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Yu-Gi-Oh ! Massive AP CRT

The 2nd Existential Seed


My point was that he would not hit god tiers due to the fact that neos is way below yubel who got pressured and nerved by a exodia powered adrian putting him way below any of the god tiers.


The anime versions of 5DS,GX and Dm are from the same continuity and as such should scale to one another when shown and stated to.


I Know that the neo specians were needed to fight Satorious which is why i said he can't be a god tier due to neos scaling below exodia powered adrian and yubel both of which both are way stronger than Satorious
 
Then it seems we have similar points. I don't think I ever said [and If I did I apologize because like mentioned that wasn't my intention] that Neos scales to the God-Tiers [He's blatantly fodderized after S2 and the only one that does scale is Divine Neos and that is stupidly above his base form... ] , it's to prove that they hit this level before even getting to the god tiers. Also the exodia from GX doesn't upscale to the Exodia from Duel Monsters but we can scale the GX Exodia to the True Exodia from the World of Memories Anime Arc.

I agree. They have shown ways of scaling to each other before, such as Malefic Stardust [essentially a bloodlusted Stardust] vs Judai and Yugi from BBT , the two part of the True Graduation Duel, and the mentioning of his strength from The Dimensions Arc. So it is quite easily to scale across continuities but we need this to be accepted first before that happens.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed

The exodia in dm is vastly weaker than the one shown in gx as it's power was vastly limited as his power was restricted by the lifeforce of shimon muran as that is how summoning works in yugioh.

The Exodia in gx did not have the restrictions that come with being summoned and had the ability to access a father form to due the sacrifice that adrian gave to him.

Stardust Dragon should be above judai and his other monsters like neos as he was vastly pressured even with the assistance of such and this also before yusei's various powerups he achieves in part 2 of the 5ds anime


Ka is the actually name of the dueling energy you mentioned earlier and it is explained thoroughly in the memory world arc on how it works.


The Judai in BTT should be the most powerful judai shown due to his time placement in the movie being set after gx's ending and yusei's stardust still pressures him that much showing stardust dragon to be at least comparable end of series judai and this is base stardust doing this.
 
I agree with everything except for two things:

  • GX's BBT was prior to him leaving the campus so it was after GX but before the True Graduation Duel because it was stated it was the first time he officially met Yugi... Which is important for scaling. Speaking of which :
  • I disagree with Exodia in GX being far superior to his Duel Monsters counterpart due to Jaden and Yubel together should be far superior to Exodia as Exodia's might was still overpowered by Base Yubel in the end [but I do believe GX's Exodia and Yubel are comparable] ... Yet Judai called [The God Cards not even the True Egyptian Gods which are far superior] as being the strongest spiritual deck and Yugi as the strongest duelist despite knowing of Yubel [and even having her in his deck] and even stronger cards.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed


The reasoning as to why exodia is stronger in gx is because he can use his full power without the restriction of being tied to the life force of a old man which is why zorc beat exodia in the memory world arc to begin with.

There is also the fact that exodia has a additional form in gx due to adrian sacrificing his girlfriend and i think judai being stronger than exodia is just a testament to his power and him being set at the limits of the god cards set's a clear scale on where judai stands in terms of tier.

Do you have any proof and or evidence to suggest the exodia in gx being a different character than the one shown in dm.


Judai at the end of gx clearly states that he wants to set out on a adventure and him being in Venice would line up with that statement and fact he has yubel clearly puts it at least after the dimension world arc.
 
Bump. @Missy I sort of disagree as it was using the same exact principles as it did within the World of Memories, but arguably had an even weaker soul to use in GX than Duel Monsters as Solomon was exceptionally powerful to the point he could temporarily hold back Zorc, someone immensely superior to Yubel just through scaling far, far above Darkness.

Because of what happened in the Orichalcos' Arc.

It is after the dimension world arc but prii=or to the True Graduation Duel Also what we have so far:

