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Yu-Gi-Oh ! Massive AP CRT
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
- Start date
- 3,651
- 264
4B is the absolute lowball of lowballs for everything here, even when considering the counterarguments here.
Also, isn't Super Polymerization multiversal, considering it was gonna be used to forcefully fuse dimensions?
Also, isn't Super Polymerization multiversal, considering it was gonna be used to forcefully fuse dimensions?
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One of my more recent comments starting doubting even that.
Nah, said dimensions ranged from a desert dimension to one orbiting Jupiter.
Nah, said dimensions ranged from a desert dimension to one orbiting Jupiter.
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- Thread starter
- #84
The reason Satorious even stated this was because this fight was the embodiment of the fight between the light and darkness. If Jaden lost, it was essentially saying the light triumphed over the dark and without any resistance would envelop everything. That is why it would happen as soon as the fight is over. as Jaden was explicitly stated several times to be the reason it hasn't happened yet and as the wielder of the darkness was the thing keeping The Light from accomplishing it's mission.
I'll use everything I have to debate against you at this point, because it's clear i can't cut corners any longer. I'll start debating seriously tomorrow, but everything you said can be dismissed.
I'll use everything I have to debate against you at this point, because it's clear i can't cut corners any longer. I'll start debating seriously tomorrow, but everything you said can be dismissed.
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Okay, but if that's the case then why do we assume he was being literal when his explanation is figurative?
Full Power 2nd Existential Seed
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- Thread starter
- #86
Because the lore that was revealed in the Dimension Arc backs everything Satorious said up when a younger Yubel was told about the battle between the Light and Dark, and her potential role to play in the spectacle [Beleive me I'll provide scans tommorrow about this ]. It isn't literal, it's the goal of the light since the very beginning of creation. Also the Light has the most knowledge about this type of event besides the Gentle Darkness since he literally was there when the universe was created.
What I don't understand is why you are so easy to trust the statement of a naive duelist whose response to the Light was only that of a child who couldn't comprehend the higher forces at play as fact for a rebuttal, yet ignore Scientists statements about the Spirit World whose been researching said Spirit World since the beginning of GX to the beginning of the Dimension World arc and have far more credibility to back up his statement.
Also your World of Darkness scans missed the entire point. It says "there was nothing existing, then the front and back of one card was determined and the entire world began"... Since nothing existed world can not be referring to Earth as it didn't even exist yet . Context implies the front of the card was the Universe.and the back was the World of Darkness... Which again I'll go into detail later and prove for most of GX world meant Universe.
About the Dimensions [Which again I'll go into detail later but here is some stuff]: Neos Space isn't just a planet. The planet we see is actually Dolphina, which is a small part of the Neos Space. Context hinted it had it's own separate space from the Earth... Not once, but twice , which means it doesn't have the same space... Which means the stars we see in Neos Space are within it's own singular space in it's own dimension, not within Earth. There is other stuff but it can wait but it does indeed contradict the notion that it's just another planet near Jupiter.
Also on the offical Yugioh website they call the alternate dimensions in GX "alternate universes" ... So there is that
What I don't understand is why you are so easy to trust the statement of a naive duelist whose response to the Light was only that of a child who couldn't comprehend the higher forces at play as fact for a rebuttal, yet ignore Scientists statements about the Spirit World whose been researching said Spirit World since the beginning of GX to the beginning of the Dimension World arc and have far more credibility to back up his statement.
Also your World of Darkness scans missed the entire point. It says "there was nothing existing, then the front and back of one card was determined and the entire world began"... Since nothing existed world can not be referring to Earth as it didn't even exist yet . Context implies the front of the card was the Universe.and the back was the World of Darkness... Which again I'll go into detail later and prove for most of GX world meant Universe.
About the Dimensions [Which again I'll go into detail later but here is some stuff]: Neos Space isn't just a planet. The planet we see is actually Dolphina, which is a small part of the Neos Space. Context hinted it had it's own separate space from the Earth... Not once, but twice , which means it doesn't have the same space... Which means the stars we see in Neos Space are within it's own singular space in it's own dimension, not within Earth. There is other stuff but it can wait but it does indeed contradict the notion that it's just another planet near Jupiter.
