Godzilla Final Wars Revisions

So I noticed FW Godzilla and Monster X are island lvl due to a calculation by TheJ-ManRequiem

Now before I go on I must give a HUGE thanks to requiem for going over almost all the godzilla films and bringing more of a vs debating perspective on the franchise. Anyway, back to topic, using the given numbers this calc isn't mathematiclly incorrect BUT he himself says the meteors weight is unspecified and only goes off of the weight of monster x

The meteor is the gorath astriod which in all almost incarnations is said/described to be extremly dense, more so than a star even. (No I'm not saying the astriod in FW is the same one that stars in the other films since that would make this feat high end large star lvl and that doesn't add up at all obviously, I am just supporting that the arguement that the meteor has a much higher weight than monster x alone)

Now in the film the meteor is said mutiple times and even shown in a hologram that it WILL destroy the planet and this is a crucial plot point. If something that is stated is a important part of the current situation, arch, or entire story then it is usually accepted especially since the hypothetical result was actually shown and Godzilla had to output a energy equivalent to not only slow down the acceleration of said object but tank it, along with this meteor hitting him in the face (insert bill burr bit here) and resulting in little damege to Godzilla.

Refusing this and saying it's island because *Insert reason with most likley less evidence than opposing claim* is like saying majin vegetas sacrifice against fat buu was island lvl despite the scaling, statements, feats, etc...

If you're still sceptical then don't worry I'm not done.

Keizer said to be the strongest member of the Ghidorah family in the FW theater program. WoG has been used for other godzilla monsters and godzilla himself on the IDW page so as long as it doesn't mess with the scaling it's fine and this shouldn't complicate any of that especially if the meteor statement is taking into account. Even then some pages just need WoG and thats it so why not here

And king ghidorah in the heisei era is listed as 5-B or Planetary due to his performance against Godzilla who is stronger than mothra and battra individually, both of whom deflected a planet busting astroid. (kinda like the one discussed earlier)

And the previous arguement supports this claim

Now it is also thrown around that he is the strongest godzilla villian but this is a mistranslation the statment was similar to this but not exact saying he is "One of" the strongest "movie" villians

which wouldn't be inaccurate considering his superiority over king ghidorah should support this since heisei mechagodzilla vs spacegodzilla is actually a hotly debated topic in the Godzilla community since the og spacegodzilla script stared Mecha G rather than moguera but the director and producer thought the "Mecha G and Big G combo" (gotta love that name, sounds like the best kids meal ever) would be too much for spacegodzilla, and destroyah is the only heisei villan after battle for earth to be definitley above the rest. (I personnally agree on Mecha G being the most powerful till destroyah but even then mecha KG is arguably just as debatable as the spacegodzilla debate and Mecha KG should also be included in the keizer ghidorah statement)

Point is keizer ghidorah is definetly 5-B and keizer ghidorah is slightly weaker than monster x defensively since his gravity beams locked with godzillas, (yes they eventually overpowered him but the fact that it was a struggle should imply enough) his design is his exoskeleton, monster x tanked godzillas breath head on, and keizer blew off one his own head accidentally which means his physical power isn't equal to his gravity beams. Also a little extra just cuz since the page is not limited to incarnation, like the other non-Godzilla monsters, keizer can change back into monster x in the IDW canon

So all in all

Consistent statements

Actually shown feat

and WoG multiple times

Thus so

Godzilla (FW) should be upgraded to 5-B or Planetary

Monster X should be upgraded to 5-B or Planetary

And Keizer Ghidorah should be upgraded to 5-B or Planetary respectively

Sources:

http://wikizilla.org/wiki/Monster_X

[URL='https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/3/30/The_meteor.png/revision/latest?cb=20180219000139']
Godzilla: Final Wars Super Complete Works[/URL] (p. 28)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUvOwPfpvFg&feature=youtu.be

http://wikizilla.org/wiki/Theater_programs

All Toho Monsters Pictorial Book (4th Edition)

And of course the film itself Godzilla: Final Wars

Just gonna get this out of the way right now, we dont use or accept WoG at all for Godzilla here

^^^^^

Oh Zap you have very little idea what we dealt with back then... Low-Godly Regen Rage Across Time Godzilla? Check. Universe level Godzilla in Hell? Check. Hell. I mean, even the WoG we currently use for IDW is pretty trippy.

