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Xeelee Revision
- Thread starter FanofRPGs
- Start date
- 3,363
- 502
- Thread starter
- #42
How about this:
The Photino Birds just need to be changed slightly:
4-C to 4-A | High 2-A in scope and with best tech
Star level to Multi-Solar System level conventionally (They feed on stars, can prolong supernovae, and launch galaxies at relativistic speeds) | High Multiverse level in scope and best tech (Due to their dark material existence, they outnumbered the Baryonic-based Xeelee across all of Configuration Space. Their tech also equals, if not surpasses that of the Xeelee such that the Xeelee relied on The Ring to flee to another universe)
- We, for the time being, remove the Monads page or just put it at low 1-C until we can demonstrably prove they are higher or 1-A
- The Xeelee, Photino Bird, and Transcendence page profiles get fixed
The Photino Birds just need to be changed slightly:
4-C to 4-A | High 2-A in scope and with best tech
Star level to Multi-Solar System level conventionally (They feed on stars, can prolong supernovae, and launch galaxies at relativistic speeds) | High Multiverse level in scope and best tech (Due to their dark material existence, they outnumbered the Baryonic-based Xeelee across all of Configuration Space. Their tech also equals, if not surpasses that of the Xeelee such that the Xeelee relied on The Ring to flee to another universe)
- 3,363
- 502
- Thread starter
- #47
Ultima was one of the members, on discord DM, to define what "phase space" dimensions are and I assume he would agree with the upgradesAntvasima said:
ZacharyGrossman is the most knowledgable on Xeelee but he is sort of banned right now, but on Discord he seemd okay with the revisions, but IDK, will askh im again
Jockey1337 is knowledgable on Xeelee and agrees with them it seems
The conclusions are
- Configuration Space is High 2-A, not 1-B
- More elaboration on Xeelee/Photino Bird pages
- Monads are ??? and should be a WiP disclaimer and at least Low 1-C for now
- 167,703
- 76,302
Okay. I will unlock the following pages:
- 3,363
- 502
- Thread starter
- #54
Okay I forgot to edit two pages:
The Anti-Xeelee
Michael Poole
Furthermore, according to ZacharyGrossman:
-The Photino Birds and Xeelee should have type 4 acausality normally, as they are space-time defect/singularities, but the Anti-Xeelee remains type 5
-A more appropriate picture for the Monads
-A better picture for the Anti-Xeelee (current picture is The Ring). I may have to construct my own picture which is appropriate for the Anti-Xeelee eventually
-Michael Poole and Anti-Xeelee get the same justifications as other pages
Also, I plan a speed revision, but I don't have a dime of that collected. In the future there may be more for the Transcendence and Anti-Xeelee too
The Anti-Xeelee
Michael Poole
Furthermore, according to ZacharyGrossman:
-The Photino Birds and Xeelee should have type 4 acausality normally, as they are space-time defect/singularities, but the Anti-Xeelee remains type 5
-A more appropriate picture for the Monads
-A better picture for the Anti-Xeelee (current picture is The Ring). I may have to construct my own picture which is appropriate for the Anti-Xeelee eventually
-Michael Poole and Anti-Xeelee get the same justifications as other pages
Also, I plan a speed revision, but I don't have a dime of that collected. In the future there may be more for the Transcendence and Anti-Xeelee too
- 3,363
- 502
- Thread starter
- #56
I have a question, so the realm of the Monads whole all other universes of varying complexity, an infinite amount most likely and each one is supposed to be unique, and there is suggested some universes which exist uncompactified, so theoretically even a configuration space with its 11 dimensions uncompactified (Which is the explicit example seen in the Xeelee Sequence) + configuration space and domaisn would be 1-B. Could this be accepted for the Monads as this exemplar universe likely exists in the realm of the monads given its nature and they would exist outisde of it?
- 1,484
- 169
I will comment it soon. There is some wrong info in current profiles.
- 3,363
- 502
- Thread starter
- #63
Sufficient disagrees and he thinks the Monads are frankly untierable given the current wealth of information. While I get where he comes from, but I believe we can still give the minimal tier of Low 1-C for transcending the Configuration Space under the caveat that they are likely much, much more powerful.Antvasima said:
- 1,484
- 169
We need to fix some info in the profiles.
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It may be wrong because we actually don't know whether they are killable or not.
Sufficient's explanation:
We do know that they can be stirred and subsequently harmed by affecting the black holes in which they do sleep. Such possibility is in fact the pivotal point near the ending of the Exultant.
