attack Potency/Durability isn't 100% linear, like 10 consecutive hits with X joules energy isn't quite the same as a single 10X Joule attack also. Staff forum also might be a good idea.
 
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