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Bayonetta Revisions

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ShieldsPlus

ShieldsPlus

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Terminology:

Auditios: Four Cardinal Virtues (Fortitudo, Temperantia, Iustitia, Sapientia)

Sequi: Weaker versions of Auditios (Courage, Temperance, Justice, Prudence)

Notable Keys

Bayonetta:

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Defeated Fortitudo, Temperantia, Iustitia, and Sapientia, Defeated Father Balder, who casually killed Gomorrah and Scolopendra), At least Planet level with summons (Her weaker summons can easily tear apart Auditos, Hekatoncheir pummeled a weakened Temperantia to death)

Fortitudo

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Comparable to Temperantia, On par with Bayonetta's Infernal Demon Labolas, Superior to any normal Angel, including Resplendence, which is the angelic equivalent of Insidious, Valiance, which can cleave a, Insicous in two with casual ease, Joy, which can transform into a near perfect copy of Bayonetta, and Gracious & Glorious, who can destroy the world with a small fraction of their power)

Temperantia: "When the true power of the virtue of Temperance is laid upon our world, it is said to come as a tornado, capable of swallowing an entire country."

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Fought on par with Madama Butterfly, Superior to any normal Angel, including Resplendence, which is the angelic equivalent of Insidious, Valiance, which can cleave a, Insidious in two with casual ease, Joy, which can transform into a near perfect copy of Bayonetta, and Gracious & Glorious, who can destroy the world with a small fraction of their power)

Madama Butterfly

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Casually shattered a meteor thrown by Loptr with a headbutt, Fought and defeated Temperantia, Ripped out one of Insidious' eyes, Can easily kill high-ranking Angels like Glamor and Valiance)

Iustitia

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Comparable to Temperantia, Superior to any normal Angel, including Resplendence, which is the angelic equivalent of Insidious, Valiance, which can cleave a Insicous in two with casual ease, Joy, which can transform into a near perfect copy of Bayonetta, and Gracious & Glorious, who can destroy the world with a small fraction of their power)

Sapientia

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Comparable to Temperantia, On par with Bayonetta's Infernal Demon Hydra, Superior to any normal Angel, including Resplendence, which is the angelic equivalent of Insidious, Valiance, which can cleave a, Insicous in two with casual ease, Joy, which can transform into a near perfect copy of Bayonetta, and Gracious & Glorious, who can destroy the world with a small fraction of their power)

Father Balder

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Casually broke Gomorrah's neck and tore Scolopendra to pieces, on par with Bayonetta), At least Planet level with summons (Can summon the Four Cardinal Virtues, Temperantia fought on par with Madama Butterfly)

Gomorrah

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Can rip weaker Angels such as Beloved and Belief to pieces with casual ease, Killed Jeanne)

Scolopendra: "A vile centipede hailing from Frejentonta, a river of boiling blood in the depths of Inferno, rumors speak of its body exceeding ten kilometers in length. Moving unlike anything its size, its deftness allows it to wrap around and constrict its prey in the blink of an eye."

Hekatoncheir "A giant endowed with six fearsome arms capable of pulverizing mountains, those unfortunate enough to fall underfoot of the demon are subject to days-long violent earthquakes. Lacking knowledge, but brimming with brutality, it is said that even the most powerful of conjurers should take heed of the danger this beast presents."

Insidious

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (The demonic equivalent of Resplendence, Temporarily matched Loki in power)

Loki

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Can open the Gates of Hell through sheer force, Overpowered an Insidious, Should be equally as powerful as Young Loptr)

Young Loptr:

Attack Potency: Planet level (Killed Rosa)

Rosa

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Can seriously damage Fortitudo and Temperantia), higher with Umbran Armor, At least Planet level with summons (Her weaker summons can easily tear apart Auditos, Hekatoncheir is stated to have enough power to destroy mountains)

Evaluations
So normal angels (third sphere) are so irrelevant they don't have any stats other than speed on their profile, so using them as a justification for planet level is redundant.

Temperantia seems to be the main link across all the 5-B keys, so let's look there.

