Yugi Muto intelligence upgrade

[Syncornize]

Hi
From the name of the thread you can clearly guess my intent, so I'll try to be brief.
Recently a giant messy CRT was made, where I expressed my oponion about it. So I thought of making shorter CRTs to adjust the profile and simplify the evaluation.
Having knowledge about the verse and the rules in place on this verse I think I am one of the best people to make and possibly evaluate changes

The Kaiba Corporation "supercomputer" takes approximately 6 hours to complete and assemble the millennium puzzle. It's a machine that scans every single piece at every single point with extreme precision, and then searches for the correct combination of the various pieces passed through the scanner. As reported in the scan "a perfect assembly simulation is possible from every angle". The computer made approximately 21 billion attempts before it was able to complete the puzzle.

Yugi manages to complete most of the puzzle in just a few minutes. under high pressure, as the building was now on fire and the gases caused by the fire are harmful for a human to breathe. The feat drastically surpasses the machinery of the Kaiba Corporetion. Ultimately, this feat should easily qualify as Extraordinary Genius.

PS.
Unfortunately I can't upload the clip of the episode, if Yugi's statement isn't enough I can provide the episode in question

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

While Yugi did complete the puzzle under high pressure and all, this was after he had already completed it beforehand, an attempt that took him years, so the feat is fairly lower than presented.

Other than that, it's definitely a notable occurrence. I can see an "at least Genius", but wouldn't oppose EG.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While Yugi did complete the puzzle under high pressure and all, this was after he had already completed it beforehand, an attempt that took him years, so the feat is fairly lower than presented.

Other than that, it's definitely a notable occurrence. I can see an "at least Genius", but wouldn't oppose EG.

Agreed

 

[Syncornize]

While Yugi did complete the puzzle under high pressure and all, this was after he had already completed it beforehand, an attempt that took him years, so the feat is fairly lower than presented.

Other than that, it's definitely a notable occurrence. I can see an "at least Genius", but wouldn't oppose EG.

Agreed

Yugi initially manages to complete the puzzle in about 8 years. so he begins it at 6 years to complete it at 14, rightly making various attempts and combinations

Assuming that he was in total focus h24 he would task the equivalent of 800 "scans" for second of the puzzle ( which is obviously not true ) .
Consider that he starts as a relatively young child and does not employ all his focus to its completion, due to various commitments and obligations, school.

We know that if he is there 1/4 of the day the result is 3200 scans for second, another obviously implausible assumption.

(one scan is equal to multiple operations and reasoning, so a scan is a set of information and calculations)

 

[Passersby]

While Yugi did complete the puzzle under high pressure and all, this was after he had already completed it beforehand, an attempt that took him years, so the feat is fairly lower than presented.

ehh..his ability to process infromation seems far too good, even assuming he took 10 years to complete it without needing to sleep eat or take a break and about just as many attempts as the super compute, that's 2,1 billions attempts a year or ~67 attempts in a single second

is that really not enough for a EG rating?
that's damn impressive

 

[Passersby]

(one scan is equal to multiple operations and reasoning, so a scan is a set of information and calculations)

this makes it even more amazing, i really don't see how this isn't enough for EG

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

ehh..his ability to process infromation seems far too good, even assuming he took 10 years to complete it without needing to sleep eat or take a break and about just as many attempts as the super compute, that's 2,1 billions attempts a year or ~67 attempts in a single second

is that really not enough for a EG rating?
that's damn impressive

It is impressive, I am not discounting it. But again, to be kept in mind, he only "outperformed" the supercomputer in this instance because he already had the experience of having done it beforehand.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Like, if you guys want a proper EG feat from the same movie: Kaiba's computer can't fully emulate Atem's dueling prowess, which Yugi scales above for beating him.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

ehh..his ability to process infromation seems far too good, even assuming he took 10 years to complete it without needing to sleep eat or take a break and about just as many attempts as the super compute, that's 2,1 billions attempts a year or ~67 attempts in a single second

is that really not enough for a EG rating?
that's damn impressive

There is a big problem there, a computer doesn't see the puzzle as an whole like a human does, the computer picks piece 1 and then attemps to connect to piece 2 through X and keeps going like that until it finds the last solution, Yugi as a human can understand what the puzzle is and will likely connect the right pieces based on the shape, the computer will likely make way more attemps than a human would.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

There is a big problem there, a computer doesn't see the puzzle as an whole like a human does, the computer picks piece 1 and then attemps to connect to piece 2 through X and keeps going like that until it finds the last solution, Yugi as a human can understand what the puzzle is and will likely connect the right pieces based on the shape, the computer will likely make way more attemps than a human would.