  • The Original Duel Monsters describing the Spirit World in the anime as being a parallel timeline to the human world, which in the context of the Orichalcos' Arc [Which is canon] is referring to the Universe, as the only time Earth was mention is in regards to it being the "planet", not the "Human World"... Which if accepted would accept Super Polymerization's Feat as 2-C due to the above solely and not the Twelve Dimensions and scale to the GX, 5Ds, and DMs gang. Also the dub also refers to the Spirit World as a parallel universe so it is consistent across the versions of Yu-Gi-Oh!.
  • Satorious [when empowered by The Light only] was threatening both Spirit World and Human World and he was likely 2-C but was defeated by S2 Jaden... Whose immensely weaker than S4 to S5 Jaden. The feat wasn't via Entropy as that was just Pegasus guessing and was not consistent with the portrayal of the entity as of Dimensions Arc so I tossed that definition aside, especially when he has statements of literally destroying the universe after Judai was defeated and affecting the Universe even prior to this.
  • 5Ds scales > S5 Judai via BBT and 5Ds confirmed it was canon to the verse by Z-One confirming he did send Paradox back in time to kill Pegasus.when monologing about his vision after stomping Aporia.
  • Yugi scales > Judai via many statements throughout GX and the True Graduation Duel, also BBT portrays him far above Yusei and Judai.
The Orichalcos Arc I decided to go through to see if I can clear up some misconceptions... And boi was it interesting and provided a lot of answers to some things:

  • Yes the Arc is canon. Yami references it in the Beginning of S5 saying he cannot forget how close it was to destroying the Duel Monsters Spirit World (The only time in Duel Monsters as of that timeframe that was threatening the Spirit World was the Dartz's incident so it can only be referring to that)
  • The God Cards got a massive power-up BTW against the Leviathan but it does scale to them as both the amp he and Yami Yugi got they kept.
Orichalcos Scaling Chai:

  • The God Cards are 2-C themselves [scaling far above Judai and comparable to Yusei's Shooting Star or Quasar Dragon].... Yet were used by Dartz on the First Level of the Orichalcos to create the Restricted Form of Divine Serpent Geh
  • Restricted Divine Serpent Geh is at least 3x stronger than the God Cards
  • The Base Legendary Knight's Restrictive Dragon Forms oneshots Restricted Divine Serpent Geh
  • Dartz gains enough power to unlock the Second and Third Levels of the Orichalcos, fully reviving the Divine Serpent Geh
  • Yami Yugi after remembering a facet of his memories is able to repel the Third Level of the Orichalcos [His first Amp which again is permanent] , which the First Level is Superior to the God Cards. Dartz even said it was impossible for him to be capable of doing it..
  • Yes this is in the Sub Dartz calls his Divine Serpent Geh having "infinite power" , supported by the fact he states "nothing can stop them" despite knowing of the power of the God Cards and him using them in the first parts of the Orichalcos Arc, meaning it's likely infinitely superior to the God Cards. If this isn't enough even Yami Yugi in the sub called his Timeaus' power raising to infinity upon playing Knight of Destiny Timeaus [when Timeaus in the sub didn't have the Infinite ATK game mechanic], when the sub the God Cards were never referred to having such powers.
  • To prove this is consistent, a villain intended to replace the Dartz arc in Reshef of Destruction, Reshef was explicitly stated as infinitely stronger than before even when before it had the power of all the God Cards.... So yeah it is consistent even throughout other Media's alternate portrayals of the event.
  • The Great Leviathan is so strong at first Yami didn't even think it could be defeat [Despite having the ability to fuse them, letting us know it is far superior to Knight of Destiny
  • After gaining his new powers truly and unlocking the Full Powers of the Nameless Pharaoh after being motivated by his friends [NOT Atem... But the highest his strength can go without fully unlocking his memories or being in the World of Memories], his power creates the God Cards [NOT The World of Memories versions which are far superior]
  • These God Cards are at least infinitely superior to their previous selves and rival even the Knight of Destiny [they were even referred to as the Gods of Duel Monsters, meaning superior to any Duel Monsters played before this... Including Timeaus and Geh] , as they are each capable of damaging the Great Leviathan when Yami thought he couldn't be defeated or afffected, meaning each of them are superior to the Knight of Destiny.
  • All 3 of them together blast overpower the Great Leviathan... But...
  • They reveal that the True Form of the Great Leviathan is superior to all it's previous form [or at least comparable to it's physical body] s, and it directly attacks Yami. Using his new powers, albeit with great struggle, he is able to repel it. This proves the amp he got from this little adventure was permanent as otherwise he would've died.
So: Yami Yugi (Nameless Pharaoh's Full Power) > True Form Great Leviathan >>> Great Leviathan >> Nameless Pharaoh Empowered God Cards >> Knight of Destiny >>> Divine Serpent Geh [infinitely] > God Cards >= Shooting Star/Scar Red Nova/ Shooting Quasar >>> Stardust > Post-S4 Judai.