Back to the Ghidorahs, I'll stay neutral until more inputs

My main issue is that the characters stating the Asteroid Gorath AKA Monster X would destroy the planet were Xillians. Who were

1) The villain of the movie

2) Had no reason to reveal the truth about Gorath's true nature

3) Were trying to get humans to ally with them so they could mind control every monster (which worked splendidly)

I don't think Monster X / Keizer Ghidora are planetary. Even if we go by pamphlets who are secondary canons.

Also, Heisei Mechagodzilla took only a single Spiral beam to be blown up, Spacegodzilla took FOUR after being weakened while Destororyah took dozen. Just saying it's a rather uneven scaling.

Also being one of the 'strongest enemies' seems honestly a way to hype. No doubt, Keizen Ghidora is however one of the enemies who battered Godzilla around the most, even stomping him, but it's relative also to Godzilla's power in that story. Showa Ghidora is considered one of Godzilla's greatest foes, but he was weaker than Heisei Batttra, much less Heisei Ghidora, mechagodzilla and so on.

Also, Keizen Ghidora is >>>>>>>>>>> Monster X. the Xillian leader had given it all of his power and once it fought the guy went from fighting evenly with GOji to stomping him. A single bite was draining godzilla of all of his lifeforce until Godzilla went Keizer on him

So why is the IDW WoG accepted?

And as for mecha g it took two and spacegodzilla was already down after the first the secound was for moguera and I have no clue where the other two came from imma have to rewatch that fight


Also isn't the godzilla in hell thing still unkown since we saw two distant galaxies in one panel but since we have no way of determining the size or whatever along with vauge continuity?

ZapZaz7 said:

So why is the IDW WoG accepted?

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Because the cloud feat is not calc-able, so we agreed to use that

ZapZaz7 said:

Also isn't the godzilla in hell thing still unkown since we saw two distant galaxies in one panel but since we have no way of determining the size or whatever along with vauge continuity?

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No? Godzilla in Hell is Dwarf Star level from the planet bust between Godilla and SpaceGodzilla

I guess I should have elaborated

I meant his divine form

I know before that since it was calced (tho the page accepts the high end version sooo not sure what's going on there)

Also I didn't see any parting of the clouds

Yes in was in out of orbit perspective but it doesn't say it in the text (at least I don't recall) and it doesn't look like a circular or crater cloud shape

Has anyone checked that feats credibility?

There is no divine form, only a temporary forcefield and minor powerup Godzilla got from eating a ton of angels

Huh

Man godzilla is weird

So no revision due to manipulative Xillians?

Trust me i know, i had to rework 95% of the godzilla profiles a few months back, they were a complete mess.

Xantospoc said:

My main issue is that the characters stating the Asteroid Gorath AKA Monster X would destroy the planet were Xillians. Who were
1) The villain of the movie

2) Had no reason to reveal the truth about Gorath's true nature

3) Were trying to get humans to ally with them so they could mind control every monster (which worked splendidly)

I don't think Monster X / Keizer Ghidora are planetary. Even if we go by pamphlets who are secondary canons.

Also, Heisei Mechagodzilla took only a single Spiral beam to be blown up, Spacegodzilla took FOUR after being weakened while Destororyah took dozen. Just saying it's a rather uneven scaling.

Also being one of the 'strongest enemies' seems honestly a way to hype. No doubt, Keizen Ghidora is however one of the enemies who battered Godzilla around the most, even stomping him, but it's relative also to Godzilla's power in that story. Showa Ghidora is considered one of Godzilla's greatest foes, but he was weaker than Heisei Batttra, much less Heisei Ghidora, mechagodzilla and so on.

