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Tornado of Terror vs Doffy
- Thread starter ALRF
- Start date
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I'm going to look at this bit-by-bit:
Tatsumaki Stat advantage:
Tatsumaki Abilities:
The way I see it is that Tatsumaki would easily take the initial advantage, but Doflamingo would rely on his tricky nature in combat, and resort to his Black Knight and act as its support while trying to whittle away at Tatsumaki's defenses with his standard attacks. Tatsumaki would easily tank his normal attacks, but once Doflamingo begins spamming his Awakening and haki, she'll likely be overwhelmed, unless she can use her Telekinesis to stop every single strand of thread that Doflamingo has at his disposal, which I highly doubt. If even a single haki-imbued thread gets passed Tatsumaki's defenses, she is going to gradually receive more damage until she can't fight back anymore. She probably can't end him with Telekinesis due to his lower level regen.
I think Doflamingo wins High-diff, but I'm curious what Tatsu-defenders have to say.
Tatsumaki Stat advantage:
- AP (I know she's 900+GT, making her nearly 50% stronger than Doffy)
- Range
- Stamina (By far)
- Intellect (By the standpoint of "combat smarts" and experience.)
- Equipment (haki-infused coat ftw)
Tatsumaki Abilities:
- Telekinesis (Giving flight and barriers)
- Aura Control (Very limited against high will-powered opponents, apparently)
- Chi Manipulation
- Wind Manipulation
- Regen via threads (Mid-Low)
- Statistic's Amp (Busoshoku)
- Pre-cog and Extrasensual Perception (Kenbunshoku)
- Aura (Haoshoku)
- Pseudo-Flight
- Low level Transmutation (Awakening)
- Ability to restrict an opponent's movement (Parasito)
- Duplication (via Black Knight)
The way I see it is that Tatsumaki would easily take the initial advantage, but Doflamingo would rely on his tricky nature in combat, and resort to his Black Knight and act as its support while trying to whittle away at Tatsumaki's defenses with his standard attacks. Tatsumaki would easily tank his normal attacks, but once Doflamingo begins spamming his Awakening and haki, she'll likely be overwhelmed, unless she can use her Telekinesis to stop every single strand of thread that Doflamingo has at his disposal, which I highly doubt. If even a single haki-imbued thread gets passed Tatsumaki's defenses, she is going to gradually receive more damage until she can't fight back anymore. She probably can't end him with Telekinesis due to his lower level regen.
I think Doflamingo wins High-diff, but I'm curious what Tatsu-defenders have to say.
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I'm pretty sure we're going to see the normal things.
Tatsumaki squishes Doffy's head. Tatsumaki rotates Doffy's head on his shoulders, rips him apart in some form with telekinesis, buries him underground, throws him into space etc.
Tatsumaki squishes Doffy's head. Tatsumaki rotates Doffy's head on his shoulders, rips him apart in some form with telekinesis, buries him underground, throws him into space etc.
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Okay but, and ignoring Burning, but space.
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@Burning - ... that put a lot of creative imagery in my head. Thanks for that.
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@J-Man - I'm pretty certain Doffy would just attach strings to himself, and the environment surrounding him. He could stop himself from being chunked into space, especially when his threads support his weight even when attached only to clouds... which I still struggle to figure out how that works.
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No problem, my dude.CinCameron20 said:
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Cin, ya do know she can eject the area alongside him too?
Her telekinesis allowed her to lift a city sized base, and send city blocks flying at hypersonic speeds at a 80 degree angle upwards.
Her telekinesis allowed her to lift a city sized base, and send city blocks flying at hypersonic speeds at a 80 degree angle upwards.
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@J-Man - as she's lifting the debris, Doflamingo can jump downwards back to the surface with Sora no Michi attached to the pieces of city being thrown up into the air, or he can convert all of it into threads and control it at will. Speed is equalized, and hypersonic speeds aren't even impressive.
@PaChi - I know she tends to do that, but that's suggesting Doflamingo stands there, let's tatsumaki attack first, and display absolutely no resistance against her. He has pre-cog where-as she doesn't. If anything, He will make the first move, which could throw Tatsu off, especially if Doflamingo uses Awakening out of fear for the glimpse of his potential death that he sees.
I noted that Tatsumaki has the initial advantage, and that's the most opportune time for her to be successful in this fight, but she could also fall victim to Doflamingo's threads, especially if she doesn't notice them at first while she's squishing his body. She did fall prey to her own weakness due to one of her opponents sneaking up and landing a strike on her head. "When a psychic becomes focused on attack, their defense becomes frail". When Tatsumaki is busy attempting to kill Doflamingo, he could simultaneously be attacking her with a blind-siding attack such as Full-Bright, Parasito, or an awakening attack.
