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Xenoblade Chronicles Discussion Thread

combined with there also being an origin story for Kos-mos and T-elos. Where rather than being created by the Architect, they both fell to Alrest and were turned into Core Crystals. Shown in an image after clearing Torna the Golden Country.
Uh... literally where? Because not only was the first time I'd heard (in the context of Blade) of Takahashi exchanging finances with Namco being FR, but I thought that was literally just for the sake of being a guest appearance and nothing else. I know I'm already completely incredulous on Takahashi's word, but you mind telling us which interview or such you heard/found this?

Noah and Mio's relationship are a repeat of Fei/Abel and Elly's where they both have apparently died and been reborn numerous times.
Trope references =/= shared continuity, if that's what you're implying. I should not have to be the one to tell you this.

It'd be like claiming Mighty No.9 is canon to Mega Man 'because Keiji Inafune'.

Future Redeemed doubled down and also teased Xenoblade Chronicles X definitive Edition. XCXDE also has brand new lore dump and once again teased Xenosaga in the same vein that Future Redeemed teased XCXDE.
Again, what is the direct link here? At least one of you has conceded it's not something he can finalize because IP laws are dogshit, and I'm not seeing how the IND or CU has been referenced in any capacity in XCXDE. If you want to point to the warp jump / knight of the swan stuff (itself, that's not exactly ingratiating...), then see above your Noah/Fei comparison.
 
Uh... literally where? Because not only was the first time I'd heard (in the context of Blade) of Takahashi exchanging finances with Namco being FR, but I thought that was literally just for the sake of being a guest appearance and nothing else. I know I'm already completely incredulous on Takahashi's word, but you mind telling us which interview or such you heard/found this?
https://media.**********.net/attachments/678103733422522369/1360638230617133227/6u77pe2d4j221.png?ex=67fbd899&is=67fa8719&hm=352fd8f1b1941d2867b945dd815c691f787e643d39fb1f42e3a1b0a205a98a09&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2048&height=1152
This image above. And I do not remember any "Interviews" talking about KOS-MOS or T-ELOS. But their in game battle conversations, heart to hearts, quest lines, ect give us more depth. More so on KOS-MOS' end. KOS-MOS is required for a heart to heart requiring Rex, Shulk, and Elma meeting up on the World Tree. And what they all have in common is being born in different universes was the main point of that Heart to Heart. T-ELOS did come from the same world as KOS-MOS within their quest conversations. And T-ELOS: "Merge with me" followed by KOS-MOS: "Request Declined" is kind of the biggest hint to Xenosaga Episode III. Likewise, iirc, KOS-MOS even said somewhere she's not from Alrest and wasn't created by the Architect, unlike pretty much ever other blade. In another quest, there was a girl who looked like Shion, which KOS-MOS called her Shion at first before being corrected. And the official Artbook also had files on KOS-MOS about being created by Shion and that Vector Industries is also as an in verse "Trademark."
Trope references =/= shared continuity, if that's what you're implying. I should not have to be the one to tell you this.

It'd be like claiming Mighty No.9 is canon to Mega Man 'because Keiji Inafune'.
I never said it was, only that it is simply a first step hint. But we are waiting for harder evidence.
Again, what is the direct link here? At least one of you has conceded it's not something he can finalize because IP laws are dogshit, and I'm not seeing how the IND or CU has been referenced in any capacity in XCXDE. If you want to point to the warp jump / knight of the swan stuff (itself, that's not exactly ingratiating...), then see above your Noah/Fei comparison.
In Future Redeemed's case, it's hard to find a specific video given Nintendo's new policy of requiring commentary or face showing of the YouTuber. But anyone who played Future Redeemed and saw the "Universe before Klaus's Space-Time" scene could easily notice it looks just like the architecture of NLA; skells and all. And fast forward 2 years later, Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition actually came out. And the existence extended ending/post game is already common knowledge, but you know the spoiler rules. Not to mention Nintendo has also been especially strict when publicly revealing images or videos of Post Game content that was too recent.