Also, Keizen Ghidora is >>>>>>>>>>> Monster X. the Xillian leader had given it all of his power and once it fought the guy went from fighting evenly with GOji to stomping him. A single bite was draining godzilla of all of his lifeforce until Godzilla went Keizer on him

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The inferiror durability of Keizer Ghidorah compared to his previous form is mentioned in the PS4 Godzilla guide, I think. Also Godzilla's Spiral Breath that destroyed Super MechaGodzilla (which took way more than one to completly destroy) was actually more powerfula than the ones used to kill SpaceGodzilla. Yes, this is from Wkizlla, which actually lists the source of qhere they got the informations: As a result of Godzilla absorbing Fire Roda's life energy in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II, the color of this beam was changed to red, and it was shown to be so powerful that only a few blasts of it were sufficient to completely destroy Super Mechagodzilla and SpaceGodzilla, though Destoroyah was able to withstand several hits to his exoskeleton without any visible damage. The 1999 informational book Godzilla 1954-1999 Super Complete Works goes into further detail about the red spiral ray in the Heisei series. According to this book, Godzilla fires a different red spiral ray in each film after acquiring it. In Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II, the ray is called the Uranium Atomic Heat Ray (ÒéªÒâ®ÒâïÒéªÒâáµö¥Õ░äþå▒þÀÜ Uraniumu hōsha nesse?), and has a temperature of 1.2 million degrees Celsius, hot enough to burn Godzilla's mouth. In Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, the beam is called the Burn Spiral Heat Ray (ÒâÉÒâ╝Òâ│Òé╣ÒâæÒéñÒâ®Òâ½þå▒þÀÜ B─ün supairaru nesse?) or the Nuclear Fusion Heat Ray (Þ×ìÕÉêÕÅìÕ┐£þå▒þÀÜ Yügō han'nō nesse?) and reaches a temperature of 900,000 degrees Celsius. In Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, Burning Godzilla utilizes two different beams, the Burning Heat Ray (ÒâÉÒâ╝ÒâïÒâ│Òé░þå▒þÀÜ B─üningu nesse?) and the Infinite Heat Ray (ÒéñÒâ│ÒâòÒéúÒâïÒââÒâêþå▒þÀÜ Infinitto nesse?). The Infinite Heat Ray is presumably the most powerful variant of Godzilla's atomic breath seen to date, as it was utilized against Destoroyah once Burning Godzilla began to enter meltdown, and is said to increase infinitely in power each time Godzilla uses it. This beam was capable of blasting off part of the frill on Destoroyah's head and severely wounding his shoulder while setting the entire surrounding area ablaze, forcing Destoroyah to try and retreat. [33]

From the wiki there are the voices of X's and Ghidora's profile and this is what they say

KEIZER GHIDORAH

FW godzilla never landed a hit with his atomic breath. The gravity beams cancelled it out

And the beams can destroy parts of keizers body so they cannot be compared

And keizer may have had the upper hand but that just justifys strength not durability. And his strength increase is mentioned plenty of times

So the only info on his durability is the ps4 game and a guide both of which say is weaker than monster x

Because of that being our only offical reference its credibility has to be taken in to account

ppl dont like to accept logic do they? i agree with 5-B final wars goji.

FW being planetary seems a bit high...though I know a guy who argues for it with movie statements.

The fact author statements get denied here for Godzilla only is just flat out stupid, no excuses it's bias against the character. (I dare someone to actually refute that because it's getting pretty annoying. You ask for evidence an then ignore it.)


As for Keizer scaling to Heisei monsters....eh...kinda fickle. I mean we do have it on comic panel (Monster X=SG=Godzilla) but IDW can be weird sometimes. We have Destoroyah taking blasts from Godzilla with no damage then Anguirus (with help) overcomes the demon crab. If we stick only to the films (IDW needs an amp as is) then it shouldn't be. Heisei MG proved slightly superior to Godzilla in power whereas the planet busting moths didn't. They overwhelmed him, not overpowered him. And Ghidorah had aid the entire time and when that disappeared Godzilla easily won the fight. So with Godzilla scaling a decent amount above Battra, Mothra and KG it's hard to put Keizer on the level of foes who pushed Godzilla to his limit. Also saying MG>SG is wrong. The original script even proves that, MG needed Godzilla's help to win and Toho states that themselves. While true that the blast used to defeat MG was hotter it's also stated that because Godzilla took in some of SpaceGodzilla's energy the blast he used on him was much stronger. So Destoroyah>SG>MG. And scaling in the movie itself also justifies this, Moguera is stated to be the ultimate anti-Godzilla machine, by default putting it above MechaG. And we all know what SpaceG did to it.