[While empires rose and fell, while the universe continued its endless unraveling of possibility after possibility, the monads slumbered. They had done their work, made their contribution. Now they waited for the precious moments of the furthest future when this universe, in turn grown old, spawned new fragments of chaos, and they could wake again.
But in their epochal sleep, even the monads could be drawn into history. And even they could be harmed. - Exultant]
[Enduring Hope thought he understood. "And if we attack the black hole," he said doggedly, "we could destroy the monads. Is that what you fear?"
"Yes," Nilis said gratefully, sweat beading his brow. "Oh, my boy — yes! That is precisely what I fear."
Kimmer said, "But even if you are right, there are other galaxies. Other nests of monads."
Nilis insisted, "We can't make any simple assumptions about this situation, Marshal." He spoke rapidly about levels of reality, of interconnectivity in higher dimensions. "By striking a blow in this one place we may wreak damage everywhere, and for all time…"
Luru Parz said slowly, "The Commissary fears that if we destroy the monads we will break the thread — don't you, Nilis? — the shining thread of life, of creativity, that connects this universe to those that preceded it, and to those that will follow. To kill them would be patricide — or deicide, perhaps." - Exultant]
This action could probably result not only in the destruction of "this" universe, but also every other that could come after it, in the grand cycle of the universes within the sequence.
However at the same time it is unknown if such actions would indeed end up with Monads death. Nilis in the end isn't certain what will happen in such situation. In his own words "we can't make any simple assumptions about this situation". What is known to us is that attacking black holes might end up causing destruction on an unimaginably large scale and might indeed kill Monads sleeping there.
However at the same time the central black holes across the universe within the Xeelee sequence had to experience, in their past, natural collisions with other black holes. Such collisions would end up generating tremondous amounts of energy, in the form of gravitational waves, which would be far greater than what could ever be generated by the Coalition made black hole weapons, which fire far smaller black holes than the astrophysical ones. In this context, seeing how the universe still exists up to this point in the story, we can say that the Nilis fears seem to be exaggerated.
At the same time the Xeelee did leave the Chandra after humans attack on it, so there seems to be some reason to be afraid after all.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
Sufficient's explanation:
The thing is, what you are saying here is not the case. In the book in question this is made a little bit convoluted, but the Transcendence is stated to need their Redemption in order to become fully "infinite" and well… transcend.
[The Transcendence needed Redemption, a cleansing of the pain of the past, before it could advance to the mighty possibilities of the future.- Transcendent]
And at the same time it needs to be "infinite" in order to be capable of conducting projects that are a part of said Redemption in the first place ( note the "/" in the first citation, this weren't added by me there and I would say that they do make it rather clear that the Transcendence has both reached their singularity and is not there "yet" )
[A full Hypostatic Union of every soul in past and future with every other, the ultimate logic, would require an infinite effort. But the Transcendence will be/is infinite and eternal; for such an entity an infinite recursion is possible, and so it will/must come to pass. You understand that now. - Transcendent]
[Through the Witnessing and the Hypostatic Union, it tried to bring the suffering of the past into its full awareness, and so to atone. But mere watching could never be enough. So the Transcendence went further. In the Restoration, every human that possibly could have existed would be brought into reality. It would be a stunning, shining moment of rectification. Such trivialities as causality and consequence would be abandoned—but the Transcendence would be infinite, I reminded myself; and to an infinite being even infinite tasks are trivial. - Transcendent]
In other words, it can be said that the capability of conducting infinite tasks, that is given to it by "transcending", is needed for it to transcend in the first place. Thus the capability to transcend becomes obviously paradoxical, but as for the Xeeleeverse time travel such trivialities like causality are unimportant, it doesn't seem to be a problem. In the end the book makes it clear that the only thing that stays between them casting aside their humanity and going through their Redemption plans, is only their conscience which opposes them influencing the humanity's past. This of course has no meaning onto any sort of discussions on this board, with the possible exception of some deep literature/philosophical ones.
As for the Xeelee being "weaker" than such "transcendent Transcendence", the first thing is that the sentence in question doesn't really carry any information that would give us basis for such notion. The only data that it gives is that the humanity will either "lose" against the Xeelee and be crushed ( which we can all agree on what does this means ), or it will "win" by becoming transcendent. However we really don't even know if by "winning" Baxter means it in an direct war against the Xeelee. The other interpretation, which would fit the theme set in this book much better, is that the "win" here is merely a survival of the human civilisation in this universe.