Also on the offical Yugioh website they call the alternate dimensions in GX "alternate universes" ... So there is that
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So you admit its not literal? Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge his goal is to lifewipe the universe at the very least. It's just the entire 4-B or 3-A stuff seems to be based on assuming everything is literal, including the idea that the universe is half just light and half just darkness. The fact that there even exists a star contradicts that. It sounds like plain ol' lifewiping, not that he'll annhilate the universe in a single blow or that he'll bring the brightness to max.
Well the scientist was outright contradicted by the showings. The duelist wasn't, and the guy who initally said it was notably arrogrant and the origin story of the universal creation (across Zexal and GX) never mention the universe being created multiple times. Not to mention Number 100 almost died the first time, and became far weaker afterwards.
Using the images as context, it literally just means he uses world in both definitions. As in, like most fiction / people, we use the same words differently. This really isn't different.
Different space =/= different timeline though. Just ask Marvel's Asgard, most fictional Heavens, or the like.
We're getting really loose with the canon there, but if you want, you can link that. But again, the actual showings > word of God (More like website manager with no relation to the writers, but eh)
Well the scientist was outright contradicted by the showings. The duelist wasn't, and the guy who initally said it was notably arrogrant and the origin story of the universal creation (across Zexal and GX) never mention the universe being created multiple times. Not to mention Number 100 almost died the first time, and became far weaker afterwards.
Using the images as context, it literally just means he uses world in both definitions. As in, like most fiction / people, we use the same words differently. This really isn't different.
Different space =/= different timeline though. Just ask Marvel's Asgard, most fictional Heavens, or the like.
We're getting really loose with the canon there, but if you want, you can link that. But again, the actual showings > word of God (More like website manager with no relation to the writers, but eh)
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- Thread starter
- #89
> So you admit its not literal? Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge his goal is to lifewipe the universe at the very least. It's just the entire 4-B or 3-A stuff seems to be based on assuming everything is literal, including the idea that the universe is half just light and half just darkness. The fact that there even exists a star contradicts that. It sounds like plain ol' lifewiping, not that he'll annhilate the universe in a single blow or that he'll bring the brightness to max.
This is where we diverge at. It is about as literal as they come sans the splitting, which we will show later was metaphorical for the good and evil aspect.
> Your entire point including 'stars' we see are actually proof of how it engulfed the Universe. The two used the universe as a warground, but there are evidences the Gentle Darkness is the Universe while the Light is outside it, so your stars argument doesn't prove anything now since we have evidence only the Gentle Darkness has two scans hinting he is one with the universe, not both.
> Yugioh.com was literally made by Konami. That's why I was going to use it.
Also the whole point of the Universes not being "Universal" in size had to do with Neos Space. Neos Space was described by Judai as "another Universe" and when recollecting being in it he recollects the planet and stars alongside it, and even Aqua Dolphin refers to Neos Space as another Universe as well (https://ibb.co/gr5qtQK).
Yes we know it said separate but until S2 we had no idea they were separated by time/space until much later on when describing the separation between the universes as space-time oriented . Then combine it with quantum theory indications and there we go.
This is where we diverge at. It is about as literal as they come sans the splitting, which we will show later was metaphorical for the good and evil aspect.
- One is this scan. Based on this we know based on Neos that the Universe was threatened (https://i.ibb.co/NnHKrDH/Screenshot-20190711-184648-Gotardo-Anime.jpg) , not half of it or a piece. Whatever was taking place was affecting the full thing.
- Here as well (https://i.ibb.co/TTsNwky/Screenshot-20190711-182943-Gotardo-Anime.jpg) meaning it is heavily hinted that The Light's goal definitely isn't lifewiping, it's destruction of all reality..
- We outright see that the Light Barrier has influence on the entire Universe. THis is the Light's Power, and there isn't anyone in the show who outright says this is false , and considering his plan was consistently stated to destroy the universe as noted prior and not just lifewipe... It goes hand in hand with Satorious' statements prior.
