Zenless Zone Zero Discussion Thread

[MaskedDragon908]

Looks good. The acceleration end should get accepted. There's no reason to choose the work end over it here so there's that (because it's a matter of different formula's as opposed to a low end and high end). No idea how many people this scales to tho.

Anyone know any good LS feats? Nicole has pseudo black holes so I figured she'd have smth. Anything involving something huge has potential for good LS stuff. Throwing stuff annd destroying structures by doing that also get good LS.

Actually, Masked has been planning to calculate the force required for Greta to jump around.
Greta is the In-Hollow Boring Machine Mark III, and tunnel boring machines tend to be quite heavy, even if she is lacking her cutterhead.
Her weight (around 60 to 160 tons), in addition to the 1400 kg demolition saw she carries around, can be launched into the air by her legs.
If Masked recalls correctly, the rogue Belobog construction machines have stomp attacks that can be parried, so Belobog characters should scale to at least a quarter of the force required.

Masked was mostly just trying to determine which weight would be more accurate, although they could do different ends.
In addition, they need to check which of her attacks can be parried.

 

[Naito-desu]

All done.
Please tell Masked if there are any errors.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MaskedDragon908/Calculation_for_ZZZ:_Banyue_Lifts_Rock

This should be fine but much like the earthbending feat, idk if this is actually a scalable feat to the VH since it's done via earthbending.

Actually, Masked has been planning to calculate the force required for Greta to jump around.
Greta is the In-Hollow Boring Machine Mark III, and tunnel boring machines tend to be quite heavy, even if she is lacking her cutterhead.
Her weight (around 60 to 160 tons), in addition to the 1400 kg demolition saw she carries around, can be launched into the air by her legs.
If Masked recalls correctly, the rogue Belobog construction machines have stomp attacks that can be parried, so Belobog characters should scale to at least a quarter of the force required.

Masked was mostly just trying to determine which weight would be more accurate, although they could do different ends.
In addition, they need to check which of her attacks can be parried.

Greta's saw weighs 1,400 kg. Idk what the weight of her frame would be but I don't think what you linked is necessarily applicable. You should look up mobile drilling rigs since these are actually moving machines that carry massive drills.

 

[MaskedDragon908]

This should be fine but much like the earthbending feat, idk if this is actually a scalable feat to the VH since it's done via earthbending.

Thank you for the evaluation.
Yes, as was agreed earlier, this will solely be for Banyue's profile.
It's possible we get a feat where it becomes scalable, but that's currently a only a hypothetical.

Greta's saw weighs 1,400 kg. Idk what the weight of her frame would be but I don't think what you linked is necessarily applicable. You should look up mobile drilling rigs since these are actually moving machines that carry massive drills.

Yes, 1400 kg, as Masked listed. It's remarkably light for its size.

Mobile Drilling Rigs aren't generally used to excavate tunnels.
Greta is specifically a Tunnel Boring Machine.

Grace: Ah, this is it. This is where the signal came from... that child... In-Hollow Boring Machine Mark III, Greta.

Grace: Okay. To put it into words the average human can understand — it's a machine responsible for excavating tunnels. To work faster, it's also equipped with a demolition saw used to tear down buildings!

A normal mobile drilling rig isn't sturdy enough to support the weight of a cutterhead, which generally weighs more than the assembly.
The source that Masked linked is the gross weight for the assembly of a tunnel boring machine, excluding the cutterhead.

To be fair: Masked doesn't know how Greta excavates tunnels.
Grace only ever mentions her using the demolition saw, which is why Masked wants to only use the weight of the assembly.
She's still a tunnel boring machine, so this should theoretically be fine.
However, if you are against it, then Masked will drop it.

Also, Masked wanted to ask about the use of fishing as a LS feat.
The whale sharks Phaethon hauls out of the ocean can reach a weight of 2000 kilograms, according to the wiki.
The largest one Masked has fished up was 1998 kg.
Would there be a way to calculate the force needed to fish them out of the water?

