Yhwach's casuality manipulation

[Stick695]

i saw people saying that yhwach doesn't posses casuality manipulation.

casuality manipulation: allowing them to literally decide what happens and what doesn't, when and how. There is no need for a "why"

The Almighty: being capable of seeing over all possible futures (by each movement we make a parallel universe is made yhwach can see all of those futures clearly), negating everything that he sees & the power to literally alter the future

https://gyazo.com/6c6457c224f802a5890b9984d6a759de

https://gyazo.com/8dc66c1a75fb066766cd719d9cd26501

https://gyazo.com/e8ddd0c7e493eb405fd944329192bc40

https://gyazo.com/6e8efd25e7dd9c9e4810fc0f541fac0b

https://gyazo.com/fd0e2ab6e76bb96bbe2e14cfd21ce480

as far as i know this is casuality manipulation..

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Causality manipulation is redefining and relinking the laws of cause and effect.

Fate/Destiny/Future Manipulation allows one to decide what the future is going to be, and is what Yhwach is doing. Extremely high level future manip that lets him just say "ok I want the future to be a future where Ichigo's sword is broken and my attack went through Inoue's shield", but still future manipulation.

There is some overlap, but unless it is explicitly stated that Yhwach is somehow relinking cause and effect to achieve his outcomes, future manipulation is what he has.

 

[Stick695]

Causality manipulation is redefining and relinking the laws of cause and effect.
Fate/Destiny/Future Manipulation allows one to decide what the future is going to be, and is what Yhwach is doing. Extremely high level future manip that lets him just say "ok I want the future to be a future where Ichigo's sword is broken and my attack went through Inoue's shield", but still future manipulation.

There is some overlap, but unless it is explicitly stated that Yhwach is somehow relinking cause and effect to achieve his outcomes, future manipulation is what he has.

personal probability manipulation: Users are able to alter themselves and even the world, being able to manipulate any/all probabilities that has any involvement with them, allowing them to have literally, absolute control of their fate, future, and even their own past, with virtually no limit to what they can do. (pretty much the almighty)

https://gyazo.com/d578261e9164c842b1d1fe910e8efd61

all of this is noted as possible uses of casuality manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Monarch Laciel.

 

[Kaltias]

@Stick

No, probability manipulation is different from causality manipulation.

Causality Manipulation is "I shoot a bullet at my enemy, and he/she/it is damaged because it's the necessary consequence, even if the bullet missed"

Probability Manipulation is "I shoot a bullet and my enemy takes damage because the bullet has a 100% chance of hitting him"

Also, seeing the future and manipulating things so that they go as you want is just precognition.

 

[Stick695]

@Stick
No, probability manipulation is different from causality manipulation.

Causality Manipulation is "I shoot a bullet at my enemy, missing, and he/she/it is damaged because it's the necessary consequence"

Probability Manipulation is "I shoot a bullet and my enemy takes damage because the bullet has a 100% chance of hitting him"

Also, seeing the future and manipulating things so that they go as you want is just precognition.

if its is entirely different then why this list... https://gyazo.com/d578261e9164c842b1d1fe910e8efd61 why is it all noted as possible uses of casuality manipulation?..

precognition itself means being capable of seeing events that are going to happen in the future precognition itself doesn't do anything.

 

[Kaltias]

Being able to see all the possible futures is literally just high level precognition. If you know how to act in order to obtain something, you aren't rewriting the laws of causality. You are acting in a way that conforms to them, but serves your purpose.

You are changing the cause, and thus changing the effect. But you aren't changing the laws that rules causality itself.

 

[Stick695]

Being able to see all the possible futures is literally just high level precognition. If you know how to act in order to obtain something, you aren't rewriting the laws of causality. You are acting in a way that conforms to them, but serves your purpose.
You are changing the cause, and thus changing the effect. But you aren't changing the laws that rules causality itself.

being capable of seeing all possible futures is one of the almighty's abilities

https://gyazo.com/2bfb49502a1ba825d02770a359b42ace

as far as i've read you're talking about high levels of casuality manipulation

"At high level, the user would be able to rewrite the laws of causality as a whole, essentially playing God"

 

[Kaltias]

I'm fairly sure that "As a whole" in this context means "Every law", otherwise we would give causality manipulation to anyone who has time travel and precognition.

 

[Stick695]

time travel & precognition aren't noted in the possible uses

yhwach's ability isn't precognition alone its true power is to alter the future to his will which was shown by him destroying ichigo's horn without moving which can't be done with precognition alone.

w/ the sternritters abilities yhwach has reality warping aswell.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Causality Manipulation is a really really hax ability, and so care must be taken when placing it on the profile, otherwise it can give the wrong impression. In order for someone to have causality manipulation, they should explicitly be stated to be messing with the relationship between cause and effect, such as Lancer's Gae Bolg which explicitly reverses causality so the "target's heart is pierced" is the cause and "I throw my spear" is the effect, making it nigh-undodgeable. If causality is not mentioned, adding causality manip is a no no. Even if it is mentioned, if it is defined as something other than the relationship between cause and effect, adding it is still questionable.

These are the abilities of the Almighty:

1. See all possible futures (Advanced precog)

2. Become immune to any ability seen in the future (A form of reactive evolution)

3. Make the future whatever you want it to be. (advanced fate/future manipulation)

Nothing more.

Causality manipulation has overlap with many other powers, but then again, all warpy-type powers overlap at high enough levels.

You could warp reality to redirect cause and effect - causality manip as a application of reality warping, or vice versa

You could rewrite the concept of causalty, or make the cause of a concept's existence the effect of the concept being re-written - causality manip as an application of concept manip, or concept manip as an application of causality manip.

You could make the fate of causality to reverse or unlink, or you could rewrite the causality of fate to change it to a new fate

The point is that just because causality lists these things as an application of it does not mean that when one of those applications is done, it is automatically causality manipulation.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yhwach already has Causality Manipulation on his page though?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm not sure why he has that then. Unless there is a scan where he explicitly references manipulation causality.

 

[Stick695]

I'm not sure why he has that then. Unless there is a scan where he explicitly references manipulation causality.

https://gyazo.com/668eaa09e4b04eefcdf98470a8ade07a

https://gyazo.com/d983882eaba26628d1b783d89ec8265f

this should mean that yhwach has casuality manipulation, would it not?

 

[Antvasima]

That is fate and probability manipulation, as far as I am aware.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That is explicitly fate manipulation, not causality manipulation. And I don't see anything about probability manipulation in that quote either.

 

[Stick695]

it literally says that there are 2 types of fate manipulation.

probability manipulation & casuality manipulation.

https://gyazo.com/2d11ecb27a60dc03f700d4d582944e18

https://gyazo.com/b160ae9ce517dcb21cba92bf94d99923

 

[Kaltias]

The scans you just posted don't say absolutely anything about probability manipulation or causality manipulation.

 

[Stick695]

The scans you just posted don't say absolutely anything about probability manipulation or causality manipulation.

"all i can do is unfluence & change the entirety of fatet hat i see in mine"

fate manipulation

types

-Probability manipulation

-Casuaility manipulation

 

[Kaltias]

And? Having fate manipulation doesn't mean that you have every type of fate manipulation.

Otherwise every single reality warper would have conceptual manipulation, existence erasure, and so on.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Kaltias. I will close this thread now, as the proposition has been rejected.