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07th Expansion/When They Cry/Umineko revision help needed

Antvasima

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Hello.

DarkLK has requested help with revising the 07th Expansion/When They Cry/Umineko pages.

Azathoth already intends to help out (and TheMightyRegulator used to do so before he left the wiki), but he has told DarkLK that he is currently too busy, given his commitment to organising the current staff recruitment drive.

This will likely be a very long process of listening to DarkLK's periodical explanations, and then analyzing and systematizing it in a way that is more easily understood by others, specifically the regular visitors to our profiles.

Umineko is one of our most important franchises, given that it (and the Cthulhu Mythos) is what our tiering system is primarily built on, and the profiles definitely need to be updated and improved, so competent and intelligent help would be very appreciated.

It is an advantage if you are familiar with Umineko, and are prepared for the fact that there will be a lot of Japanese text (since DarkLK does not have English scans, and translations lose a lot of important information).

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Sorry if this is detailing but...how are our tiering systems based off of Umineko? The profiles only take up like, five subtiers out of the dozens we have. It seems like even Dragon Ball has more influence.
 
The real cal howard said:
Sorry if this is detailing but...how are our tiering systems based off of Umineko? The profiles only take up like, five subtiers out of the dozens we have. It seems like even Dragon Ball has more influence.
Click to expand...
I think he means our upper tiers, considering High 1-A and 0 are strictly hierarchy based, and how we treat geometric dimensions as being infinitely superior to the last one.

10-C to 3-A seem pretty darn straightforward, and compose the majority of profiles.
 
@Azathoth

Okay. No problem at all.

@Cal

Well, the higher tiers are built on similar concepts of increasing dimensions and composite hierarchies of differences between fiction and reality. Given that DarkLK created our system, and is so extremely knowledgeable about Umineko, I assumed that he took a lot of inspiration from it. However, I may have misunderstood.
 
I know a fair amount of both series. Seen Higurashi + Umineko animes. Own the visual novels (somewhere, at least their official translations).

I put more emphasis on Higurashi admitedly, but I can dabble with the scans of both series. (My japanese is super limited)

Although the translations both official and unofficial can be accurate/mostly so, to just downright laughable.

Following. I will keep up with this regularly after I submit my midterm on wednesday.
 
I'm happy to help though I have not yet finished Higurashi
 
Not necessarily good at analyzing power structure and abilites myself, but I too am willing to help in any way: own official english EPS 1-8 and some of the official english manga. Also Ougon Musou Kyou but I'm not so sure about it's content and canon as it's just fluff material
 
Well, perhaps I should sit this out until I finish Higurashi and can read Higanbana, though I think I know enough about the subject matter. And I'll be busy for the next few days.
 
Scarletmoon56 said:
Also Ougon Musou Kyou but I'm not so sure about it's content and canon as it's just fluff material
Click to expand...
It's is written by Ryukishi07. This is basically no different from Tsubasa, Hane or Purple Logic.
 
DarkLK said:
It's is written by Ryukishi07. This is basically no different from Tsubasa, Hane or Purple Logic.
Click to expand...
After this, do you think it would be unfair to make a verse for the entire Ryukishi verse, similar to how we handle masadaverse?
 
In fact, Higanbana is painfully useful to understand the general mechanics of souls and the supernatural world.
 
I could help with Umineko since i'm currently researching it, and i'm making a blog of it (though, it'll MAYBE contain spoilers about who's the culprit of the games, and all the different and various theories, as well as explaning the ending, but maybe i won'd write all that stuff).

The main thing is that everyone (except the humans from the Futue World, like the school girls from Ange's school and a few more) will be 1-A in their Meta-World form.

There would also be a MASSIVE Piece-characters upgrade. I saw that the pieces are currently 9-B, though i found 6-A and 5-C feats for them.

Also, everyone should get another key: Piece-characters's peak power. ^Why that, you may ask? Well, because in EP6, the pieces reached tremendous feats.

Like Shannon and Kanon beating a non-serious Lady MARIA. (though it should be noted that Lady MARIA admitted her defeat without fighting back, but the mere fact that Shannon and Kanon were able to damage her is already extraordinary).

^Becaue of that, Shannon and Kanon as pieces will be 1-B at their peak. That means that we also have to change Lady MARIA's tier, since her peak power as a piece is only Low 1-B, but since i found evidence that there are more higher-dimensions in the very gameboard (Beato's Territory), Lady MARIA should get an upgrade, since she not only created an hyperverse-sized gameboard in her subconscious, but also created Mariage Sorceriere with Beato, and Mariage Sorceriere is comparable to Beato's Cat Box.


George should also get a 1-B tier, since he defated a serious Eva-Beatrice, who's basically a weaker Beatrice and has ALL the abilities of the latter.