But, if you really want to know, Josh could Spoiler tag. And again, not saying a full confirmation, but there is a tease that there may be a Xenosaga remake in the next couple years.
 
https://media.**********.net/attachments/678103733422522369/1360638230617133227/6u77pe2d4j221.png?ex=67fbd899&is=67fa8719&hm=352fd8f1b1941d2867b945dd815c691f787e643d39fb1f42e3a1b0a205a98a09&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2048&height=1152
This image above.
That... is literally just concept art. It also proves that the following scenario, if taken literally (and accounting for the idea of this being 'the same KOS-MOS'), is basically impossible, considering that XS3 has KOS-MOS kill/assimilate T-elos in the same timeline you're referencing:



Oh, and it also doesn't account for KOS-MOS's attempted scrapping at the beginning of III (w/ or not the KOS-MOS we know of knew of T-elos's existence before Yuriev/Winnicott's coup of VECTOR is one genuine question that is never answered... as if I haven't mentioned that enough). You could say "oh, but there's audio drama CDs!", but those are unreliable despite their claimed continuity/canonicity because the 'Richard tortures Jr.' scene is claimed to take place between the events of the first two Saga games (keep in mind the jump from 1 to 2 is basically a beeline, with nothing being referenced within it's contents).

And I do not remember any "Interviews" talking about KOS-MOS or T-ELOS. But their in game battle conversations, heart to hearts, quest lines, ect give us more depth. More so on KOS-MOS' end. KOS-MOS is required for a heart to heart requiring Rex, Shulk, and Elma meeting up on the World Tree. And what they all have in common is being born in different universes was the main point of that Heart to Heart.
This is largely just fanservice, but continuing...

T-ELOS did come from the same world as KOS-MOS within their quest conversations. And T-ELOS: "Merge with me" followed by KOS-MOS: "Request Declined" is kind of the biggest hint to Xenosaga Episode III.
See above.

Likewise, iirc, KOS-MOS even said somewhere she's not from Alrest and wasn't created by the Architect, unlike pretty much ever other blade. In another quest, there was a girl who looked like Shion, which KOS-MOS called her Shion at first before being corrected.
(EDIT AFTER CHECKING THE BLADE QUEST): She... doesn't do that? Is this a localization derp? Or am I not looking hard enough?

And the official Artbook also had files on KOS-MOS about being created by Shion and that Vector Industries is also as an in verse "Trademark."
1) Source (outside of the Blade Awakening cutscene, which would fall under the fanservice umbrella), and 2) then why was everyone losing their shit about Yuriev being referenced and 'but muh radio', as if it told us anything different to what we "already knew"? (You already know why I take umbrage, but for the sake of argument I'll dignify it).

In Future Redeemed's case, it's hard to find a specific video given Nintendo's new policy of requiring commentary or face showing of the YouTuber-

d219e9d212127d5fffeebe596e3b7a3ef9bf45da.webp


-But anyone who played Future Redeemed and saw the "Universe before Klaus's Space-Time" scene could easily notice it looks just like the architecture of NLA; skells and all.
Which isn't really a reason to begin with, because the Conduit being renamed after being called 'Zohar' in the games files for copyright reasons. 1) that would have to contend with discrepancies in the location, and 2) Re-used assets for utilitarian purposes are not a new thing - 'the houses of NLA in Klaus's world' is no different.

And fast forward 2 years later, Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition actually came out. And the existence extended ending/post game is already common knowledge, but you know the spoiler rules. Not to mention Nintendo has also been especially strict when publicly revealing images or videos of Post Game content that was too recent.
Define 'too recent'

But, if you really want to know, Josh could Spoiler tag. And again, not saying a full confirmation, but there is a tease that there may be a Xenosaga remake in the next couple years.

Sure, I guess.

@JoshSSJGod may we ask of your input?
 