  • "When the true power of the virtue of Temperance is laid upon our world, it is said to come as a tornado, capable of swallowing an entire country."
  • So Temperantia's true power is comparable to a tornado that can swallow an entire country. I assume this means a literal country-wide tornado. This would require a calc and is not 5-B. Even worse if this means a tornado that could eventually destroy a whole country.
  • It also fought Madama Butterfly, who has headbutt a meteor thrown by Loptr which definitely doesn't produce 5-B results.
  • Loki opened the gates of hell with sheer force, but I'm not sure if that's something that can be quantified, nor warrant 5-B AP.
  • For the justification of a 5-B rating, a calculation, or a feat that displays the destruction of a planet, or anything that provides a yield comparable to the destruction of an Earth-sized planet is required. The destruction of a world usually refers to the destruction of the area covering the planet's surface, and not the entirety of the planet itself.
Pretty much all the 5-B scaling comes from others who have fought Temperantia (and almost everyone in one way or another is comparable to it apparently). Even demons such as Hekatoncheir are scaled to planet level, but have statements that put it at mountain level, and Temperantia is only possibly country level, likely higher, depending on the interpretation of the feat.

Here are some extras that are added to this revision thread.

Resplendence

  • "Forged by divine hands using the brilliance of the sun itself, Resplendence resides in the First Sphere class Thrones, ranked third in the angelic hierarchy. Resplendence's radiant form can overturn the laws of nature, turning night to day as it simply peers over the horizon. Among those who gaze into its luminous presence, the pious weep and bow before it, while it sears the eyes of those who lack faith, throwing to the ground in submission"
Braves

  • "It can be said that Braves are capable of carrying God upon their shoulders. Moving in groups of three, each Brave wears the halo of the Second Sphere Powers upon its head; however when necessary, Braves can combine three of their bodies into one true form, a First Sphere Cherubim. Boasting the most brute strength of all the inhabitants of Paradiso, an unknown number of evils have faced judgment at the hands of Braves."
Valiance

  • "Valiance is a First Sphere Cherub considered particularly ascendant as a spiritual being even among the other angels. Physical shape means little to the angels of this rank; they exist in a metaphysical form that demonstrates the majesty of God. The most ambitious and brave of the Cherubim, there are some sources that believe Valiance first arrived on Earth thousands of years ago, riding a comet of God's wrath that destroyed everything in its way. Valiance's sword, the Valiantium Blade, is said to have the power to cut in two anything in Paradiso or Inferno, and is prophesied to one day assist a team of over a hundred heroes in saving humanity from an invading evil."
Joys

  • "Joys are members of the Seraphim class within the angelic hierarchy's First Sphere. These beings have broken free of any physical conception of form and have become truly spiritual. Their body is as free as a flowing river, and it takes shape only on a temporary basis. Joys may take the shape of the human feminine form, but can also shapeshift, or even separate into multiple sentient forms at will."
shapeshifting =/= equal power of the target
Gracious and glorious "destory the world"

  • "Within the nine ranks of the angelic hierarchy, the highest ranking Seraphim are charged with governing the love and zeal of The Creator. The pure white armored Gracious and the black armor-clad Glorious are often sighted in pairs; however, their existence itself remains legend, subject to rumors of varied veracity. Supposedly gifted with incredible god-like powers there are no records of Gracious or Glorious appearing on the battlefield of evil; however, it is said this is because a mere taste of their power is enough to destroy the world, devastating all its path - both the record and the record-keeper."
 
The 5-B scaling comes from Gracious and Glorious, who can destroy the planet with a fraction of their power, as well as Base Rodin who prevented the planet from being destroyed. Its pretty easy to understand, and even Matt agreed with tese ratings.
 
Calcs could be useful for a lot of these feats, especially pulverizing mountains and the storm calcs, I could do those. :^)
 
Basically there's nothing wrong with their ratings, you just didnt bother to look
 
"it is said this is because a mere taste of their power is enough to destroy the world, devastating all its path"

They say that they can destroy the world, but not necessarily the planet itself.

The world only refers to a planet's surface, not the planet itself.
 
Khristis said:
"it is said this is because a mere taste of their power is enough to destroy the world, devastating all its path"
They say that they can destroy the world, but not necessarily the planet itself.

The world only refers to a planet's surface, not the planet itself.
Click to expand...
And Rodin prevented the entire planet from being destroyed. Again, there's nothing wrong with the ratings, you literally just neglected to look
 
Considering the amount this user has wrote and the amount of things he brought up I'd say it's good. But that's just my opinion, just as how you disagree. Respecting the opinions of other's would be nice.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
Considering the amount this user has wrote and the amount of things he brought up I'd say it's good. But that's just my opinion, just as how you disagree. Respecting the opinions of other's would be nice.
Click to expand...
Size =/= quality
 
The Everlasting said:
Knight, don't act like the size of the size of a post is actually indicitive of its quality.
Click to expand...

Ever, don't act like i didn't read the entire post. I'd appreciate if you didn't automatically assume I'm agreeing just because of the length of the post. Thank you. :)
 
"And Rodin prevented the entire planet from being destroyed. Again, there's nothing wrong with the ratings, you literally just neglected to look"

And where does Rodin showcase that he saved an entire planet from being completely destroyed?