When Tatsumaki was focusing her attention on the Monster Association, Psychos snuck up on her and took advantage of her lack of active defense and easily landed a strike on her, which crippled her for the rest of the fight. Am I wrong in assuming that Doflamingo could do the same with an ability that was introduced as being subtle/invisible to the opponent's eyes?
@PaChi - I know she tends to do that, but that's suggesting Doflamingo stands there, let's tatsumaki attack first, and display absolutely no resistance against her. He has pre-cog where-as she doesn't. If anything, He will make the first move, which could throw Tatsu off, especially if Doflamingo uses Awakening out of fear for the glimpse of his potential death that he sees.
I noted that Tatsumaki has the initial advantage, and that's the most opportune time for her to be successful in this fight, but she could also fall victim to Doflamingo's threads, especially if she doesn't notice them at first while she's squishing his body. She did fall prey to her own weakness due to one of her opponents sneaking up and landing a strike on her head. "When a psychic becomes focused on attack, their defense becomes frail". When Tatsumaki is busy attempting to kill Doflamingo, he could simultaneously be attacking her with a blind-siding attack such as Full-Bright, Parasito, or an awakening attack.
When Tatsumaki was focusing her attention on the Monster Association, Psychos snuck up on her and took advantage of her lack of active defense and easily landed a strike on her, which crippled her for the rest of the fight. Am I wrong in assuming that Doflamingo could do the same with an ability that was introduced as being subtle/invisible to the opponent's eyes?
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Lifting? Ya know she can use telekinesis on numerous objects at one right?
The ground, himself, she can do it all at once, how's he jumping down when he's also being thrown up, alongside everything else? Including the things his strings are attached too (Plus the way ya word it it's like he's already attached them too everything, he hasn't and would need to do that mid fight for it to actually be used).
The ground, himself, she can do it all at once, how's he jumping down when he's also being thrown up, alongside everything else? Including the things his strings are attached too (Plus the way ya word it it's like he's already attached them too everything, he hasn't and would need to do that mid fight for it to actually be used).
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@J-Man - extending threads from his body to structures has never shown to take him any time. And all he has to do is touch the ground being thrown up into the air to turn them into threads, which he then controls
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And? The ground gets thrown up too.
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... He. Touches. The. GROUND. Which. He. Then. Turns. To. Threads. And. Can. Control. At. Will.
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Clearly im not getting it, post a scan.
Because I still don't see why here several thousand kilometer range and tk in conjunction cant send him and the whole area into orbit.
Because I still don't see why here several thousand kilometer range and tk in conjunction cant send him and the whole area into orbit.
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Something like this. He can just touch the ground that's being thrown up, and turn just a small amount of it into threads and then manipulate it at will. For example, he could catch himself with the threads, and move away.
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And why cant those threads be tossed up into space?
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Gee, it's almost as if Doflamingo can telekinetically manipulate literally every thread he creates.
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Sorry Cin but Doffy isn't winning this.
Tatsumaki's 952GT feat is entirely casual so she's ~50% stronger than Doffy on a casual basis. If I only take a ~20% increase on her power when she's serious (this is just being generous here), she goes ~78% stronger than him. That alone constitutes quite the large advantage.
Doffy's versatility won't mean much if he can't even reach her. She's a big range abuser and seing that her range dwards Doffy's completely, him getting close is gonna be an ordeal on it's own. His Awakening also won't mean much. Yes he can turn the surroundings into threads, but he can't turn air into threads. Unless Tatsumaki stays near buildings and such, which she absolutely has no reason to, his Awakening will be greatly hindered.
All this talk about his threads getting through her defenses or deceiving her with his clones, is naught but wishful thinking. She doesn't need to stop every single thread, she can erect telekinetic shields even unconsciously so the clones aren't taking her by surprise and the threads aren't getting through without a lot of struggle considering her barriers are also an extension of her psychic powers used for her AP.
And also his Precog isn't saving him from multidirectional attacks on a Speed Equalized scenario. That or she can turn and twist him and he has no choice but to tank it, which again brings it around to her large AP advantage.
Also judging from the place where the battle takes place, it's not unthinkable for Doffy to be thrown in bodies of water considering she likes throwing people around.
Tatsumaki's 952GT feat is entirely casual so she's ~50% stronger than Doffy on a casual basis. If I only take a ~20% increase on her power when she's serious (this is just being generous here), she goes ~78% stronger than him. That alone constitutes quite the large advantage.