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So your issue is the lack of consistent continuity? If you think the verse currently has an issue with continuity within each other by all means make a CRT to change it if you’re going to complain about that.
 
just now finished XDE epilogue, I am curious to know how the drift between dimensions should be interpreted within the xenoblade cosmology. Without looking at any other Xeno games (which if you do then the closest thing to it would be the imaginary number domain that's detailed in Xenosaga) I am curious of how this will affect things
 
no no I totally get it, you already explained that to me, I was just sharing it here on a thread just to have it out there to bring in discussion with more people since I haven't seen any so far
Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to playing the game in full so I can't exactly update the cosmology blog with that in mind
 
just now finished XDE epilogue, I am curious to know how the drift between dimensions should be interpreted within the xenoblade cosmology. Without looking at any other Xeno games (which if you do then the closest thing to it would be the imaginary number domain that's detailed in Xenosaga) I am curious of how this will affect things
Depends on the context on how the wiki treats multiversal containers. Back when XB1DE came out there was an interview with Takahashi where he mentioned all the games were connected within a greater space-time. It was vague and not elaborated on (wouldn't be the first or last time he dropped big lore details into interviews nor the last, lookin at you Fiora being Lucky Seven) but now with XBXDE we have seemingly found out what he was referring.


The Rift Between Worlds that shows up in XDE is probably what he was talking about at that time though we didn't know it yet. It works practically the same as the imaginary numbers domain in Xenosaga but instead on a multiversal scale instead of Xenosaga's universal scale. Other than potential cosmology buffs (not sure how the wiki treats greater space-times and multiversal containers nowadays) the main thing this does is make it so all the concepts in the verse are effectively type 1 due to the fact that all that information persisting within the Rift Between Worlds and persists even after the universe where that concept originates from is destroyed. The Rift has an interesting aspect to it that I am unsure how to exactly quantify as where all of time seems to be at "one point". What I mean is that in the Rift we see Xenoblade 1's ending, start of Xenoblade 2 and the end of Xenoblade 3. As we know these events do not happen anywhere close to one another (especially given how 3 takes place in a literal instant due to the stopped time) so the fact all of these are seen is interesting to say the least. We also know that the Rift is capable of flooding those who ender it without any protection with the information of all sentient live from all universes (which given we currently have the Multiverse as infinite in size would effectively be infinite information) as seen with Al who by his own words was saved thanks to his merging with the Ares Prime. Another thing is that within this Rift is the afterlife as seen with Lao. This would technically mean that characters who can traverse universes by themselves (e.g. Ontos for this scenario) would be able to die and then just teleport back like Goku using instant transmission from the otherworld to earth. So yeah, that's some food for thought. I overall find this addition to the cosmology really interesting as it brings up many questions I hope we get to see answered in XB4
 
I didn't know where else to ask this, but do you guys ever plan on making a profile for Xenosaga? I'm replaying all 3 games rn cuz it's been years, so if you guys did have plans (but were procrastinating due to not wanting to replay the game or whatever) I wouldn't mind providing the scans/feats and whatnot. Ofc, if you guys don't ever plan on doing it feel free to disregard this message ig
 
I didn't know where else to ask this, but do you guys ever plan on making a profile for Xenosaga? I'm replaying all 3 games rn cuz it's been years, so if you guys did have plans (but were procrastinating due to not wanting to replay the game or whatever) I wouldn't mind providing the scans/feats and whatnot. Ofc, if you guys don't ever plan on doing it feel free to disregard this message ig
Eventually. There isn't really any rush to do so as of rn. Everyone kinda knows Xenosaga is gonna hard to fully implement onto the wiki given how high its cosmology can scale. Unless you're Marvel/DC getting verses with big cosmologies onto the wiki takes a ton of time.
 
Eventually. There isn't really any rush to do so as of rn. Everyone kinda knows Xenosaga is gonna hard to fully implement onto the wiki given how high its cosmology can scale. Unless you're Marvel/DC getting verses with big cosmologies onto the wiki takes a ton of time.
Is Xenosaga really THAT big? I swear I don't remember...but yeah that makes sense, well nvm then. I was gonna prepare myself to start ssing stuff but ig you guys will handle that when you get to it
 
Is Xenosaga really THAT big? I swear I don't remember...but yeah that makes sense, well nvm then. I was gonna prepare myself to start ssing stuff but ig you guys will handle that when you get to it
It's not just a matter of size, it's a matter of continuity.

Zero points for guessing what I'm about to say in regards to that.
 