While true, this computer is so powerful it needed an entire space station for itself to be able to fully scan the puzzle in three dimensions and complete it the fastest possible time. It even incorporated laser technology to look for all possible angles. It is an insane feat that Yugi could even complete the puzzle at all, when this sci fi computer needed so much bs to do it.

 

[Passersby]

There is a big problem there, a computer doesn't see the puzzle as an whole like a human does, the computer picks piece 1 and then attemps to connect to piece 2 through X and keeps going like that until it finds the last solution

artificial intelligence makes your point kinda moot espeically since this is likely a sci fi bullshit super tech computer, altough i have no idea who the character and what this movie is, so maybe you're right in this case?

i was just asking anyways

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

While true, this computer is so powerful it needed an entire space station for itself to be able to fully scan the puzzle in three dimensions and complete it the fastest possible time. It even incorporated laser technology to look for all possible angles. It is an insane feat that Yugi could even complete the puzzle at all, when this sci fi computer needed so much bs to do it.

Realistically a computer would finish much faster because the computer is much faster than a human, even attempting each piece it would be much faster than Yugi can place each piece together even if he already knew the location of all pieces, the time Yugi takes to connect 2 pieces a computer would have already made thousands of attempts, so realistically Yugi being faster than the computer is a speed feat rather than a intelligence feat.

artificial intelligence makes your point kinda moot espeically since this is likely a sci fi bullshit super tech computer, altough i have no idea who the character and what this movie is, so maybe you're right in this case?

i was just asking anyways

By the way he talks about making 100 000 simulations per 0.1 seconds it's most likely as i said the so called "brute force"

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Realistically a computer would finish much faster because the computer is much faster than a human, even attempting each piece it would be much faster than Yugi can place each piece together even if he already knew the location of all pieces, the time Yugi takes to connect 2 pieces a computer would have already made thousands of attempts, so realistically Yugi being faster than the computer is a speed feat rather than a intelligence feat.

I ain't talking about speed. I am saying Yugi having completed it at all is impressive.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I ain't talking about speed. I am saying Yugi having completed it at all is impressive.

My opinion is that completing a puzzle might be good maybe even genius good but more than that it's just assuming Yugi actually knows more or is faster than a supercomputer, which clearly is not the case since he still took over 6 years to actually complete the puzzle and the super computer was making like 1M simulations per second. The thing about this is Yugi could have just been lucky to randomly pick the right pieces which would have decrease the time by a lot.
I think if he would get a genius would be for his strategies mid duels not for completing the puzzle.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

My opinion is that completing a puzzle might be good maybe even genius good but more than that it's just assuming Yugi actually knows more or is faster than a supercomputer, which clearly is not the case since he still took over 6 years to actually complete the puzzle and the super computer was making like 1M simulations per second. The thing about this is Yugi could have just been lucky to randomly pick the right pieces which would have decrease the time by a lot.
I think if he would get a genius would be for his strategies mid duels not for completing the puzzle.

The feat that is brought up in OP is Yugi completing it before he passed out from suffocating in a burning building. That's what is being argued would be EG.

The caveat is that, he had already completed it before so had the experience, that's why I personally would give it "at least Genius"

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The feat that is brought up in OP is Yugi completing it before he passed out from suffocating in a burning building. That's what is being argued would be EG.

The caveat is that, he had already completed it before so had the experience, that's why I personally would give it "at least Genius"

I just mean that completing a puzzle doesn't has actual applications to anything other than puzzles, like a "Genius at solving puzzles" so qwhat? Which is the main reason i disagree here because if it was a comparison between Shikamaru from Naruto and Yugi in intelligence, they would be considered "equals" despite one being a genius strategist and the other is a genius at completing puzzles, despite completing the puzzle is not like Yugi has some really good showings of strategy on genius level that would be applicable in other areas.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

is not like Yugi has some really good showings of strategy on genius level that would be applicable in other areas.