 

[Sooshirohl]

Anyone know any good LS feats? Nicole has pseudo black holes so I figured she'd have smth. Anything innvolving something huge has potential for good LS stuff. Throwing stuff annd destroying structures by doing that also get good LS.

off the top of my head there's grappler throwing a decently sized boulder pretty damn fast at belobog. there's also belobog's machinery being strong enough to casually lift and chuck shipping containers

outside of that uhhhh, nothing comes to mind immediately if i'm being honest lol. i'd probably have to dig more to find some stuff but LS feats are something we are sorta lacking in (although we did just get a pretty good one for yixuan/other VH tiers)

on a semi-related note, i was going through older cutscenes and unfathomable tanks this pretty decently sized explosion. earlier on in the chapter we also see manato and alice cut through a pretty large door. it's a bit hard to make out but i think you can get a gauge of it's general height as well as it's depth from the pieces that break off of it (also i do not remember alice or yuzuha being strong enough to straight up parry attacks against unfathomable in this chapter im ngl )

there's also seed sr. making this big ass explosion by divebombing the ground

 

[Naito-desu]

It's possible we get a feat where it becomes scalable, but that's currently a only a hypothetical.

It's possible. I mean, the Yixuan Miasma feat lowkey could be calced to account for downwards force of falling

A normal mobile drilling rig isn't sturdy enough to support the weight of a cutterhead, which generally weighs more than the assembly.
The source that Masked linked is the gross weight for the assembly of a tunnel boring machine, excluding the cutterhead.

To be fair: Masked doesn't know how Greta excavates tunnels.
Grace only ever mentions her using the demolition saw, which is why Masked wants to only use the weight of the assembly.
She's still a tunnel boring machine, so this should theoretically be fine.
However, if you are against it, then Masked will drop it.

If that's the case, you'd kind of have to ask what machine has a 1.4 ton drill/saw. Tunnel-boring machines irl are more tubular so they're not really applicable to something like Greta so I wouldn't really use it. It has to be something like this. But regardless, it's really up in the air.

Also, Masked wanted to ask about the use of fishing as a LS feat.
The whale sharks Phaethon hauls out of the ocean can reach a weight of 2000 kilograms, according to the wiki.
The largest one Masked has fished up was 1998 kg.
Would there be a way to calculate the force needed to fish them out of the water?

The weight of a fish is buoyed by the water until it has to be reeled out. When it's out of the water, you have to lift the whole weight but Idk anything that would significantly raise this without further context on how they're fished out.

 

[Naito-desu]

outside of that uhhhh, nothing comes to mind immediately if i'm being honest lol. i'd probably have to dig more to find some stuff but LS feats are something we are sorta lacking in (although we did just get a pretty good one for yixuan/other VH tiers)

Caesar throwing Mors' bike is also pretty impressive but idk if it's breaking Class M. Anton punching and sending a container flying. Also Anton holding back the machine are probably good ones. The issue with ZZZ is how so much of the cool LS stuff is hard to calc because of the fact that so many cutscenes use things with zero to no correspondence with irl like how do we know how much a mech weighs?

 

[Naito-desu]

Caesar throwing Mors' bike is also pretty impressive but idk if it's breaking Class M

I'm pretty sure this takes place in a specific Outer Ring map because we can just get the arc of the throw via the bridge

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

also devs dropped this and it had a lot of cool info. new phaethon ability called the "etheric other," confirmation of roscaelifer being our season 3 destination (even though it was pretty obvious), confirmation of the wind element debuting in season 3, a bigger focus on combat gameplay, optimizations for old character buffs and hollow zero, more casual events and ways to help new players get into the game, etc etc.

all the new stuff looks dope, and i'm really digging roscaelifer's vibe off the teaser images they showed. very excited for season 3, really hoping we get a character teaser soon similar to what they gave us for season 2

Is it just me, or is Roscaelifer based on Britain? It might just be because they showed a futuristic version of those red buses that I don't know the name of, but that was the vibe I got from it.

 

[Naito-desu]

Is it just me, or is Roscaelifer based on Britain? It might just be because they showed a futuristic version of those red buses that I don't know the name of, but that was the vibe I got from it.

The double decker bus/tram abomination literally has Cuppa on it, you can't get more British than that lol

 

[LaserPrecision]

off the top of my head there's grappler throwing a decently sized boulder pretty damn fast at belobog.