WeeklyBattles said:

There is no divine form, only a temporary forcefield and minor powerup Godzilla got from eating a ton of angels

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Um excuse me sir but that is a complete lie.

There is absolutely no excuse for downplaying Godzilla this severely.

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Um excuse me sir but that is a complete lie.

There is absolutely no excuse for downplaying Godzilla this severely.

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Its not a lie at all, its what happened in the comic

There is no 'Divine Form', Godzilla ate a bunch of angels, absorbed their power, and used it to beat SpaceGodzilla

WeeklyBattles said:

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Um excuse me sir but that is a complete lie.

There is absolutely no excuse for downplaying Godzilla this severely.

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Its not a lie at all, its what happened in the comic
There is no 'Divine Form', Godzilla ate a bunch of angels, absorbed their power, and used it to beat SpaceGodzilla

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It is a lie that there's no divine form. Also the angels and demons were complete fodder, Godzilla treated them as insects in his normal state. Clearly it's more than Godzilla+angels because Godzilla obliterated SpaceGodzilla when he absorbed Hell's power.

Yes, yes there is. There are several statements confirming it and even implied in the comic Godzilla reached that divine level of power since the angels and demons directly start treating Godzilla as a god right after he seemingly kills the mountain god (which has been drawn by one of the comic artists making a universe, which would justify universal Godzilla to a degree)

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Yes, yes there is. There are several statements confirming it and even implied in the comic Godzilla reached that divine level of power since the angels and demons directly start treating Godzilla as a god right after he seemingly kills the mountain god (which has been drawn by one of the comic artists making a universe, which would justify universal Godzilla to a degree)

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Using artwork as evidence is as non-canon as you can get. I know from experience.

There are like six lines of dialogue in the entire comic series and none of them say anything about a divine form

The real cal howard said:

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Yes, yes there is. There are several statements confirming it and even implied in the comic Godzilla reached that divine level of power since the angels and demons directly start treating Godzilla as a god right after he seemingly kills the mountain god (which has been drawn by one of the comic artists making a universe, which would justify universal Godzilla to a degree)

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Using artwork as evidence is as non-canon as you can get. I know from experience.

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That statement (t least the way it comes off) is the definition of stupid. Yes, art drawn by an artist about his character is non-canon. ******* genius. Let's let the stupidity sink in now.

WeeklyBattles said:

There are like six lines of dialogue in the entire comic series and none of them say anything about a divine form

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Yet they do hint at something later stated. That being Godzilla's divine level of power.

And the Divine form is clearly a thing, unless you think Godzilla just has existence erasure for erasing SpaceGodzilla's crystals upon contact.

He didnt erase anything, he just destroyed them

Not to say he didn't kill the Mountain God, he just blew up the mortal by making some rocks fall above it.

I swear I have no idea how much of a disconnect between an artist and an author there could be about this issue.

Also, yes, they 'worshipped' Godzilla to try to get on his good side. After he was the strongest thing left on that area. It was not very effective

WeeklyBattles said:

He didnt erase anything, he just destroyed them

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By touching them....

Yeah, he crushed them

Xantospoc said:

Not to say he didn't kill the Mountain God, he just blew up the mortal by making some rocks fall above it.
I swear I have no idea how much of a disconnect between an artist and an author there could be about this issue.

Also, yes, they 'worshipped' Godzilla to try to get on his good side. After he was the strongest thing left on that area. It was not very effective

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People have asked several times and it's said he did though God in its true essence is immortal and exists above Godzilla's reality. The Mountain God though....I dunno he blasted Godzilla straight to another universe but I'm not sure that alone generates that rating (also Heaven and Hell are confirmed separate universes, which kinda just makes sense)

Perhaps but the artist who is showing the character do something when they also show character do other things is hard to dismiss.

"As the new God" that's said like 4 times about him after that scene.