He does

He beat Atem, the most skilled duelist in the series, capable of mastering virtually any game, to the point that not even Kaiba's computer, noted as being capable of recreating a person's dueling prowess to almost a perfect degree, even down to their personalities, is able to fully recreate Atem. Even during GX, when these duels are shown as legit being done in battlefields and wars, Yugi/Atem was still considered the peak and most powerful duelist. Even in the future of 5Ds, he still was considered King of Games, prompting peeps to time travel in order to beat him. And in another thread, it was brought up Noah (Kaiba's adoptive brother) became essentially a sentient computer that absorbed virtually all knowledge of humanity, and still couldn't beat Atem/Yugi.

He would be at the absolute least a genius through and through, and with the feat of not even Kaiba's computer being able to recreate him and Noah's stuff, I would straight venture to say he fits EG.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

He does

He beat Atem, the most skilled duelist in the series, capable of mastering virtually any game, to the point that not even Kaiba's computer, noted as being capable of recreating a person's dueling prowess to almost a perfect degree, even down to their personalities, is able to fully recreate Atem. Even during GX, when these duels are shown as legit being done in battlefields and wars, Yugi/Atem was still considered the peak and most powerful duelist. Even in the future of 5Ds, he still was considered King of Games, prompting peeps to time travel in order to beat him. And in another thread, it was brought up Noah (Kaiba's adoptive brother) became essentially a sentient computer that absorbed virtually all knowledge of humanity, and still couldn't beat Atem/Yugi.

He would be at the absolute least a genius through and through, and with the feat of not even Kaiba's computer being able to recreate him and Noah's stuff, I would straight venture to say he fits EG.

And we all know how "luck manipulation" works always for him, no computer can actually predict luck

 

[Syncornize]

He does

He beat Atem, the most skilled duelist in the series, capable of mastering virtually any game, to the point that not even Kaiba's computer, noted as being capable of recreating a person's dueling prowess to almost a perfect degree, even down to their personalities, is able to fully recreate Atem. Even during GX, when these duels are shown as legit being done in battlefields and wars, Yugi/Atem was still considered the peak and most powerful duelist. Even in the future of 5Ds, he still was considered King of Games, prompting peeps to time travel in order to beat him. And in another thread, it was brought up Noah (Kaiba's adoptive brother) became essentially a sentient computer that absorbed virtually all knowledge of humanity, and still couldn't beat Atem/Yugi.

He would be at the absolute least a genius through and through, and with the feat of not even Kaiba's computer being able to recreate him and Noah's stuff, I would straight venture to say he fits EG.

I think I understand what you mean, and it's actually something I haven't really considered. Some of the undertaking that I reported is necessarily related back to memory on some of the pieces.

The feats on Kaiba and Noah since you agree I will add them in the Thread to attempt EG. If helpful for EG, I would add that even kaiba, who is considered EG could not find a way to defeat the 3 Egyptian gods, calling them invincible.

Meanwhile, thax for the insights.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The feats on Kaiba and Noah since you agree I will add them in the Thread to attempt EG. If helpful for EG, I would add that even kaiba, who is considered EG could not find a way to defeat the 3 Egyptian gods, calling them invincible.

Again, that's another thing i have a problem with you don't get to have EG for scaling to someone else just because you happen to surpass an EG on a single area. Kaiba is not EG because he is really good on the game he is EG also because he is a tech genius which obviously Yugi is not, Yugi is a genius on the games sure but Extraordinary genius is mostly about scientific knowledge as the intelligence page refers to, it's about knowledge that spreds into multiple areas, being good with games is 1 area not multiple areas.

 

[Syncornize]

Again, that's another thing i have a problem with you don't get to have EG for scaling to someone else just because you happen to surpass an EG on a single area. Kaiba is not EG because he is really good on the game he is EG also because he is a tech genius which obviously Yugi is not, Yugi is a genius on the games sure but Extraordinary genius is mostly about scientific knowledge as the intelligence page refers to, it's about knowledge that spreds into multiple areas, being good with games is 1 area not multiple areas.

your consideration excludes that

• kaiba repeatedly being considered a dueling genius
• uses the technology you mention to train and perfect himself
• before yugi was undisputed champion of duel monsters
• multiple times chess champion.