Calc the size of the boulder, calc the frag or v frag of it (whatever seems more appropriate), and then divide the energy by the distannce the machine spunn the rock before tossing it. I imagine Class K at least. Class M is a bit generous due to its long arc, but feasible I suppose.

there's also belobog's machinery being strong enough to casually lift and chuck shipping containers

He flings the seconnd shipping container up tens of meters very quickly (in a few frames). Calc the velocity (or if possible even the KE), and then calc acceleration (or use work via the KE). Remember, the acceleration is only the distannce the machine is in contact with the shipping container because that's the only amount of time it can accelerate as it's being imparted with momentum.

outside of that uhhhh, nothing comes to mind immediately if i'm being honest lol. i'd probably have to dig more to find some stuff but LS feats are something we are sorta lacking in (although we did just get a pretty good one for yixuan/other VH tiers)

Wow, I'm genuinely impressed Nicole uses black holes and those have zero LS feats. Those are usually what would give the best stuff via pulling in heavy things from a distance.

on a semi-related note, i was going through older cutscenes and unfathomable tanks this pretty decently sized explosion. earlier on in the chapter we also see manato and alice cut through a pretty large door. it's a bit hard to make out but i think you can get a gauge of it's general height as well as it's depth from the pieces that break off of it (also i do not remember alice or yuzuha being strong enough to straight up parry attacks against unfathomable in this chapter im ngl )

there's also seed sr. making this big ass explosion by divebombing the ground

I dunno if you were trying to ask if any of these qualify as LS, but they don't. However, that last feat looks like a good speed feat. Playing it frame by frame, the mech actually jumps away from the explosion as it happens. She's moving quicker than the explosion. Someone could calc that. It'd be a pretty notable speed upgrade.

The weight of a fish is buoyed by the water until it has to be reeled out. When it's out of the water, you have to lift the whole weight but Idk anything that would significantly raise this without further context on how they're fished out.

Well if someone yanked a fish out of water at absurdly high speed (Superhuman levels obviously) it would require a lot of force because they are accelerating its mass (not its weight). I dunno if they do pull it out really quickly, but I imagine any result it gets wouldn't break beyond Class 1.

Caesar throwing Mors' bike is also pretty impressive but idk if it's breaking Class M.

How big is the bike? If it's normal size I can't imagine it even breaks Class K, let alone M (Unless the bike shattered or smth from being thrown).

Anton punching and sending a container flying.

You can't calc LS from feats involving punching. That's strictly AP.

Also Anton holding back the machine are probably good ones.

That seems good.

The issue with ZZZ is how so much of the cool LS stuff is hard to calc because of the fact that so many cutscenes use things with zero to no correspondence with irl like how do we know how much a mech weighs?

If all the good feats are locked behind things with no irl analogue, just calc the volume and mass yourself. That's what most verse's do with mechs and large machines. If there IS a real like analogue, just calc its size and then use square cube law to get its mass.

 

[Sooshirohl]

I dunno if you were trying to ask if any of these qualify as LS, but they don't. However, that last feat looks like a good speed feat. Playing it frame by frame, the mech actually jumps away from the explosion as it happens. She's moving quicker than the explosion. Someone could calc that. It'd be a pretty notable speed upgrade.

nah i wasn't, was just listing them off as possible AP feats, though the seed feat being a possible speed feat is cool

Wow, I'm genuinely impressed Nicole uses black holes and those have zero LS feats. Those are usually what would give the best stuff via pulling in heavy things from a distance.

she just doesn't actually fight like, ever in cutscenes or even comic stills, which is a little disappointing lol. although in anby's character teaser, we do see her use her black hole to suck in two cars and make them explode

 

[LaserPrecision]

she just doesn't actually fight like, ever in cutscenes or even comic stills, which is a little disappointing lol. although in anby's character teaser, we do see her use her black hole to suck in two cars and make them explode

Well it does basically invert their momentum from top speed instantly (in 1 frame, with the video being 30fps). And that's from the edge of the Black Hole's gravitational pull making inverse square law applicable (for finding its LS at the epicenter or at its edge, etc.) Alternatively it's also possible to calc it smashing the cars together hard enough to blow them up via work like before.