World of Memories Arc:

  • Yami Yugi was wielding the Full Power of the Nameless Pharaoh at the time, not Atem. His full powers can only summon one Egyptian God at once, and we see him brekaing his limits doing so despite having the full powers of the Nameless Pharaoh, hinting the World of Memories Arc Egyptian Gods surpass The Great Leviathan. This is consistent with how Bakura supposedly bested Dartz in the past despite him wielding The Great Leviathan. This is also evident by the fact he exerts so much energy to even effectively uses the Gods despite having no problem giving the God's Energy when fighting The Great Leviathan.
  • Diabound rivaled that of Slifer and Obelisk and was a threat to both.
  • The Blue Eyes is a rival to the Egyptian Gods and even surpasses them as a whole combined.
  • Zorc stomps all the Gods once he gets serious, fights on par with Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon [Who immensely surpasses his base]
  • Zorc's blast gets deflected by Atem and revives the Egyptian Gods.
  • Horakthy oneshots.Zorc.
Horakthy >> Atem > Zorc > Exodia = Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon >>> Blue-Eyes White Dragon > The Egyptian Gods >>> The Nameless Pharaoh > True Form Great Leviathan >>> Great Leviathan >> Nameless Pharaoh Empowered God Cards >> Knight of Destiny >>> Divine Serpent Geh [infinitely] > God Cards >= Shooting Star/Scar Red Nova/ Shooting Quasar >>> Stardust > Post-S4 Judai.
 
Bump.

Scans for the Orichalcos Bit that aren't blatantly obvious such as Dragon Timeaus scaling above the initial God Cards:

The "Infinity" Increase in Power.

They make it clear that the power increase was talking about the power of darkness vs bondd both being infinite, not just game mechanics:

When talking about Timeaus he says that the Knight embodies the power of that bond and thusly gain infinite power , and is likely infinitely superior to any card played by Yugi, including the Knights who are above the God Cards.... Hence why I said "infinitely above the God Cards":

This isn't the end, when describing the power of the Great Leviathan, he says, despite knowing of the power of his bonds can crrate something infinitely superior to the God Cards " can anything even defeat it ? ":

This is backed up by Dartz , despite knowing of the Divine Knight says nothing can beat it:

Which means the Great Leviathan is superior to Divine Knight. When Yugi's new powers after absorbing the power of his friends, Dartz not only calls the God Cards the Duel Monster Gods. which makes them superior to anything played in Duel Monsters including the Divine Knoght and Geh , but are able to harm the Leviathan and tank its direct attacks ... Proving these newly amped Gods are on the same level as it and superior individually to the Divine Knight:

 
Yep the infinite '''ATK''' game mechanic about Timeaus doesn't exist in the sub... Only the statement about it gaining infinite power through their infinite power of hope.
 
That isn't the quote exactly but a rough translation. Here ere are the quotes: "Dartz, if you believe in the infinity of the power of darkness, then the bonds I share are also infinite "

" The power of our bonds will now open up a new future. Timeaus, gain the power of infinity ! " Meaning Timeaus was being enpowered by those bonds to gain that much power.

None of that is referring to game mechanics as Timeaus wasn't shown game wise to gain infinite ATK. Even if not accepted, I believe it's blatant that Yami Yugi gained a massive power amp anyways above normal to fight against the true form of the Leviathan solo and the God Cards being able to fight the Leviathan when previously they aren't even near the power of the Legendary Dragons / Knights.
 
Keep in mind that in the original version, Timaeus and Devine Serpent Geh both destroyed each other once they both head infinite ATK points.
 
Generally something like this requires the main people, but the majority seems to agree with tier 2 at least, even those who were vehemently against it in the past. So I believe we may need more support from mods.
 
I think the previous judgments were based off discussions not that much different from those involving the Bleach verse, tbh. Apparently there's a reason why even the strongest characters there aren't even tier 3.
 
That's true. However I have more than enough feats to justify my claims here... Both dub and sub to show consistency. So I'm not worried if anyone comes to disagree. I'm just not sure what to do now as it's clear it's going to be a while before Data can come and help out with this revision.
 
Minor nitpick, but you know dub statements can't be accepted in Yu-Gi-Oh's case. Not sure why you keep bringing them.

Anyways, can you summarize the feats (not the scaling for now)?
 
I still find that stupid just because of the shadow realm not being in the sub. That's one occurence. But regardless I use it for consistency and for direct cintext, bot for the feat itself. Anyways... The feats are:

  • The Spirit World was described as a parallel universe in both sub/dub , which if accepted makes most of the feats below become 2-C rather than Low 2-C. This has nothing to do with GX , it's from Duel Monsters.
  • In GX the Universe was going to be destroyed by an Light empowered Satorious as soon as the duel with Jaden ended , described as a Universal threat, and the Light survived the Creation of the Universe many times over. He was also affecting ththe universe with a card empowered by hsi energy. The entropy part is BS as Pegasus has no idea what he's talking about and it's contradicted by the true nature of the Light... It isn't a white hole or entropic force. It was a cosmic entity that predated the creation of the universe.
  • Yubel was stated twice as capable of ending the Universe with Super Polynerization. She also said bith she and Jaden would survive, implying it scales to durability for both of them.
  • The Millennium Items are described as capable of maintaining the balance of the universe with their presence.
 
