Yukari Yakumo vs Rick Sanchez

[Andykhang]

^... because she could read his thought, feeling, his entire being the moment this match is propose? Because she could do that with her boundary. More over, she have enough intelligent and insight to actually understand his wisdom (and if she doesn't have enough, there's still boundary to help), and the boundary between reality and fantasy to help with the gadget and resource.

Saying this would push the boundary of speculation though.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

And again, what stops Rick from finding a way from counteracting her powers completely and making them useless the moment the fight starts?

Prep matches in general push the boundary of speculation.

 

[Andykhang]

^Because again, what stop her from building the countermeasure just for that? And again, that device would need to be able to block everything, that isn't going to be easy to build, and just a slight misinformation would completely make such a device useless. And information warfare is, again, one of Yukari's forte.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

And what's stopping Rick for making the countermeasures for that? See the problem here?

Rick, again, created Universe altering/destroying devices in his spare time for fun, that alone should tell you he's intelligent enough to pull it off.

What's stopping him for making a countermeasure to Yukari spying on him? Considering he has the resources and the intelligence to do just that.

His prep has a MUCH higher tier range than Yukari does, assuming she can do the same is ridiculous.

Unless you show me something that shows Yukari can be Low 2-C or 2-A with prep, I'm not gonna be convinced anytime soon.

 

[Andykhang]

^Because she could do that way faster than him building countermeasure for it? Remember that her brain is fast enough to do that and could be amped up even further with Boundary? Beside, it's not like everyday you would meet a boundary-controlling monster you know.

And yeah, this would turn into who could build countermeasures faster, again. This would turn into inconclusive at this rate.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

And again, you're assuming she can make countermeasures better than Rick. You're not giving me actual prep feats or WoG statements that are in the same level as Rick. THIS is why I'm not convinced.

It's also not everyday you meet a crazy drunk sociopath with access to 4-D technology and the ability to create Universe altering/destroying devices for the hck of it, and possibly one that can alter/destroy the Multiverse either.

That's very prep fight ever.

 

[Andykhang]

To be honest, it's not like we know if she even met such an opponent that would require that level of prep. Because with her power, she could just supertask herself into making antimatter, creating impossible thing such as a perpeptual machine, and building a freking verse .

And again, same amount of knowledge remember? With that combine with her ability (again), she could just build a hyperbolic time chamber (like Rick) to build and improve it even better.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Saying things like that is a No-Limits Fallacy . Also, Rick already did all that stuff, not really special.

 

[Andykhang]

^And again, same amount of knowledge remember due to her pulling out information faster than him? With that combine with her ability (again), she could just build a hyperbolic time chamber (like Rick) to build and improve it even better.

And yeah... so, inconclusive I guess?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Getting information faster than someone =/= Same level of intelligence, I can get more info on a topic than someone, doesn't mean I'll learn and understand as easily or faster than them. ESPECIALLY if the person in question has better prep feats than the other by a long shot.

That is again, a No-Limits Fallacy. No feat or statement to support this at all. Not buying it. Yukai having the same knowledge as Rick is a Fallacy, especially to the level Rick has in intelligence.

STILL going for Rick. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

You might be wrong on that Marvel. Shikigamis by themselves are already mathemathical geniuses who can find out formulas for immensely difficult problems. Calculating the Sanzu River which is said to be close to impossible is something Ran Yakumo did. By Gensokyo's terms and even to the outside world, they're super geniuses.

And somehow she cannot comprehend Yukari Yakumo's intelligence who can calculate 1000 variables in a second. It's like comparing a baby to an adult. Someone who's already known to be a supergenius is completely overshadowed by Yukari Yakumo, who is like Rick, lazy and never makes full use of their powers.


Oh Boundary Manipulation should be countered? Well the thing is... There are several WoG statements regarding the power of that.

Yukari's ability is the "manipulation of boundaries". It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything. Naturally, if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game, so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Yukari_Yakumo,_Ran_Yakumo,_and_Che

Yukari states in her own win quotes in Immaterial and Missing Power that she has no weaknesses, and even shooting, cutting, stabbing, hitting, or killing her is useless.

Her Imperishable Night profile also states that "she easily has enough power to annihilate all of Gensokyo if she so desires"[6], while the manual says that"the danger and power of her ability is beyond imagination".[7]

This is part of the world that can also make people cease to exist by erasing past, present and future, manipulating fate, manipulating life and death, unleash nukes, make parallel worlds (Toyosatomimi) that have the moon and a planet nearby.

One correction though. Fart, the cloud that you were talking about being a higher dimension, is from another dimension. However it's the same issue as comparing science and magic. He needed anti-matter to kill the gaseous being sure, but Yukari has access to that too. With ease.