- Outright says that the Gentle Darkness actually engulfed the Universe: (https://i.ibb.co/V3XXBQ8/Screenshot-20190706-222351-Kiss-Anime.jpg), which was also stated here (https://ibb.co/Yh08Vv9). So this also means essentially the Darkness was one with the Universe yet was battliing with the Light outside of parts Unknow, meaning the Light despite contrary belief actually wasn't within the Universe but was outside of it. To destroy the Gentle Dark is to destroy essentially the Universe as it's clear it was affecting it to some capacity.
- This is consistent with several statements of there being worlds throughout their Universe, ontop of them being unaware of the Twelve Dimensions when referring to "Our Universe" and Judai stating with Neos Space Universe (https://i.ibb.co/YXpKVhq/Judai-referring-to-the-Neos-Space-as-a-Universe.png) implying canonically there is more than one [The Universe at this time included Earth + Neos Space, not the other Dimensions] as it wasn't even included at the time and we now know that worlds in GX can mean Universes as due the spirit's explanation about the Light & Darkness.
- We outright have a statement that the entire Universe was their battlefield, not just a part (https://ibb.co/zFy8ZKX) , which Judai actually outright disproved the claim that Satorious was lying. Judai isn't arrogant and actually knows the state of the battle and was given an inside look at how it all began.
- So none of this was metaphorical. It was all legitimate right down to the start
> Your entire point including 'stars' we see are actually proof of how it engulfed the Universe. The two used the universe as a warground, but there are evidences the Gentle Darkness is the Universe while the Light is outside it, so your stars argument doesn't prove anything now since we have evidence only the Gentle Darkness has two scans hinting he is one with the universe, not both.
> Yugioh.com was literally made by Konami. That's why I was going to use it.
Also the whole point of the Universes not being "Universal" in size had to do with Neos Space. Neos Space was described by Judai as "another Universe" and when recollecting being in it he recollects the planet and stars alongside it, and even Aqua Dolphin refers to Neos Space as another Universe as well (https://ibb.co/gr5qtQK).
Yes we know it said separate but until S2 we had no idea they were separated by time/space until much later on when describing the separation between the universes as space-time oriented . Then combine it with quantum theory indications and there we go.
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That's not proof of literal 3-A destruction. Goku saved the universe when he defeated Frieza the first time, Kyubey saves the universe by combatting entropy, etc.
The statement is referencing this^ no? If so, the same thing falls here.
Yes, but the actual consequences / context (Such as his attempt to destroy Earth / Using a satelite) aren't AP based, much less 3-A destruction. It'll be like scaling people with universal hax / range to AP.
Despite it being stated that half the universe belongs to the Darkness and the other belongs to the light? You want to argue that the Darkness controls the whole universe and the Light is outside of it? You're doing is at best, mentioning how inconsistent the verse can be and at worst proving flowery language is heavily relevant.
Like I mention, best you get is smaller pocket dimensions with a loose definition of 'universe'. Timelines smaller than universe size is tiered as unqualifable, ie like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
The statement is referencing this^ no? If so, the same thing falls here.
Yes, but the actual consequences / context (Such as his attempt to destroy Earth / Using a satelite) aren't AP based, much less 3-A destruction. It'll be like scaling people with universal hax / range to AP.
Despite it being stated that half the universe belongs to the Darkness and the other belongs to the light? You want to argue that the Darkness controls the whole universe and the Light is outside of it? You're doing is at best, mentioning how inconsistent the verse can be and at worst proving flowery language is heavily relevant.
- Let's assume this is to be taken seriously, however.
- Since the Light is outside the universe, all my previous statements change from hax to ranged hax.
- The question becomes, why couldn't he just AP bombard from a distance? At least before you could argue that the Gentle Darkness protected its half.
- Furthermore, assuming the "destroyed the universe several times before" statement is legit, then the Gentle Darkness would have been eradicated several times before. Lifewiping explains how the Darkness would still exist and how the universe hasn't physically been destroyed already.
Like I mention, best you get is smaller pocket dimensions with a loose definition of 'universe'. Timelines smaller than universe size is tiered as unqualifable, ie like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
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I need to unfollow more old threads like this.