Everyone scales to Ultra Necrozma now due to artwork.

Yes. Artwork drawn in no relation to the canon is very much non-canon, regardless if it was the original author or not.

A bunch of the girls from Kirby happily share a meal...despite two of them not only being evil, but very much dead.

WeeklyBattles said:

Yeah, he crushed them

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It's kinda obvious there's a different level of power here to do that, seeing how SpaceGodzilla without any amps tanked several blasts of Godzilla's atomic breath.

Yes, theyre on a different level as Godzilla had a temporary powerup

Just because the author keep stating that on twitter, unless we get some confirmation in a story where it plays a crucial role (and no, Godzilla Cataclysm doesn't count, as there all Kaju are seen as gods) it won't be ever taken seriously.

Can't it simply be that the Heaven Amp was superior to the Hell amp?

WeeklyBattles said:

Yes, theyre on a different level as Godzilla had a temporary powerup

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I mean it wasn't exactly temporary, he carried at least some of that energy with him.

It was temporary, after he destroyed the portal to heaven the purple energy indicating he had the power up was gone

Xantospoc said:

Just because the author keep stating that on twitter, unless we get some confirmation in a story where it plays a crucial role (and no, Godzilla Cataclysm doesn't count, as there all Kaju are seen as gods) it won't be ever taken seriously.
Can't it simply be that the Heaven Amp was superior to the Hell amp?

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I mean IDW hasn't made any comics (for G) in a few years so basically you're trying to straw it out. It's pretty obvious that IDW as a whole gets downplayed. Country level when he's got more power than when he fights SG? That's just dumb.

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Xantospoc said:

Not to say he didn't kill the Mountain God, he just blew up the mortal by making some rocks fall above it.
I swear I have no idea how much of a disconnect between an artist and an author there could be about this issue.

Also, yes, they 'worshipped' Godzilla to try to get on his good side. After he was the strongest thing left on that area. It was not very effective

Click to expand...

People have asked several times and it's said he did though God in its true essence is immortal and exists above Godzilla's reality. The Mountain God though....I dunno he blasted Godzilla straight to another universe but I'm not sure that alone generates that rating (also Heaven and Hell are confirmed separate universes, which kinda just makes sense)
Perhaps but the artist who is showing the character do something when they also show character do other things is hard to dismiss.

"As the new God" that's said like 4 times about him after that scene.

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dunno, God-Mountain could be the real God, but still that feat is very vague and we probably can't use that to upgrade

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Xantospoc said:

Just because the author keep stating that on twitter, unless we get some confirmation in a story where it plays a crucial role (and no, Godzilla Cataclysm doesn't count, as there all Kaju are seen as gods) it won't be ever taken seriously.
Can't it simply be that the Heaven Amp was superior to the Hell amp?

Click to expand...

I mean IDW hasn't made any comics (for G) in a few years so basically you're trying to straw it out. It's pretty obvious that IDW as a whole gets downplayed. Country level when he's got more power than when he fights SG? That's just dumb.

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There is nothing implying that the Godzilla from GiH is the same one as the first Godzilla IDW trilogy.

Xantospoc said:

SuperGodzilla Kaiju King said:

Xantospoc said:

Just because the author keep stating that on twitter, unless we get some confirmation in a story where it plays a crucial role (and no, Godzilla Cataclysm doesn't count, as there all Kaju are seen as gods) it won't be ever taken seriously.
Can't it simply be that the Heaven Amp was superior to the Hell amp?

Click to expand...

I mean IDW hasn't made any comics (for G) in a few years so basically you're trying to straw it out. It's pretty obvious that IDW as a whole gets downplayed. Country level when he's got more power than when he fights SG? That's just dumb.

Click to expand...

There is nothing implying that the Godzilla from GiH is the same one as the first Godzilla IDW trilogy.

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Except....


"Godzilla's greatest battle" the demon monsters were nothing to Godzilla, and SpaceGodzilla definitely existed in GiH which was introduced in prior comics

And it's also confirmed he's never died

at all in the series, so he's had ALL of his previous battles before his "greatest battle yet"

We dont accept WoG for Godzilla