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Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

VS Battles
Retired VSB Bureaucrat
15,614
7,054
The first and most important thing I need to bring up is 239's Existence Erasure. Obviously, she has this ability, but the problem is with the statement afterwards.

"(This works up to beings that are nonexistent)"

This statement is not only false, but the exact opposite of what the story Sisters tells us.

  • Here's the first statement. Aside from being told that 239 cannot erase/kill a Way, the more important part here is that we're explicitly told you can't kill a Neverwere because it doesn't exist. This is a pretty direct statement of "239 cannot erase nonexistent beings because they are nonexistent".
"She was encompassed by the tentacles of the Way-Neverwere-Way, both in the physical world and the spiritual world. Instead of panic, the position brought her a burst of clarity.

She'd been going about this wrong. You couldn't kill a Way. It was a Way. And you couldn't kill a Neverwere. You couldn't put something out of existence that didn't exist in the first place.
"

  • Now for the second statement. More confirmation that 239 cannot kill the Neverwere, and that she doesn't "defeat" it or anything like that. She stops it by healing it.
"But she wasn't afraid anymore, because she knew the answer. She didn't need any more time to stop the end of the world.

She couldn't kill this creature. But she could heal it.
"

  • 239 does pretty much exactly what her inner thoughts tell us she's going to do.
"She saw it all in her mind, to hole tearing in the middle of reality, all of Earth collapsing into the hole left in the middle of Site-17. That vision of her drifting off into space…

And she said, "No."

She reached into the forming hole in the world, into the heart of the suffering, broken Way, and she pulled it inside out. She pulled the Neverwere right out of it, and into…

Into essence. Into existence.
"

  • The result of the Neverwere existing is now quite different than it trying to end the world.
"In a maternity ward not so far away from Site-17, in the world of the mundane, a newborn baby took in its first breath of air. The quickening. The moment when, metaphysically speaking, the soul enters the body.

The baby had matted black hair and bright brown eyes. It had red baby gums and pliable baby fingers and soft baby skin. It had cartilage and tendons and bones and blood and a mind.

It was real. It existed. It was happy.
"

  • If what just happened needs to be made any more obvious, then here's part of a conversation in the epilogue.
""I have to admit," Alison Chao said, surveying the crowd below, "I didn't expect that outcome."

Next to her, Sigurrós Stef├ínsdóttir kicked her feet. "I couldn't kill it. I had to make it real."

"You realize that's never been done before, right?" Alison asked. "The Neverwere can't be truly real. That's their defining factor. It just… breaks the laws of the universe to say otherwise."

"Maybe the problem is with the laws of the universe, then," Sigurrós said.
"

As both explicitly stated and shown, 239 does not "erase the Neverwere from nonexistence", which is something the setting itself describes as silly. She reaches through the hole it begins forming in reality, pulls it into existence, and alters the laws of the universe so that it is able to be real. In finally being real, the Neverwere is given peace, and is no longer a world-ending threat. This is not existence erasure. This is reality warping so that something which otherwise cannot exist is able to exist.


Another issue that needs to be addressed is that 239's page says that she "Matched the Neverwere in a battle of reality warping" and as "being able to best a Neverwere in both a battle of reality-bending and mental power". These are both incorrect.

  • The Neverwere's mental powers are explicitly greater than her own, and described as being too great for her to directly counter. 239 is able to parry them when the creature puts more effort into it, but just barely.
"The Way-Neverwere-Way resisted. It flung its mind at her again, but this time its mind was like a world in and of itself, an overwhelming force full of emotion. She couldn't directly counter it — she envisioned its mental attack as a vast metal scorpion's tail, and barely deflected it with a conjured mirror-shield."

  • There's also the fact that without her foci, 239 quickly begins to fall prey to the Neverwere, especially after it begins diverting attention away from Alison.
"Without anything to anchor her, Sigurrós floundered. The Neverwere/Way chanted in her head.

Whatismynamewhatisyournamewhatismyname

My name is Sigurrós Stef├ínsdóttir, she thought. It's a good name. But I might not have it for much longer.

She felt like she was floating at the top of a well, with deep, deep water before. It would be so easy to just … let go, and sink, sink forever, into the blissful abyss…

She didn't let go, but she sank anyway.

She felt herself becoming half-real. Half-real, and falling asleep.

One minute left until the end of the world.

never… never… never… never…
"


Finally, there's the matter of her speed for the first key, which is listed as Immeasurable for keeping up with the Neverwere. However, as you may have noticed from some of these quotes, the entirety of the Neverwere's attack on site-17 takes place in real time. Hell, the entire first three quarters or so of the story is a countdown to when the Neverwere will implode and erase the planet. The creature's countdown is not taking place in higher-dimensional time, nor is its physical assault on 239. This is not an example of immeasurable speed.


Summary of changes:

  • Removal of the statement following "Existence Erasure" under SCP-239's powers and abilities.
  • Fixing some of the descriptions to better reflect what actually happened during the fight.
  • Removal of the reasoning for Immeasurable speed, and possibly removal of the speed itself for the first key if her physical body does not have any other speed feats to support this ranking.
 
Literally the only thing i agree with here is the part about her speed rating as i was iffy myself about changing it. I'll be adding a more detailed explanation in a few minutes.
 
Actually, upon reading through this a second time, i agree with the first part, but not with the second. Did you really have to post this right as i was about to go to bed? :p
 
lmao It's fine, man. Though if I may ask, what part in the second portion do you disagree with? I'm not saying the Neverwere stomped her, as it obviously didn't, but I believe it's inaccurate to portray her as casually above it, when the story makes it clear that the Neverwere had more raw power, but 239 was far more skilled. That's more what I wanted to clear up.
 
