Bayonetta Revisions

[Golden_Void]

"however, it is said this is because a mere taste of their power is enough to destroy the world, devastating all its path - both the record and the record-keeper."

Unless the Earth gets replaced after it gets busted while some person in a distant world records the events and creates legends, this alone is 6-A at best, likely higher at full power.

Also, you yourself said the ocean thing is inadmissible, and reducing civilizations to ash is city level, likely country level (of course this is more likely civilizations being burned to the ground over time given the context and ability of said angel).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it isn't. They can destroy the world, devastating everything. It's at least High 6-A, and only with a fraction of their power. It most likely means the whole world as they are the only angels with such descriptions, standing above all the others with Tier 6 descriptions.

Secondly, why do you bother bringing up what I said in an old video? The power of the angel in question warps and conceals the true expanse of the ocean, which is vastly above the ocean we can see and interact with. Also High 6-A.

Reducing civilizations to ash is from people much weaker than the 5-B ones so what's the point?

 

[Golden_Void]

"The Moon-busting comparison for Dragon Ball is a fallacy because people struggle to do 7-B feats, meanwhile Bayonetta angels have consistent High-end Tier 6 feats."

The gap between low/high 6-A is close to 7000 times, and that's not factoring in the differences for 5-C and low 5-B. The top tier cardinals/demons of the verse are consistently found at 6-C.

It's not really downplaying, considering the only being who's actually beat Temperantia, is stated to be capable of pulverizing mountains, while either of them would literally smite any other angel.

Zamasu and Piccolo is a false equivalence.

 

[LordGinSama]

Hmmmm so apparently the feat is 6-A to High 6-A? Should probably calc that to make sure. However I don't think a casual High 6-A feat justifies a 5-B rating as that skips 2 tiers ( Moon and small planet level ) I'm still inclined to agree with Rice, sorry Matt.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Urbane is explicitly stated to destroy civilizations, if Gracious and Glorious just destroyed civilizations it would say so in their lore.

The feat skips from High 6-A to 5-B because literal fodder have the power to perform a High 6-A feat, whereas G&G can do it with a literal fraction of their power

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@UMR

1. The numerical gap doesn't matter. Or do you think 3-A Battle of Gods Goku is an outlier? Or how about everyone who becomes 3-A via training. Literally going from Baseline 3-B to Baseline 3-A requires a jump of 8.7e23 times in power.

By your logic no one would ever receive any upgrade after a certain Tier.

2. You are downplaying, plain and simple. Yes Temperantia has that statement. And Tournament of Power Final Form Freeza claims that he can planet-bust as if that's a big deal. Guess we downplay everyone to 5-B to High 5-A?

Of course not. Feats and scaling matter a lot more than stuff like this.

Also Zamasu never once planet-busts, but he obviously can planet-bust as he scales even to BoZ Piccolo and Vegeta.

@Knight

The thing is:

1. Casual Tier 6 feats for many angels

2. Angels with High 6-A feats.

3. Strongest angels (Aside from Cardinal Archangels) have statement that they can destroy the world, annihilating everything with a fraction of their power.

This is obviously meant to be the entire planet, as the feats that the lower-ranking angels have would already cover destroying the surface and wiping out all life on Earth. There would be no point in phrasing it so differently if the big impressive feat that makes them more impressive than any angel... Was no different at all.

 

[The_Everlasting]

If you use numerical gaps in tiers to determine consistency then upgrades would almost never happen.

 

[Sera_EX]

I disagree with this whole thing. Agreeing with Matt, Ever, and Weekly here.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Supposedly gifted with incredible god-like powers there are no records of Gracious or Glorious appearing on the battlefield of evil; however, it is said this is because a mere taste of their power is enough to destroy the world, devastating all its path - both the record and the record-keeper."

Are there legends of it's power? If yes, the Earth was never busted. If no, the Earth is probably gone.

Can it destroy the world? Yes- How do people know that? ---> It wasn't busted, High 6-A. No--> Well it's stated to, so go back to yes.

Was it implied to have done at least once? Yes-->See the above No--> You're lying, see yes.

1. You're comparing someone with threatening feats + backed statements by reliable individuals to beings that only have lore.

2. Did Frieza say planet busting was his true power? No he didn't, false equivalence.

Since we're using DB references, Kefla said she felt like she could one-shot a universe. Ignoring the scaling that justifies her tier, we're not going to automatically bump her up to multi-universal just because of the simple reasoning that because she can destroy one without effort, she can destroy more than one with little effort.

I gotta go, I'll be back later.

 

[KamiYasha]

The feat skips from High 6-A to 5-B because literal fodder have the power to perform a High 6-A feat, whereas G&G can do it with a literal fraction of their power

2. Angels with High 6-A feats.

3. Strongest angels (Aside from Cardinal Archangels) have statement that they can destroy the world, annihilating everything with a fraction of their power.

>Statements

I don't think it matter if your High 6-A feats are casual af, it doesn't warrant 5-B tier.