Is Xenosaga really THAT big? I swear I don't remember...but yeah that makes sense, well nvm then. I was gonna prepare myself to start ssing stuff but ig you guys will handle that when you get to it
There is a lot tied to it. The main 3 games, Pied Piper, the DS Ports which have exclusive content, the various databooks to go through. Thats like 500 hours of content to go through. That'll take awhile.

There was a Cosmology Blog made for it awhile ago here through the thread for it didn't go anywhere and ended up stagnating.
 
There is a lot tied to it. The main 3 games, Pied Piper, the DS Ports which have exclusive content, the various databooks to go through. Thats like 500 hours of content to go through. That'll take awhile.
And yet the Enelcordians wanted me to believe that the DS title had nothing to do with the main trilogy for story purposes...

...Lord, make it make sense...
f875cb8a3586bdd8fbc2ef26ffeef12cd9176144.jpg
 
There is a lot tied to it. The main 3 games, Pied Piper, the DS Ports which have exclusive content, the various databooks to go through. Thats like 500 hours of content to go through. That'll take awhile.
That's true, I mean I know the series is decent in length/continuity even though it never reached the 6 games it was originally intended to span.
There was a Cosmology Blog made for it awhile ago here through the thread for it didn't go anywhere and ended up stagnating.
Hmm...interesting ig, tho I suppose this was before you guys considered tackling it/were busy with the Blade games?
 
I haven't heard you say a lot of terms.
Oh gee thanks

OK, but fr:


Tl;dr they're a rabid cult following of the XS trilogy who will treat the database like a bible, and claim you 'don't get/understand the series' for pointing out Saga's story and continuity issues, or use lack of sales as an excuse. Trying to get a fulfilling conversation out of them is like trying to draw blood from a stone.
 
Oh gee thanks

OK, but fr:


Tl;dr they're a rabid cult following of the XS trilogy who will treat the database like a bible, and claim you 'don't get/understand the series' for pointing out Saga's story and continuity issues, or use lack of sales as an excuse. Trying to get a fulfilling conversation out of them is like trying to draw blood from a stone.
Enel was probably right
 
btw should we work on trying to get a new xenoblade cosmology page? I'm seeing memory space and the far flung dimension to be put under much more scrutiny lately and even more so if any of the characters should even scale to it at all, like this blog discussing composite Vegito vs Pneuma which is one of the first majure xenoblade blogs I believe to be made on the topic (also not forgetting to mention that we need to consider the rift between worlds) plus there's the very large amount of people who do NOT like xenosaga to be considered for blade's cosmology, so maybe we should discuss how valid that is and maybe do a cosmology page with only info found in xenoblade
 
btw should we work on trying to get a new xenoblade cosmology page? I'm seeing memory space and the far flung dimension to be put under much more scrutiny lately and even more so if any of the characters should even scale to it at all, like this blog discussing composite Vegito vs Pneuma which is one of the first majure xenoblade blogs I believe to be made on the topic (also not forgetting to mention that we need to consider the rift between worlds) plus there's the very large amount of people who do NOT like xenosaga to be considered for blade's cosmology, so maybe we should discuss how valid that is and maybe do a cosmology page with only info found in xenoblade
Take these blogs with a grain of salt. There is a lot of detail just missing in them (Clover's own blog goes into way more detail than it did here given Xeno is a series with a large history) alongside details that are outright wrong on both sides (Looking at Beat's world). It says stuff like base Malos being superior to Pneuma which is just insane given Nia was able to compete with him and the entirety of the Torna DLC.
 