Video evidence would be appreciated.

"Generalizing statement that's not always true."

The way that the feat is worded here speaks volumes about the scale of destruction regarding this feat.
 
The Everlasting said:
The main focus of your post was "he wrote a lot and brought up a lot of things".
Click to expand...


Not really the main point of my post but hey you can think whatever you want buddy.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
Considering the amount this user has wrote and the amount of things he brought up I'd say it's good. But that's just my opinion, just as how you disagree. Respecting the opinions of other's would be nice.
Click to expand...
What else did you bring up here, then?
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Knight, again, enough with the condescending comments
Click to expand...


Enlighten me how I'm being condescending? I'm not being condescending in the slightest. It'd be nice if you didn't make false accusations.
 
So calling someone buddy is now condescending Gargoyle? If that's the case than you should be the last user here talking.
 
Buddy, look at the wording and seriously ask yourself it isn't.

I don't claim to not be condescending, I am on occasion.
 
In any case, Rodin would also scale to Madama Butterfly, who should be comparable to Temperantia in terms of power. Threatening the world, or destroying the world does not automatically guarantee a Planet level rating, unless it is explicitly shown that a planet is being destroyed. So far, there is insufficient evidence of this.

So far, I do not see any evidence of a Planet busting feat from either Madama Butterfly, or from Loptr, or even from Rosa.
 
Khristis said:
So far, I do not see any evidence of a Planet busting feat from either Madama Butterfly, or from Loptr, or even from Rosa.
Click to expand...
Madama Butterfly defeated Temperantia and is superior to almost any other Demon Bayo can summon, severely damaged a demon that matched Loki in power, and can casually stomp Angels on the level of Gracious and Glorious

Loptr literally killed Rosa with a single, casual attack

Rosa beat the hell out of Temperantia and Fortitudo

All pretty basic scaling feats
 
None of which provide a definite case for a feat equivalent to planetary destruction.
 
So normal angels (third sphere) are so irrelevant they don't have any stats other than speed on their profile, so using them as a justification for planet level is redundant.

Normal Angels are Third, Second, and First Sphere Angels, not sure why you think otherwise. Its not at all redundant when Gracious and Glorious with a fraction of their power can destroy the world.

Shapeshifting =/= equal power of the target

Where was this implied anywhere?

Loki opened the gates of hell with sheer force, but I'm not sure if that's something that can be quantified, nor warrant 5-B AP.

Its literally stated in the Book of Infernal Demons that Resentment can open the Gates through sheer power so yes, its quantifiable.

Basically youre flat out ignoring basic scaling and trying to scale higher level characters based on their own low-end feats when weaker characters that theyre stronger than have better feats. There are two feats that are Planet level, one from Gracious and Glorious and one from Rodin. This was the agreed tier and scaling that multiple staff consulted and agreed on when Bayonetta's tier was being adjusted a few months back.
 
Unless the "world destruction" would only be a threat to life or they never depict the planet on a larger scale, I think we can assume that destroying the world (not civilization or directly surface) should be a planet bust. We have so many characters riding on that assumption at this point and really it takes a lot of nitpicking to try and require someone to say "planet."
 
@Assalt Considering angels MUCH weaker than Gracious and Glorious make a big deal of being able to wipe out civilizations...

Then there's the fodder whose magic can conceal the ocean's true size...
 
Did a calc for the apparent country-wide storm, info on pulverizing mountains can be found here

If these go through sign me the **** up for Cole vs Bayo
 
"I think we can assume that destroying the world (not civilization or directly surface) should be a planet bust"

Will post this definition of the World here.

"'World' distinguishes the entire planet or population from any particular country or region: world affairs pertain not just to one place but to the whole world, and world history is a field of history that examines events from a global (rather than a national or a regional) perspective. Earth, on the other hand, refers to the planet as a physical entity, and distinguishes it from other planets and physical objects."

Considering that the VSB applies the Planet level rating specifically towards characters who are able to planet bust, or greater, it requires that the characters who have that rating directly showcase that they can either bust a planet themselves, or scale to a character who is able to perform such a feat.

It is because the Tiering System here on the Wiki treats the "planet" in question as a physical object; otherwise all statements of planet destruction feats would be labeled as world level, since you guys think that world = planet always.
 
"If these go through sign me the **** up for Cole vs Bayo"

And I am down with that, for the most part. I wonder if Cole has any defense against Time slow though...
 
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