 

[Schnee_One]

Perhaps At least High 6A possibly 5B to settle the issue?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kami When its consistent with another 5-B feat in the verse it does

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Disagree with this. Agreeing with Matt, Weekly and Ever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

My dude, you are incorrect once again. This is the Hierarchy of Laguna, something which is an absolutely correct source, not speculation like the Redgrave's notebook. It is a simple declaration of lore.

Every piece of the Hierarchy explains the capabilities and function of each angel correctely.

Who says it has to be Earth? Who says it is known to the people? Because it isn't. The Hierarchy of Laguna is common knowledge among the angels and sages, it concerns celestial knowledge and not a written doccument of someone on Earth.

1. No, I am comparing the exact same things. Being with not many feats of their own but are backed by reliable scaling and feats of much weaker people, which show how downplaying them to less than planetary is ridiculous.

2. Yes, he did imply that. He boasted about being able to destroy a planet. Meanwhile nothing caps the Cardinal Archangels at 6-C like you insist in the downplaying.

3. Kefla only thinking that she can destroy a universe in a form that rivals or surpasses UI Goku's first outing, which was itself slightly above the Gods of Destruction, actually brings forth the argument that she cannot destroy universes in weaker forms.

If you want to downplay. Or it can simply be a backing statement for the 3-A / Low 2-C stuff.

So yeah, you are debunking yourself.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People love to bring up "Muh statements" "Muh feat jump", while either innocently or deliberatedly ignoring the actual point.

1. Much weaker angels are casually High 6-A.

2. Seraphs have the statement of destroying the world, annihilating everything with a fraction of their power, to illustrate their superiority over lesser angels.

So her's the deal:

If that feat was only High 6-A it wouldn't make them superior to the lesser angels at all.

Thus, it has to be 5-B in order for it to make sense from a lore perspective. You can't be superior from casual High 6-As... By being casually High 6-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People for downgrade: UMR, Khristis, Knight.

Their arguments: Destroyed.

People disagreeing: Myself, WeeklyBattles, Everlasting, Kep, Sera, Dragonmasterxyz, etc.

 

[KamiYasha]

If that feat was only High 6-A it wouldn't make them superior to the lesser angels at all.

Thus, it has to be 5-B in order for it to make sense from a lore perspective. You can't be superior from casual High 6-As... By being casually High 6-A.

LMAO, what kind of flawed logic is that?

I've seen several if not hundreds of series where X character is WAY stronger, like LEAGUES ABOVE. Yet, that doesn't warrant any tier jump, you can be several times stronger than someone and still be in the same tier.

In fact you even have 2 tiers before 5-B. This "superior " angels can be 5-C, low 5-B or even High 6-A and still be leagues above the rest.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kami There is another 5-B feat in the verse on the same level as the feat in question.

 

[Golden_Void]

"People love to bring up "Muh statements" "Muh feat jump", while either innocently or deliberatedly ignoring the actual point."

"People for downgrade: UMR, Khristis, Knight.

Their arguments: Destroyed."

So you act like this for literally no reason, but when someone confronts you, its a problem and you hide behind your green name.

Cool, heading to school :^)

Unfollowing, lol.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kami, you are once again ignoring my point.

I am not denying that a High 6-A can't be stronger than High 6-A, but that if the feat which makes the Seraphs much higher than High 6-A people was only High 6-A, if wouldn't be treated as a big deal.

Also this is the only time they use the wording "Destroy the world". None of the other surface-wasting level feats do, illustrating the point that surface-busting feats aren't considered world-destroying in the descriptions of the Hierarchy of Laguna.

 

[Reppuzan]

Can you guys not call each others names and use ad hominem attacks on each other?

We're Staff Members, not five year olds.

If you have a personal grievance, send a PM. Don't accuse each other of abusing their authority in a public setting.

 

[Sera_EX]

Can we...not do this? I strongly recommend we don't. This isn't politics. Stay civil or get out. No one wants to be bothered with it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@UMR

I would appreciate if you didn't insult me or try to strawman or try to turn this thread into a drama-fest, something I suspect was part of the design since the beginning.

It's like whenever your points are disagreed with by a majority you start accusing people of power-abuse, resulting to personal insults, and then just throwing your arms in the air and abandoning the thread. You're not a child.

Also, learn to accept some joke I made about listing who agreed and who didn't. It was harmless.

My point in that post is that people were ignoring my main argument, either willingly or by accident, and addressing a side-argument that is nothing without the main point, and acting as if they had destroyed my post.

 

[Kepekley23]

@UMR

Dude, just don't.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Weekly and Matt as well, but more importantly I feel as if all these Bayonetta revisions have gotten out of hand. Everyone, please be nice to each other. All discussion boards should be hostility free if possible.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Matt

We're all frustrated, but continuing to shoot back probably isn't helping in the slightest.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Repp

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Schnee_One]

The best thing to do is just lower your arms and just end it there.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I feel this should be closed, tbh. I turned into a shitshow and was rejected.

 

[Sera_EX]

Purge it to oblivion, then.

 

[Kepekley23]

This thread needs to cease existing.