Even his supercomputers havent found a strategy to beat the 3 gods and yugi who is the new king of games without Atem. Kaiba is a genius on more than one field, not just technology. the skills for which Kaiba is known are technology and duel monsters. To scale EG on kaiba Yugi doesn't necessarily have to create a more complicated "tool" than the KB or something similar.
At the level of strategies and insights Yugi has very good feats as Lephyr has already said.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

your consideration excludes that

• kaiba repeatedly being considered a dueling genius
• uses the technology you mention to train and perfect himself
• before yugi was undisputed champion of duel monsters
• multiple times chess champion.

Even his supercomputers havent found a strategy to beat the 3 gods and yugi who is the new king of games without Atem. Kaiba is a genius on more than one field, not just technology. His intellectual and intuitive abilities, however, are directly proportional to the duel monsters.
the skills for which Kaiba is known are technology and duel monsters.
To qualify as an EG Yugi doesnt necessarily have to create a more complicated instrument than one from the KC

I didn't exclude anything my point was Kaiba is not just a genius duelist, and being one alone doesn't grant Extraordinary genius the fact that he is all those things and more thats why, on the other hand Yugi is only genius at dueling.
The power of the 3 gods being "invincible" means nothing, it's obvious you can always overpower somewhere you just need a big enough gap, it's not a matter of intelligence it's just pure power. And Kaiba's scientific knowledge doesn't relate to his dueling, it's funny that Kaiba thinks a new duel disk will somehow make him a better strategist to win against Yugi
I never said Yugi needs to create something better than Kaiba, I said he needs to surpass Kaiba in multiple of Kaiba's expertises at the very least, if he won a 20 question quiz about scientific knowledge it would be good enough.
The point is Yugi is not smarter than Kaiba he is just a better duelist which is just one of the areas of expertise of Kaiba.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I never said Yugi needs to create something better than Kaiba, I said he needs to surpass Kaiba in multiple of Kaiba's expertises at the very least,

See, that's where you are simply wrong.

As opposed to attempting to reliably quantify intelligence, pages should reflect that intelligence has many facets and, when describing the intelligence of characters, specifically detail their areas of strength while acknowledging any intellectual shortcomings they may have. Characters can be listed as having average knowledge overall while being geniuses in certain topics - Goku, for example, despite having little knowledge or skill in most other areas, is a martial artist of prodigal skill. This being said, the higher you go on this recommended scale, the less possible this becomes, as categories become broader and broader, with Supergenius itself implying overall brilliance surpassing that of human plausibility.

Yugi is an EG strategist and gamer, as he can outperform the most skilled strategist and gamer of the time, while he wielded the most powerful deck of the time (the 3 gods). He may be average at everything else and can't invent crazy tech, but that simply doesn't matter. We are rating his extremely above average intellect for his main field of expertise, those being games. Kaiba has a full rounded EG rating because he's also good at tech, managing a company, dueling and in some respects even proper fighting, as he has literally fought armed guards by throwing cards.

 

[Syncornize]

hi, I'm here again. I have some feats mentioned in previous posts by Mod to give EG to Yugi and Atem

- Noah is a computer with all the knowledge humanly existing. Atem is able to do OTK ( one turn kill for the less experienced in the game ) to Noah with 10k LP. Noah is even above kaiba.

- Kaiba praises Atem for succeeding through his dueling skills to summon the 3 deities in just 1 turn. Calling it an event to be put in the dueling history books, to the themes virtually impossible to accomplish.

- Kaiba states that the only weakness of the 3 gods was circumvented by Atem, currently according to him they don't possess weaknesses, With all 3 deities on the ground it is not possible to win. Yugi was able to find a strategy and defeat the gods in one turn.


I would add a small note to put in the profiles of both of them. Much of Seto's upscaling in dueling comes from the preparation of his sophisticated and futuristic machinery that refines his skills and strategies in duel monster, allowing him to do things like :

• "create" new cards to add to his deck.
• Have specific dueling sessions against all the information in the duelist's possession. From his deck to his strategies
• Analyzing and creating his deck based on precise calculations and analysis
• ETC...

Seto already himself is an established champion of duel monsters and in games that require similar reasoning such as chess. Despite his preparation Yugi and Atem manage to beat and outclass him.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

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