Oh yeah she's not casually above it, but she did resist/reverse/counter a lot of its powers to the point where she viewed them as sloppy and insulting on more than one occasion. Really the only reason he Neverwere was able to get a huge upper hand the way it did was because 239's stamina was taking a toll on her because she didnt have her foci to anchor her power to (which admittedly should probably be listed as a weakness) until the very end of the fight.

"Sigurrós telekinetically lifted herself to her feet. It was really very strange operating this body, this physical shell made of bones and muscle and tendons…

No. She couldn't get distracted, not right now. She focused on the blank-faced/many-faced thing in front of her.

Which was sort of easy to do, because it was sprouting masses of tentacles. And with her spirit-sight, she could see it spreading a countless number of wings.


Whatismynamewhatismynamewhatismyname?

The world stopped existing for a moment. Sloppy. Sigurrós brought it back.

"You can't just soft-delete things," Sigurrós said. "They're super easy to bring back. They come back on their own after a minute anyway and no one notices."

The thing did not answer in words. It opened its mouth without opening its mouth, and a river poured out — no, a tsunami, a tsunami of blue-black water imbued with want and longing and forever. Sigurrós turned the water into a swarm of birds and butterflies, blanketing Site-17 with their wings.

The thing flew into the air and thrust its tentacles into the buildings surrounding them. The buildings turned into a massive wave of spiders that came crashing down on them. Sigurrós, who'd always liked bugs, let the wave come.

That was a mistake. The spiders weren't just spiders. They were the idea of spiders, the fears and genetic arachnophobia of everything that had ever walked this corrupted Way. All concentrated in each of every one of the billions of spiders making up the wave.

Sigurrós screamed as the mass swallowed her up.

Sigurrós writhed in fear for a long minute, at the bottom of the sea of spiders. Then something in the back of her mind said 'really, now'.


'The solution is obvious, actually, that small detached part of her mind said. The way to not be afraid of spiders is to be a spider yourself.

So Sigurrós became a spider.

She didn't just become any spider. She became the Queen of All Spiders.

The other spiders around her bowed their spider heads in awe.

She was about to command them to become something slightly more adorable when the Way's mind struck at her, trying to hammer her into submission with direct force.

That's just insulting, Sigurrós thought. Not clever at all.

She hurled her mind back in response. At the same time, she turned the world around them into cotton candy. Fluffy spider cotton candy.

The Way didn't anticipate that the simultaneous attack. Its physical body went toppling over, and its mind jerked away from her as it struggled to disentangle its body from the cotton candy. Sigurrós took advantage of that to probe again into the thing's confused, alien mind."
 
Oh I definitely believe 239 is much more skilled, but as she said, the Neverwere is "sloppy". It's a being of confused minds and constant anguish, whereas she's calm and acts with a purpose. I'm more trying to get it clarified that a big part of her early advantage came from how good she was at using her powers, as opposed to her being so superior to the Neverwere.
 
Yeah, power-wise she's not superior, she's likely somewhat equal considering they had a literal reality warping firefight for a while until her stamina started running out, but she's definitely more skilled
 
I agree mostly. Before training, she's comparable to a Way, not stronger ... But definitely not weaker . As a human she had less stamina... Which was her main disadvantage in the fight.

However... It's implied post-training with 343 that 239 can create Ways.... Which are definitely countless dimensional. This was before her fullest potential was unlocked at the end of " Al Cupo " [ Am I saying it right ? ] ... So technically that point and beyond she is stronger than a Neverwere, which is the power of a Weakened Way. She's likely comparable to 343 .... Although its questionable if she's stronger or not
 
Yeah... Pre-Training , even if we assume she is weaker, she kinda still held her own very well against a weakened Way . So... she is still in the "Countless" Dimensional levels .
 
Nah, Chaos Gods are still too stronk

Really ive just been waiting for Azzy to talk about exactly what to change her descriptions to :p
 
Theyre literally constructs used to travel to and between higher dimensions, up to and including the Library and the realms that transcend it.
 
There's also 239 trying to stare into the Way's mind and viewing it as an "eternal maze of strings, stretched out on some vast cosmic framework set in in too many dimensions at once".
 
For the existence erasure, it's probably easiest to just erase the statement right after it. The other stuff is mainly just clarifying her fight with the Neverwere a bit so it reflects more that it was an actual, difficult fight (one of the few she's actually been in).

Not sure what her first key's speed should be, actually.
 
Do we have a specific power that "Can force nonexistent beings into existence" would fall under?

Probably just Unknown tbh
 
Yes. I think that's why it's suggested she changed some universal laws so that it actually could exist and wouldn't just cease to be, again.
 
Also, should the Neverwere have Perception Manipulation?


All these visions. All these visions of things she'd never seen, touched, tasted, experienced. She'd thought she had it okay, drifting around and watching in an astral body, keeping her physical form asleep.

She was wrong. She'd experienced nothing like the visions she was seeing now.

She was walking the beaches of Zebedee. Running through the jungles of Albenon. Tasting the redfruit juices of the Ravelwoods.

She could die here, and that would be okay. Rather than live experiencing a twentieth of a lifetime, she could die experiencing what most wouldn't experience in a thousand lifetimes.

But…

Then she saw the vision she'd had before, the vision of the future, of the Way-Neverwere-Way self-destructing into the hole in reality that would stay forever until the heat death of this universe. A black smirch where there once was a living, promising planet.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Do we have a specific power that "Can force nonexistent beings into existence" would fall under?

Probably just Unknown tbh
Duality manipulation, that's the implication. From 0 to 1.
 
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