You make it sound like the Shadow Realm is a small thing... It is quite literally almost a staple in the 4kids dub. Not to mention that wasn't the only thing, 4kids has been known to even edit the footage itself.

  • The Spirit World from GX and Duel Monsters is confirmed different? Also what is the feat?
  • Yeah, except it was an overtime feat not done through sheer AP anyways. The Light had to use other means, a satelite in one instance if I remember correctly, to just take down the Earth. Yu-Gi-Oh seems to contradict itself often, like the quantum stuff.
  • Super Polymerization is 5-A atm and that would be Resistance to Fusionism, as the destruction is only due to the fusion.
  • Balance of the universe isn't 3-A. It's not even an AP feat.
 
  • They aren't different. They are the same Spirit World. The point is they describe it as a parallel universe in it's totality without relying on the twelve dimensions, which is more direct and legitimate than using it.
  • Then immediately says he would take out the Universe and the whole entropy thing was directly contradicted with the fact that the Light isn't entropy: That is something based on Pegasus' view and he's not the most legitimate source for that type of information as he doesn't know the true origins of the Light and Gentle Darkness. Light of Destruction is a cosmic entity that survived the creation of the universe as hinted in Satious' several statements describing his origin, and it coming from the entity in question >>>> A bystander's comments. Also contradicted by Light being half the universe and surviving it's creation and destruction numerous times. The Satelite is PIS if anything with all of that being in the same exact arc, in the same final battle as the satelite aforementioned.
  • Two statements says the universe would be destroyed and she'd survive it. That isn't resistance as she outright said the universe would be destroyed after the fusion and they'd be standing after the universe ends . That is what I'm using. Even throwing out the Spirit World that is tier 3 at lowest. It scales to AP as they can create the cards through their own powers of darkness.
  • I can throw that out... It was just a extra thing anyways.
So what's going for them:

  • The Light of Destruction can survive the destruction and creation of the universe several times, gave Satorious the power to affect the Universe with his powers [literally right then not over time] , and was going to destroy the Universe as soon as the fight was over completely negating the fact it was over time via entropy.
  • Outright said Jaden & Yubel can survive the destruction of the universe and scales to a card which the fodder created and both can create via the Gentle Darkness / Spirit Powers that is outright stated to have the power of the universe and the ability
  • Consistent scaling throughout all 3 versions of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX treating Yugi as the pinnacle of strength period during that time , Yusei's Stardust owning Judai despite tanking blows from those comparable to himself, and Yusei's Stardust owned by Paradox who scales to 5Ds Big Bads. Either way everything comes together scaling wise
 
Who says the Spirit World is a parallel universe? Feels like I could use the exact same thing you said about Pegasus to this quote. Speaking of which, the very origin of the Spirit World directly contradicts this: as the Spirit World reflects the Earth but is part of the universe. (Linked this above with the Nightshroud scans, but also cited in the wiki.) Sounds more like parallel world, which I already mentioned is probably what you're thinking of. Alas, not 2-C or anything of the like.

Yeah... the universe ends because of the fusion. Its not gonna explode or anything like that (at least, it never said that). We already know how fusion works, so its clearly resistance.

Going to cite the wiki since I don't have much time but...

^When under that context, this kinda changes your biggest points.
 
The person who said this was a denizen of the Spirit World, who backs up what the scientist was saying by essentially saying he was correct .

The one who thinks it's a lie was a irrelevant character who would have no proof he was lying... No connection to the Light or anything. So that in and of itself isn't worthy of noting from the wiki.

The actual episodes never hint at lifewiping was his goal. And using the wiki instead of raw scans from the english sub is inaccurate as the sub itself clarifies he's planning on destroying the universe. Especially when again he was going to destroy the universe as soon as Jaden lost the duel, not over time. So yeah the wikia is just cutting corners and making summaries and not documenting exactly how the sub portrays the events. So please don't use the wiki because I guarantee you 9/10 times it's going to contradict the source material.

We know how fusion works, but yet we ignore the fact her goal wasn't just fusion the twelve dimensions, but literally ending the universe. The twelve dimensions fuse than explode ending the universe.. It's explicitly stated in the sub... So I don't understand how you think it's just fusion that ends it... The fusion happens first, then the dimensions explodes taking the universe with it. It's both resistance and a Durability feat. Ignoring the fact that the card itself is the power of the Universe itself.
 