Take these blogs with a grain of salt. There is a lot of detail just missing in them (Clover's own blog goes into way more detail than it did here given Xeno is a series with a large history) alongside details that are outright wrong on both sides (Looking at Beat's world). It says stuff like base Malos being superior to Pneuma which is just insane given Nia was able to compete with him and the entirety of the Torna DLC.
oh no I totally understand that much (I don't know anything abt Dragon ball heroes but the idea of it 8D would be really funny bc it would put it above persona cosmology and that's just goofy to me), specially the Alpha > Malos > Pneuma part which makes no sense when the whole point of the Alpha fight is that without Ouroboros (aka Pneuma's) power they would have lost, among other weird things

but still, I do see a lot of people who have issues with how the 6D arguments for xenoblade are used, even I a little bit am confused at times bc I'm not sure why "a power that leaks from a 6D dimension make it 6D, since that's just where the power comes from, that's not the same as destroying/affecting a 6D structure, right? that part is something I think should be clarified better I think

plus again, while I understand the general argument used for it, the issue a lot of people tend to have is "just because it works this way in this one series, doesn't mean it's the same in another series" which is where a lot of people seen have a problem with, which is why I just think maybe doing a new page with further knowledge coming from xenoblade X post story content would be interesting
 
but still, I do see a lot of people who have issues with how the 6D arguments for xenoblade are used, even I a little bit am confused at times bc I'm not sure why "a power that leaks from a 6D dimension make it 6D, since that's just where the power comes from, that's not the same as destroying/affecting a 6D structure, right? that part is something I think should be clarified better I think
It doesn't matter given we're dealing with infinities here. The fact remains that they're being powered by 6-D energy, even if we say the Conduit only has access to 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of that power it is still 6-D energy that is empowering our characters as that is how infinities work. It cannot ever drop down to 5-D or anything less as that is infinitely less than what the source of said power is.

plus again, while I understand the general argument used for it, the issue a lot of people tend to have is "just because it works this way in this one series, doesn't mean it's the same in another series" which is where a lot of people seen have a problem with, which is why I just think maybe doing a new page with further knowledge coming from xenoblade X post story content would be interesting
We don't actually directly use anything from Xenosaga for anything here (if we did then we'd have Low 1-A to 1-A on our hands given the Upper Domain transcending all human concepts), we only ever use them as supporting evidence as the series has made quite a habit of reusing ideas (from Xenosaga using Xenogears ideas and now Xenoblade using ideas from both). The blog Clover made goes over this, we are not saying they are the same thing but we can use them to gain insight on the intent of the author (plus there a blog linked in there on how many ideas including the one on higher dimensions are identical throughout the series). As for the X stuff, that's a W.I.P, I made the Void profile fairly recently and I'm still lookin for stuff as to fully go over what the Rift Between Worlds directly is. It could even provide a higher rating in 7-D given it matches the "Greater Space-Time" statement Takahashi gave about the cosmology back when XB1DE came out but I'd have to look into that more alongside getting more input from other people who are knowledgeable on these topics.
 
It doesn't matter given we're dealing with infinities here. The fact remains that they're being powered by 6-D energy, even if we say the Conduit only has access to 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of that power it is still 6-D energy that is empowering our characters as that is how infinities work. It cannot ever drop down to 5-D or anything less as that is infinitely less than what the source of said power is.


We don't actually directly use anything from Xenosaga for anything here (if we did then we'd have Low 1-A to 1-A on our hands given the Upper Domain transcending all human concepts), we only ever use them as supporting evidence as the series has made quite a habit of reusing ideas (from Xenosaga using Xenogears ideas and now Xenoblade using ideas from both). The blog Clover made goes over this, we are not saying they are the same thing but we can use them to gain insight on the intent of the author (plus there a blog linked in there on how many ideas including the one on higher dimensions are identical throughout the series). As for the X stuff, that's a W.I.P, I made the Void profile fairly recently and I'm still lookin for stuff as to fully go over what the Rift Between Worlds directly is. It could even provide a higher rating in 7-D given it matches the "Greater Space-Time" statement Takahashi gave about the cosmology back when XB1DE came out but I'd have to look into that more alongside getting more input from other people who are knowledgeable on these topics.
first part alright, understood

I know it was not being claimed that it's the same thing, I'm saying that ultimately, using a rule stablished in one series to say it should reflect on a different series is a lot to swallow for a lot of people considering how the vs community can be when it comes to context

about the greater space, might be a good idea to link the interview here whenever possible, there is some interesting "time dillations" thing going on with it considering Al's time in there was different than Elma's.