 

[Naito-desu]

Calc the size of the boulder, calc the frag or v frag of it (whatever seems more appropriate), and then divide the energy by the distannce the machine spunn the rock before tossing it. I imagine Class K at least. Class M is a bit generous due to its long arc, but feasible I suppose.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Naito-desu/ZZZ:_Anton_blocks_a_flying_boulder

I did the math for AP but not for LS, but the values in this blog can be reused for this

 

[LaserPrecision]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Naito-desu/ZZZ:_Anton_blocks_a_flying_boulder

I did the math for AP but not for LS, but the values in this blog can be reused for this

You calc'd the AP for KE. But what about the boulder blowing up? That might just be outright better than the KE, no?

Anyways, there's two things to calc the LS of.
1. The Robot for tossing it (Which can be done with Work)
2. The dude who tanked the boulder (Can also be done with work. You just use the distacne he was pushed back by the boulder. If he didn't move any notable amount, you just assume a distance too small to perceive arbitrarily like 1cm, etc.)

 

[Naito-desu]

The robot did like a semicircle swing with its arm but I can't measure it right now but at some point I will. Anton Ivanov pretty much no-sold it, so you'd have to go with something like 1cm anyway for the displacement

 

[Naito-desu]

Did the Anton end and it was about 5k tons so Class M

 

[LaserPrecision]

Did the Anton end and it was about 5k tons so Class M

Checks out

 

[MaskedDragon908]

Did the Anton end and it was about 5k tons so Class M

Masked tried calculating it a different way in their blog, based on a calculation Dalesean027 made.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MaskedDragon908/Calculation_for_ZZZ:_Anton%27s_LS

Do you think it's useable?

 

[Sooshirohl]

since we're on the topic of finding more feats to calc for the verse, does anyone have any notable speed feats that come to mind? would be nice to get more of those since even the top tiers are kinda just upscaling the hypersonic bullet timing atm

 

[BiggestOpp]

since we're on the topic of finding more feats to calc for the verse, does anyone have any notable speed feats that come to mind? would be nice to get more of those since even the top tiers are kinda just upscaling the hypersonic bullet timing atm

Banyue has a flash time esque feat, Miyabi has that one feat against Nineveh but it’s almost impossible to calc. I can’t think of anything outside of those two.

 

[Sooshirohl]

Banyue has a flash time esque feat, Miyabi has that one feat against Nineveh but it’s almost impossible to calc. I can’t think of anything outside of those two.

there's obviously a lot of bullet timing stuff but i don't think any of it would be faster than the hypersonic stuff we have off the top of my head. at least in cutscenes/cinematics anyways, i don't recall there being a whoooole lot of super notable speed feats outside of standard bullet timing but i'd probably have to go through the cutscenes/demos and stuff to refresh my memory

 

[BiggestOpp]

there's obviously a lot of bullet timing stuff but i don't think any of it would be faster than the hypersonic stuff we have off the top of my head. at least in cutscenes/cinematics anyways, i don't recall there being a whoooole lot of super notable speed feats outside of standard bullet timing but i'd probably have to go through the cutscenes/demos and stuff to refresh my memory

This feat here is definitely in the HH range. Banyue doesn’t just view them in slow motion, he completely statue the ethereals. Like they’re not moving at all, literal PNGS.

I’m not going to pixel scale it out of pure laziness but assuming these guys were running towards Banyue at superhuman speed (12m/s)
And only accounting for the punches Banyue threw 9-10 (I’ll just say 10m for simplicity sake).
The feat happens in 38 frames so 6.3m/s.
Speed= (12/.00275)*6.3=27,490.909m/s.
Dropping down to .01m/s
(12/.01)*6.3=7,560m/s.

Obviously this is pocket math but it can only get faster, if Naito feels up to it it’d nice to see it properly calced

 

[LaserPrecision]

Masked tried calculating it a different way in their blog, based on a calculation Dalesean027 made.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MaskedDragon908/Calculation_for_ZZZ:_Anton%27s_LS

Do you think it's useable?

I don't think this is applicable for numerous reasons
1. The rock fragments, it's not compressed, so compressive strength can't be used (Compressive strength is the pulv value on the wiki btw)
2. It uses the entire area of the boulder despite the fact it only ever comes into contact from one side by a limited surface area

I think work from energy route is safer overall and also just makes more sense in this context.