Doffy's versatility won't mean much if he can't even reach her. She's a big range abuser and seing that her range dwards Doffy's completely, him getting close is gonna be an ordeal on it's own. His Awakening also won't mean much. Yes he can turn the surroundings into threads, but he can't turn air into threads. Unless Tatsumaki stays near buildings and such, which she absolutely has no reason to, his Awakening will be greatly hindered.
All this talk about his threads getting through her defenses or deceiving her with his clones, is naught but wishful thinking. She doesn't need to stop every single thread, she can erect telekinetic shields even unconsciously so the clones aren't taking her by surprise and the threads aren't getting through without a lot of struggle considering her barriers are also an extension of her psychic powers used for her AP.
And also his Precog isn't saving him from multidirectional attacks on a Speed Equalized scenario. That or she can turn and twist him and he has no choice but to tank it, which again brings it around to her large AP advantage.
Also judging from the place where the battle takes place, it's not unthinkable for Doffy to be thrown in bodies of water considering she likes throwing people around.
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Tatsumaki's insanely superior AP and Telikinetic range make a very easy win for Tatsumaki
Or just outright fly above him the whole time.
Or just outright fly above him the whole time.
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Can anyone show me a scan of Tatsumaki actually controlling, twisting , crushing and killing someone on her level other than fodder? Also wasn't it stated that Tatsumaki has trouble using her telekinesis on those with strong wills? If that's the case then Doffy should be able to resist it to an extent.
Also Scarlet, well it's true that she's that much stronger than him her actual durability isn't anywhere near that high hence why she has "Large Island Level durability via barriers." Which makes me want to ask this. How many can she create and what's the size of the AoE of them? IIRC she never has shown the ability to actually create one that covers her entirely, if so please post a scan. If not this can be countered with Doffy's awakening. Which we've seen being able to attack from multiple directions. That being said they'd likely be able to get around her barriers and strike her body.
I think you're forgetting Doffy can also fly, so her range won't be too much of an issue unless she somehow finds out he's using the clouds and gets rid of them which ain't happening.
I've actually never seen Tatsumaki use her barriers while unconscious. Mind posting a scan of that? Also once Doffy sees that his threads can't break her barriers he'll simply attempt to get around them.
Also I've never seen Tatsumaki use multi directional attacks so if you could actually post a scan of that it'd be appreciated. And Doffy can also launch multi directional attacks with his awakening.
Once again, Doffy wouldn't let that happen. He'll attach himself to clouds or a building which she won't be able to see easily since those threads are extremely thin. Also we're forgetting the fact that Tatsumaki is extremely cocky and will not take Doffy seriously ( especially due to his 'wonderful' style of clothing. ) meanwhile Doffy will take the fight seriously and use his superior intellect to think of strategies to throw her off with. Also beats her in the stamina department.
Also literally in her profile under her weaknesses it states that someone with a strong enough will can resist her powers. And well, Doffy has extremely strong will.
Also Scarlet, well it's true that she's that much stronger than him her actual durability isn't anywhere near that high hence why she has "Large Island Level durability via barriers." Which makes me want to ask this. How many can she create and what's the size of the AoE of them? IIRC she never has shown the ability to actually create one that covers her entirely, if so please post a scan. If not this can be countered with Doffy's awakening. Which we've seen being able to attack from multiple directions. That being said they'd likely be able to get around her barriers and strike her body.
I think you're forgetting Doffy can also fly, so her range won't be too much of an issue unless she somehow finds out he's using the clouds and gets rid of them which ain't happening.
I've actually never seen Tatsumaki use her barriers while unconscious. Mind posting a scan of that? Also once Doffy sees that his threads can't break her barriers he'll simply attempt to get around them.
Also I've never seen Tatsumaki use multi directional attacks so if you could actually post a scan of that it'd be appreciated. And Doffy can also launch multi directional attacks with his awakening.
Once again, Doffy wouldn't let that happen. He'll attach himself to clouds or a building which she won't be able to see easily since those threads are extremely thin. Also we're forgetting the fact that Tatsumaki is extremely cocky and will not take Doffy seriously ( especially due to his 'wonderful' style of clothing. ) meanwhile Doffy will take the fight seriously and use his superior intellect to think of strategies to throw her off with. Also beats her in the stamina department.
Also literally in her profile under her weaknesses it states that someone with a strong enough will can resist her powers. And well, Doffy has extremely strong will.