I'm not trying to say Yukari wins tbh, although I do side with her. Naturally Touhou is vague and frankly I agree with you on prep time debates. However it still doesn't hold the fact that Rick is prone to mistakes too. How does one exactly counter bounder manipulation? And what if Yukari pulls out another trick that counters what counters the bounder manipulation. Which in turn reveals Rick has a trump card for and Yukari has a trump card for again and then again- it's literally the battle of ass pull trump cards. Sides, Yukari still has the 2-D based ability and the capability to escape with the range of her gaps.

But I'm saying that WoG statements in Touhou exists too.

Oh and still believing it's a tie, slightly leaning on Yukari.

 

[Andykhang]

^Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that Gensokyo is in itself another universe on it own, that would mean the feat she pulled would mean wiping out a 4-D construct.

How can I debate like you do, COB.

edit: For proof that it's another universe: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Dr._Latency's_Freak_Report/Story

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I am REALLY proud of myself for this match. Pat on the back, me.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

@CoreOfimBalance

I see. Thank you for the info, COB. Much appreciated.

I know Rick is prone to mistakes, as his reckless and drunkness make him do so, but he's no slouch either.

The Sanzu River and calculating 1000 variables in a second is very impressive, though I still personally don't find it as impressive as creating an infinite space-time continuum and use it as a battery, a device that merges universes or making a device that freezes time on a universal scale, these being casual stuff Rick made for the heck of it. Or destroying an inifinite Multiverse if he wanted to.

As I said, Boundary Manipulation is a VERY potent hax and difficult to counter, but Rick has experienced and met other worldly beings before and his equipment is extremely advanced, so if anyone can create a counter to that I believe Rick can be one of them. Not to mention there ARE limitations to Boundary Manipulation, whether or not Rick can capitalize on those limitations is hard to say.

On that note, I'll say it's a tie as well, due to the nature of Yukari's Bounday powers, but I'm slightly leaning towards Rick.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, is everyone saying inconclusive?

 

[Andykhang]

^Yeah, probably. I, COB,Kuro, and some others lean on Yukari while Marvel,Xanix and others is on Rick side.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Marvel Oh the Sanzu River and 1000 variables are something sh does in a whim, without a train of thought. She can actually calculate the volume of the Sanzu River and other things. But I agree, and yet at the same time I disagree. Although similar both are a bit different. On one hand Ricky's genius clearly shows on the science side and use of logic to make grand/epic things happen. While Yukari shines on defining the improbable or impossible. Both are geniuses, on their own fields I mean. Although I do agree on Rick's WoG being more impressive due to being more clearer.

Indeed it is but I once considered the troubles that gave Yukari on that. By technicality she hasn't lost against the Watatsukis and actually faked her defeat. On another hand she created Gensokyo didn't she but doesn't she live in a place that's between Gensokyo and who knows what? Zun only said no one in Gensokyo can touch the lunarians and on the limitations of having to travel to the moon, it could've been the boundaries of space being used in order to 'stealthily' go there instead of just charging in. But that's speculation and whether you interpret it as fact or not is up to you, and I agree that capitalizing on those would be the answer to whether Rick can counter the boundaries or not.

No trouble there. I love both characters and frankly I imagine a tie being more satisfactory anyway,

@Andy

Simple, by perform the arts of "Yukkuri shiteitte ne!"

In all seriousness it's basically acknowledging every source you can have and finding out more. Then again I'm not really debating here more like showing those details that people missed.

@Real cal

Looks like it. Shall we put it in their profiles or wait a bit? And here let me pat you too. Suikaaaaa! Give Real cal a giant pat!

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lol. I'll request it in a few hours, just in case anyone else wants to respond.

 

[Andykhang]

^Remember to put out the vote list so that they could know how much people vote.

Edit: Vote pun optional

 

[Andykhang]

@COB: And actually, the fan one doesn't defeat her either, but rather force her into surrender by making a threat against Gensokyo. She knew Yukari isn't going to go down easily.

 

[Andykhang]

it's literally the battle of ass pull trump cards.

Wonder if as some point in their fight, Yukari is just going to pulled out a "counter everything" button she made earlier in the boundary of Fantasy. I mean it sound probable...

 

[XxXDeadSmokeXxX]

...I think it's best we say it's just inconclusive while the debates still in the calm

 

[Andykhang]

Like the Sea of Tranquility, debate are only calm on papers. (yes, I just read xkcd today, why did you ask?)

jk aside, did we have enough input for this already?

 

[XxXDeadSmokeXxX]

Yeah.. I've seen enough to determine it's a tie, they're just gonna counter everything and either keep battling till one of them decides to quit, end up killing eachother, give up or basically destroy everything around them anyway..

 

[Andykhang]

We need a minimum of seven though....Guess we have enough