Miyabi has that one feat against Nineveh but it’s almost impossible to calc.

What's almost impossible to calc about it?

 

[BiggestOpp]

What's almost impossible to calc about it?

Measuring the total distance she traveled.
You could lowball the feat and just count how many goons are in this scene

Find an average distance between them and then use that to find Miyabi’s speed.
It’s a massive lowball though? Because we see that there’s so many goons that she doesnt defeat them all until she reached Nineveh’s position.
The scene is just too chaotic and flashy to calculate exactly how many goons she killed and the total distance she traveled.

 

[Doggo]

Im a HSR player but YT keeps putting this game in my feed just cuz its a Hoyo game lol

 

[BiggestOpp]

Im a HSR player but YT keeps putting this game in my feed just cuz its a Hoyo game lol

ZZZ better so you might as well switch to the good side

 

[Sooshirohl]

Measuring the total distance she traveled.
You could lowball the feat and just count how many goons are in this scene

Find an average distance between them and then use that to find Miyabi’s speed.
It’s a massive lowball though? Because we see that there’s so many goons that she doesnt defeat them all until she reached Nineveh’s position.
The scene is just too chaotic and flashy to calculate exactly how many goons she killed and the total distance she traveled.

oh yeah, this scene is probably the most impressive speed feat we have in the series but i don't think it's really possible to calc, or at the very least it'd probably be extremely hard to do so

 

[Doggo]

ZZZ better so you might as well switch to the good side

I will once I get a better device.

Insane fan service tho, HSR aint got allat in that category


So where is this verse going to scale-wise?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Im a HSR player but YT keeps putting this game in my feed just cuz its a Hoyo game lol

Lol

I will once I get a better device.

Insane fan service tho, HSR aint got allat in that category


So where is this verse going to scale-wise?

7-C to High 7-C at the peak

AKA, based tiers

 

[Doggo]

Lol

7-C to High 7-C at the peak

AKA, based tiers

I did NOT expect you here. What a jumpscare lmao

 

[Sooshirohl]

So where is this verse going to scale-wise?

i think (and hope) it probably won't go anywhere past like the country-continental ranges as far as AP goes. ZZZ is definitely a lot more grounded in comparison to both genshin and HSR and i hope it stays that way

 

[DaReaperMan]

I did NOT expect you here. What a jumpscare lmao

I actually was hunting for matches but that went **** up so I'm just following the thread now.

Not to say I have no experience in ZZZ, but like most mobile games it's not something I play regularly.

 

[Doggo]

i think (and hope) it probably won't go anywhere past like the country-continental ranges as far as AP goes. ZZZ is definitely a lot more grounded in comparison to both genshin and HSR and i hope it stays that way

I don't play the game, but I do like the urban setting, so I hope it's forever locked up in tier 7 lol

HSR is honestly suffering the Invincible issue due to its large scale (went from slaying a literal universe buster to struggling against literal HIGH SCHOOLERS )

 

[Sooshirohl]

I don't play the game, but I do like the urban setting, so I hope it's forever locked up in tier 7 lol

as long as we stay within the tier 7-6 ranges of AP and we have some good hax i'll be satisfied

 

[BiggestOpp]

Since we’re on the topic, let’s talk about how much AURA Miyabi has

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

I don't play the game, but I do like the urban setting, so I hope it's forever locked up in tier 7 lol

I'm fine with whatever tier as long as it outscales another Gacha Verse I immensely dislike (which it currently doesn't )

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't play the game, but I do like the urban setting, so I hope it's forever locked up in tier 7 lol

HSR is honestly suffering the Invincible issue due to its large scale (went from slaying a literal universe buster to struggling against literal HIGH SCHOOLERS )

Honkai Cringe Rail you mean, ******* mention planet busting in the prologue boss.

 

[Doggo]

I'm fine with whatever tier as long as it outscales another Gacha Verse I immensely dislike (which it currently doesn't )

What gacha lol

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

What gacha lol

it's definitely not a hoyoverse game that's for sure

 

[Doggo]

mention planet busting in the prologue boss.

Can't even bust a space station btw