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While she has gone to kill opponents, her overconfidence has led to some ridiculous outcomes. The fan monster for example, Tatsu thought she killed it, and thus decided that she could leave, but the monster was just fine. Other scenarios have led to opponents being able to retreat, or flat out escape.
And like I said, she has a weakness where her focus on attack leaves her vulnerable in defense, and it was explained more than once, and brought up by Psychos again later. And again, Tatsumaki has shown that she drops her guard on some occasions.
These traits leave me wondering why she'd flawlessly defeat Doflamingo in a battle scenario. He's not some tier 7 durability random that she can just kill out of boredom, and her page states that she can't TK someone to death if they have a strong will, unless you're attempting to suggest A) She has no such weakness, or B) Doflamingo has weak will power. If A, then why is it on her page?
And like I said, she has a weakness where her focus on attack leaves her vulnerable in defense, and it was explained more than once, and brought up by Psychos again later. And again, Tatsumaki has shown that she drops her guard on some occasions.
These traits leave me wondering why she'd flawlessly defeat Doflamingo in a battle scenario. He's not some tier 7 durability random that she can just kill out of boredom, and her page states that she can't TK someone to death if they have a strong will, unless you're attempting to suggest A) She has no such weakness, or B) Doflamingo has weak will power. If A, then why is it on her page?
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Tats via range
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Doflamingo should take this for the reasons stated above.
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I mean it's true, her range is several thousand kilometers her flight outclasses his by far.
As for the willpower thing, itd work on Golden sperm and the like, the only thing it failed on was Garou and Saitama.
Also, so what if he can control the theeads? Still not stopping them, the area and himself from being sent to space, she can overpower him and and the threads casually. Plus yeah shes confident abd tends to leave herself open, but ya dont thibk she'd learn by now?
As for the willpower thing, itd work on Golden sperm and the like, the only thing it failed on was Garou and Saitama.
Also, so what if he can control the theeads? Still not stopping them, the area and himself from being sent to space, she can overpower him and and the threads casually. Plus yeah shes confident abd tends to leave herself open, but ya dont thibk she'd learn by now?
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Knight, she turned Golden Sperms head into a twizzler. Hes defintly not fodder .
Her barriers are passive if i recall.
Her barriers are passive if i recall.
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1: Well that's true that she has better flight but Doffy can still handle her range with his own flight.
2: Scan of her using it on GS 100% easily? I'm positive it'll be much harder for her to TK Doffy than Golden Sperm or Saitama due to his absurd will power.
3: Well you see, once he connects himself to a cloud In mid air he'll simply pull himself away and off the piece of land she's throwing. With mobility and agility that Doffy has that won't be an issue. Also really how long can Tatsu keep that up before her stamina gives out? Doffy can outlast her easily.
Edit: J while she did that she did has great difficulty doing so due to his will. And someone like Doffy with immense will is gonna be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
2: Scan of her using it on GS 100% easily? I'm positive it'll be much harder for her to TK Doffy than Golden Sperm or Saitama due to his absurd will power.
3: Well you see, once he connects himself to a cloud In mid air he'll simply pull himself away and off the piece of land she's throwing. With mobility and agility that Doffy has that won't be an issue. Also really how long can Tatsu keep that up before her stamina gives out? Doffy can outlast her easily.
Edit: J while she did that she did has great difficulty doing so due to his will. And someone like Doffy with immense will is gonna be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
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@Knight
Doffy handling it better than Saitama is a joke. But Golden Sperm might as well be fodder in comparison to Doffy.
@J-Man - And no, Tatsumaki tried to break Golden's neck as shown around 2:55, and he resisted it despite being caught off guard. Granted, she was weakened, BUT Golden is still much lower than her peak.
Doffy handling it better than Saitama is a joke. But Golden Sperm might as well be fodder in comparison to Doffy.
@J-Man - And no, Tatsumaki tried to break Golden's neck as shown around 2:55, and he resisted it despite being caught off guard. Granted, she was weakened, BUT Golden is still much lower than her peak.
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@Cin yeah that's what I meant. Did it seem like I was implying Doffy > Saitama? : P
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@Blanked - I suppose it is the point, considering that some say Doffy would be a pretzel in a mere second, while others say it wont work on him at all.
I say TK would be able to affect him, but killing him in an instant is the biggest joke, especially when he has the advantage of preparing for it via pre-cog, and he doesn't need to move his physical body to attack Tatsumaki. As I've been saying, while he's standing there, possibly being thrashed or under pressure of Tatsumaki's TK, his threads would be moving through him merely willing it. His thread regen and using haki to bolster his defense to some degree also increases his chances of survival, especially when I don't see Tatsu ever popping off his head like he's a twig.