also also I've seen the "human concepts" thing for saga before and like, I don't remember the argument properly but I do recall how it said something like "since it transcends all human concepts it should transcend the concept of dimensions since we came up with that" or something like that (correct me if I'm wrong I'm speaking purely out of memory) and I think that argument doesn't make a lot of sense since that's not something related to the cosmology? again, clarification would be nice

finally, I actually know someone's who's currently making a Kos-mos blog, I'll link their blog here once they're finished
 
I know it was not being claimed that it's the same thing, I'm saying that ultimately, using a rule stablished in one series to say it should reflect on a different series is a lot to swallow for a lot of people considering how the vs community can be when it comes to context
Nothing we can do about that in particular, people will always find stuff a lot to swallow given how subjective this all is. That's why its supporting evidence at best, use it to reinforce these ideas so that people can get a better understand as to why these conclusions were made.
about the greater space, might be a good idea to link the interview here whenever possible, there is some interesting "time dillations" thing going on with it considering Al's time in there was different than Elma's.
It was here in regards to why Alvis has a Core Crystal. That is also something to consider given we saw the start of 1, 2 and the end of 3.
also also I've seen the "human concepts" thing for saga before and like, I don't remember the argument properly but I do recall how it said something like "since it transcends all human concepts it should transcend the concept of dimensions since we came up with that" or something like that (correct me if I'm wrong I'm speaking purely out of memory) and I think that argument doesn't make a lot of sense since that's not something related to the cosmology? again, clarification would be nice

finally, I actually know someone's who's currently making a Kos-mos blog, I'll link their blog here once they're finished
Its in regard to how the Imaginary Numbers Domain contains everything abstract from minds, souls to concepts. But yeah, it would be by transcending the concept of dimensions given there are numerous dimensional concepts that exist in Xenosaga such as Hilbert Space from my knowledge of it. On the wiki transcending dimensions as a whole is Low 1-A to 1-A depending on variation. If you wish to ignore that though there is a blog that goes over the cosmology.
 
Yeah, we should take any blogspot or reddit articles with a grain of salt. Especially if they were made by people who may have been permabanned trolls, or had a history of abusing sock puppet accounts.

But I think our blogs have do an excellent job elaborating the bare minimum of the cosmology. And it's not like we truly merged the cosmologies outright, they're simply used as referencing material. Takahashi has a lot of experience with upper-D planes as well as Meta-Fictional cosmologies are the main highlights. That, and the god tiers are essentially similar types of deities. There could be an eventual future that surprises us with lore dumps that could change everything, and it's kind of heavily hinted that Takahashi wants to merge the connections as part of the same multiverse, but obviously cannot due to complicated license restrictions between Square Enix, Namco Bandai, and Nintendo. So we currently are just using the lowest interpretation that is otherwise on board with the consistency of how he writes things without fully merging the conceptual cosmologies of all Xeno games.
 
hey I got a question but I've seen being brought up that the statement about memory space being "beyond space and time" from the xenoblade 1 guidebook to be an incorrect translation, do we have the original japanese text to verify that? I believe it's important since it's often used as an argument for DT in xenoblade
 
It comes from a fan made English translations that a whole bunch of people worked hard extensively on. Also, Japanese translations are often subjective given that Japanese is a very complex language that has so many variations, and Japanese dictionary definitions and thesauruses may have flexible policies on synonyms. So all Japanese to English translations are dubious and there aren't any real rights or wrongs as long as it's educated humans doing the translations as opposed to abusing MTLs. It is also common for people to just have condescending views in general where they just say "It's wrong because I say so" without any real evidence. And they probably over rely on MTLs if anything. But wouldn't help to have a scan of Japanese raw page for our on wiki Translation Helpers to take a look.

But I doubt it's incorrect because we see numerous demonstrations and not just statements. It is said in the back story that Zanza and Meyneth battle each other every 1000 years and that they have consistently destroyed and recreated universe via space-time transition events, but memory space is still in tact. And Memory Space is the native realm of Zanza and Meyneth where they oversee the Passage of Fate. It's basically treated as a higher dimensional plane grander than the main universe where it's own temporal dimension is infinitely larger given the numerous beginning and end of times being contained; kind of like an extra-dimensional temporal layer that is quantitatively superior.
 
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