The denizen? You mean my scan which explicitly shows the Spirit World being parallel to Earth rather than the universe or another one?

The fact that people question it brings the statement in doubt, espically given the arrogrance of the Light itself.

Not to sound nitpicky, but just stating it instead of citing the wiki or bringing scans (as you stated) is worst than the wiki.

Yeah its ending the universe because it would be fused. This is no different than how fusion sends beings into the graveyard. I dont think the dimension is stated to actually explode after the fusion, matter of fact if its already fused then there would be nothing to explode in the first place...
 
Well it depends on the feat:

You need to (somehow) explain away the fact that the Spirit World is directly shown to be the size of the Earth, and since parallel world can mean 5-B in this case, it would have to be a direct size comparsion to the entire universe. In addition, prove it (again somehow) exists outside the universe, further contradicting the scans I showed.

For the fusion: a scan that says the world somehow explodes even after it no longer exists (as its fused).

For the record, while these pieces of evidence would help, all it would do is show contradictory evidence. At that point you would force all the feats to be ranked "Unknown" rather than their current ratings (5-A in the case of Super Poly), which I'm not sure you'd want. Sadly, the scans as you've seen that I brought are explicitly in the tier 5 range, so you can't do much about that.
 
Your statement hints that this is essentially all for nothing... But Alright... I shall do this section by section:

  • Unlike mentioned, the Universe itself, the human world is referred to as " a world"... which is notable at least : https://ibb.co/Yh08Vv9 , https://i.ibb.co/J3vs8Cw/In-other-w...-the-duel-between-good-and-evil-continues.png . In other words world is stated on two occassions in GX to be referring to a full fledged "Universe". Make of that how you will but this proves world can mean universe in yugioh depending on context.
  • Also here is the scan about Satorious' Light Barrier "exerting influence on the entire universe" : https://i.ibb.co/sRFDdZ5/Screenshot-20190711-183850-Gotardo-Anime.jpg
  • Here is the statement about the universe being split into two halves: one of light and hte other of darkness [Gentle Darkness & Light of Destruction]: https://i.ibb.co/8cWZ7hB/Screenshot-20190706-222347-Kiss-Anime.jpg
  • He also explicitly says the moment Jaden loses is the exact moment the planet and universe is engulfed in light, which heavily implies Pegasus is wrong and the effects of the destruction of the planet & universe would be immediately after the battle: https://i.ibb.co/8cWZ7hB/Screenshot-20190706-222347-Kiss-Anime.jpg, https://i.ibb.co/PYTfD6y/Screenshot-20190711-184425-Gotardo-Anime.jpg, https://i.ibb.co/z2V7fCx/Screenshot-20190711-184428-Gotardo-Anime.jpg .
 
  • Yeah, it can be used interchangably. But so has world and planet.
  • Influence =/= feat. Unless you got something warping or AP going on of course.
  • Okay.
  • But why after the battle? I feel like context is missing if the engulfing is tied into this battle. Also light engulfing the universe is a 4-A feat if I remember correctly.
 
No that would be half of the 4-B result.

Actually, do we ever see the other half of the universe? I'm starting to think this isn't literal as I don't actually remember the universe literally being completely covered in light, and the half of the universe that is dark still has light in it (via stars anyways).
 
A bit off-topic, but:

Why are the Constellars possibly 3-C? Nothing actually puts them there. Also I've been thinking about it but, I mentioned previously that the entire "power of the constellations thing" isn't literal or calcable (Constellations aren't actually bound together). What was the "winning" evidence again?

Aliens (Yu-Gi-Oh!) have Power Null via card effects, so that's gots to go.
 
SomebodyData said:
A bit off-topic, but:

Why are the Constellars possibly 3-C? Nothing actually puts them there. Also I've been thinking about it but, I mentioned previously that the entire "power of the constellations thing" isn't literal or calcable (Constellations aren't actually bound together). What was the "winning" evidence again?

Aliens (Yu-Gi-Oh!) have Power Null via card effects, so that's gots to go.
Click to expand...
Iirc, weekly spoke with Assalt and he said GBE was good, and the GBE of the galaxy is what binds together constellations in real life.
 
GBE = Keeps stars in place, Constellations = Only appear to exist because of how far we are from them if I understand correctly. Not to mention we don't take the "power of X thing" seriously without proof, like hamo having the power of the sun or the like.

For Aliens? Not that I'm aware of.
 
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