I say TK would be able to affect him, but killing him in an instant is the biggest joke, especially when he has the advantage of preparing for it via pre-cog, and he doesn't need to move his physical body to attack Tatsumaki. As I've been saying, while he's standing there, possibly being thrashed or under pressure of Tatsumaki's TK, his threads would be moving through him merely willing it. His thread regen and using haki to bolster his defense to some degree also increases his chances of survival, especially when I don't see Tatsu ever popping off his head like he's a twig.
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Her range is litterally a thousand times better, he cant do anything if she decides to kite.
I was wrong, she tried to use it, twisted his neck a bit but failed (she ripped apart an earlier forms though), its irrelevant though, she was massively weakened here and wog states if she was at full power shed have killed him. But i did find a scan of her being massuvely weakened yet erecting full body barriers the instant she was attacked by him. Also why are we using the will power thing the only time it actually did nothing was when it was against 5-B opponents .
And she cant part the clouds? Or when she tk'd him simply break the strings? She's 50% above him with a hand gesture, if she wanted him gone hes gone, no amount of connecting to things will save him wgen her tk can send everything hes conected to with him, or simply just send him flying with enough power to break the strings. Also pull himself away? She can still tk him there.
Also her stamina is good, can spam tk for like 30 minutes with no consequence and continued fighting the monster association despite being massively weakened, her psychic powers explicitly nerfed and being a bloody mess. And then even continued attacking Garou.
I was wrong, she tried to use it, twisted his neck a bit but failed (she ripped apart an earlier forms though), its irrelevant though, she was massively weakened here and wog states if she was at full power shed have killed him. But i did find a scan of her being massuvely weakened yet erecting full body barriers the instant she was attacked by him. Also why are we using the will power thing the only time it actually did nothing was when it was against 5-B opponents .
And she cant part the clouds? Or when she tk'd him simply break the strings? She's 50% above him with a hand gesture, if she wanted him gone hes gone, no amount of connecting to things will save him wgen her tk can send everything hes conected to with him, or simply just send him flying with enough power to break the strings. Also pull himself away? She can still tk him there.
Also her stamina is good, can spam tk for like 30 minutes with no consequence and continued fighting the monster association despite being massively weakened, her psychic powers explicitly nerfed and being a bloody mess. And then even continued attacking Garou.
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Regenerationn doesn't matter Cin or defense boosting, that matters why ? BFR doesn't do anything about defenses.
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@J
1: Because it's specifically in her weaknesses. If you disagree make a CRT.
2: Never said she couldn't part the clouds, but rather she won't be able to realize that Doffy is using them for his flight so she won't get rid of them. And yes I'm aware of her superior AP but it'll be weakened to a great extent to do his immense will power mix that in with his ability to connect to clouds while it's happening he can simply reel himself away from where she's trying to toss him. And he can create these threads casually and seemingly to an unlimited amount. Also if we take Bird Cage into consideration I have serious doubts she'd be able to break it since Fujitora couldn't.
3: Pretty sure that fails in comparison to what Doffy has tanked and continued to fight. Literally had his internal organs essentially destroyed, lost a massive amount of blood from said attack, got stomped right in the same spot where he took the same attack that ****** his organs up and continued to fight and slap Luffy ( Another High 6-C ) around causally until he went G4 but even then it took a KKG to out the nail in the coffin. I think it's safe to say Doffy has much better stamina.
1: Because it's specifically in her weaknesses. If you disagree make a CRT.
2: Never said she couldn't part the clouds, but rather she won't be able to realize that Doffy is using them for his flight so she won't get rid of them. And yes I'm aware of her superior AP but it'll be weakened to a great extent to do his immense will power mix that in with his ability to connect to clouds while it's happening he can simply reel himself away from where she's trying to toss him. And he can create these threads casually and seemingly to an unlimited amount. Also if we take Bird Cage into consideration I have serious doubts she'd be able to break it since Fujitora couldn't.
3: Pretty sure that fails in comparison to what Doffy has tanked and continued to fight. Literally had his internal organs essentially destroyed, lost a massive amount of blood from said attack, got stomped right in the same spot where he took the same attack that ****** his organs up and continued to fight and slap Luffy ( Another High 6-C ) around causally until he went G4 but even then it took a KKG to out the nail in the coffin. I think it's safe to say Doffy has much better stamina.
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Blanked said:
Dude yes they were literally blown apart, he used his threads to keep them together. Which I'll remind you cannot truly repair damage and doesn't do anything about the blood lost in the process.
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