Anyway, yeah, Umineko needs a BIG revision.
 
Scarletmoon56 said:
Not necessarily good at analyzing power structure and abilites myself, but I too am willing to help in any way: own official english EPS 1-8 and some of the official english manga. Also Ougon Musou Kyou but I'm not so sure about it's content and canon as it's just fluff material
Click to expand...
Ougon is made by 7th Expanson itself, so it is canon. But the feats aren't, since if we are going to trust it, then Black Battler > Featherine, and that is...no, just no.

Think about it like Smash Brothers: the abilities are canon, but the feats aren't.
 
But the feats aren't, since if we are going to trust it, then Black Battler > Featherine, and that is...no, just no.

Um ... What? What are you talking about?
 
I would gladly offer my help here, but my knowledge beyond umineko and higurashi is limited. I did planned to read Higabana but coudnt find a translated version >.> If someone could provide me a translated version then i would be grateful.
 
DarkLK said:
But the feats aren't, since if we are going to trust it, then Black Battler > Featherine, and that is...no, just no.
Um ... What? What are you talking about?
Click to expand...
In Ougon (Umineko's fighting game) there was a statement that compared Black Battler's power to Featherine's.

That is why i said that we shouldn't take the feats from that game. It's basically like a Smash Bros anyway.
 
ArceusBowser44 said:
In Ougon (Umineko's fighting game) there was a statement that compared Black Battler's power to Featherine's.
Click to expand...
When and where it was said?
 
IDK, Nia told me that. But it is probably in an episode of the gameplay.

IIRC, it was stated that in Golden Fantasia, the episode featuring Shannon and Black Battler.
 
Shannon and Black Battler route it's just a story about how Batler and Yasu killed all the people on the island. There was not even a reason to mention Featherine.
 
Then i'm wrong.

Though it was stated that Black Battler is comparable to Featherine somewhere, or else Nia wouldn't have made such a statement.

But still, that statement can't be used, and for obvious reasons too.
 
Black Battler once threatened Hachijo Tohya. But:

  • This is not a threat of power.
  • This Hachijo Tohya is not Featherine, but future Battler himself. That is, it's just an ordinary person. Even Virgilia can make this Hachijo Tohya her piece.
  • It was in Umineko Hane, not in Ougon.
 
No, i'm not talking about Umineko Hane, i know that in Hane Black Battler threatened Tohya, but like you said, Tohya is the future version of Battler that appeared in EP 8 ???.

I'm talking about Ougon. Nia told me that in Ougon Black Battler was compared to Featherine, but i don't know when he was compared to her.
 
Perhaps we should try to return to the main topic?
 
I do not know what it is about. I do not like strange rumors. And the more so I will not draw any conclusions based on these rumors.
 
I'm knowledgeable and willing to help out. I've done some research into what Dark and TMR discussed while he was on the wiki.

I also have some suggestions, and I'll try to compile those together.
 
Thank you to everybody who have offered to help out.
 
I've read the official translations of both the mangas and visual novels of Higurashi and Umineko. I'm not fluent in Japanese yet so that would be pretty difficult. I can give imput if it is needed.
 
We likely need an updated explanation blog as well.
 
So, I would like to discuss the format of the work. Periodically, I will provide some information about general cosmology and metaphysics. And I need a person who will systematize it and create blog entries. These people should be prepared to explain the information to other users.
 
DarkLK said:
So, I would like to discuss the format of the work. Periodically, I will provide some information about general cosmology and metaphysics. And I need a person who will systematize it and create blog entries. These people should be prepared to explain the information to other users.
Click to expand...
I have made blogs before and I do love to write, this is something I can do.

Just direct me and I will write it.

I think the general cosmology should be sorted out now if it hasnt already (gonna read through above)
 
No, I'll start with basic trivia before embarking on global cosmology.

  • Quantum mechanics
  • Catboxes
  • Observation and Observers
  • Soul
  • Spirit and Heart
  • Inner worlds
  • Global structure of a separate world
  • Etc.
 
DarkLK said:
No, I'll start with basic trivia before embarking on global cosmology.
  • Quantum mechanics
  • Catboxes
  • Observation and Observers
  • Soul
  • Spirit and Heart
  • Inner worlds
  • Global structure of a separate world
  • Etc.
Click to expand...
In that order? Well, some of this has more intrinsic value for the verse as a whole then others, so we should emphasize on those that are more thematic then those just because (Catboxes seems to be iirc the least important of the ones listed, or one of them imo)

Or do you mean for us/wiki in general?
 
Not necessarily in this order. But something like this. The problem is that the themes are closely intertwined with each other.

KinkiestSins said:
Catboxes seems to be iirc the least important of the ones listed, or one of them imo
Click to expand...
Catboxes is one of the most fundamental things...
 
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