["Why must the Transcendence aspire to this? Because it is essential if we are to survive. Alia, the more awake you become, the more control of your environment you acquire, and the more power over your destiny you acquire. We must escape from our long dreaming if we want to live! - Transcendent]
The above statement doesn't sound as one made by someone on a cusp of a total military victory against their greatest ( direct ) opponents.
In such situation the "win" can be understood also as Transcendence making any such war "too costly" for the Xeelee, thus saving humanity from their revenge. Or maybe Transcendence craving their own path of the universe and leaving the Xeelee to duke it out with the Birds, which is kind of what they did prior to that. Or maybe it is meant that they will finally be capable of entering some sort of dialogue on somehow even footing and thus "win" this war by negotiations. There are probably also other options, but I think that you do get the point here.
Also, this interview is from 2004. While ignoring it a big no no, which is why I do address this point in the first place, we have to also consider that some things have changed since then. Namely as of the newest books the Transcendence never existed in the first place. All because of actions of the Xeelee done despite said human faction being seemingly immune to changes in their past. I think that this kind of answers how this conflict have in the end... ended.
['But,' Asher said, 'look at it another way. That's all we found. Of humanity, I mean. M15, Wolf 359.' Jophiel nodded slowly.
'Right. Whereas, if humans had established some Galaxy-spanning super-civilisation—'
'We'd know about it. They'd be here by now.'
'But all we found here,' Nicola said, 'is one shabby lifedome in that Ghost cupworld.'
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[Think of the story of the race. Our timelines emerged from the oceans, and for millions of years circled the Sun with Earth. Then, in a brief, spectacular explosion of causality, the timelines erupted in wild scribbles, across the universe. Humanity was everywhere. But now, our possibilities have reduced. Lieserl, c. ad 5,000,000
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[It was another time, another place, where human civilisation had survived for a million years ― they called themselves the Transcendents ― and was doomed. Well, Luru Parz tried to save Earth from the Xeelee. For, you see, in the final stages of our glorious Galactic war against the Xeelee, we were driven all the way back to the Solar System . . . What she did was to turn Earth into Old Earth, a jar of slow time stopped up to preserve its children.
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
3) The Photino Birds
Proposal: I think we should rename the page. There are not only Photino Birds but "Ancients" as well.
Restorator's answer:
Photino Birds , or , to be more accurate , dark matter Ancients who are superiors to photino birds that we know from before who live in stars:
['Ah,' Jophiel said, grinning. Enjoying the play of ideas.
'But these tinkering Ancients had rivals as lords of creation, didn't they? Who might not have liked to see such widespread meddling with the light stuff, the baryonic matter ― their own domain.'
'The baryonic lords,' Nicola said, rolling the words around her mouth. 'I like that. The Xeelee. There must have been a first confrontation. Xeelee against dark-matter creatures.'
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) (Kindle Locations 3767-3772). Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[Well, I hope not. We need them, in the end, you see, Jophiel. And they need us. The photino birds ― fish, whatever ― and their transgalactic parents that you called Ancients.
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) (Kindle Locations 7934-7935). Orion. Kindle Edition.]
(There is now distinction between these two. Most likely these birds are compared to Ancients as lesser baryonic species to Xeelee)
Are indeed winning war against the Xeelee but this wasnt one sided won. We know for sure that when this war only started Ancients had significant adantage in form of many times superior resources due dark matter significantly overweight baryonic matter in cosmos. Then , when war stepped into CTC era and both sides get literally infinite resource bases Ancients just continue to keep their domination in every possible timeline from beginning. But this was an eternal war in all possible configurations where Xeelee standed enough for achieve their plans in form of clearing galaxies from dark matter for allow baryonic species to evolve and then give them booths for evacuation into created and engeneered for them new perfect uni/multiverses. Only after that they start their own migration in configuration. Also we know for sure that Ancients tried to destroy Ring faster for preventing Xeelee return....
But this was a war in their home multiverse where Ancients had basic adantage in all possible altarnative realities from beginning and just keeping it for always have the upper hand. I would be not so sure that if for example Ancients will attack some multiverse that Xeelee prepared for war firstly. Lets take multiverse that they created for Ghosts and instead making it as perfect home for their younger baryonic brothers made it into fortress cosmos which would be shaped by antiXeelee for defence from incursion. Honestly I dont think that Ancients will be able to gain advantage in such a situation. Of course they can grant that war will be eternal but at least in my opinion situation will be reversed from original with Xeelee have always an upper hand.
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It may be wrong because we actually don't know whether they are killable or not.
Sufficient's explanation:
We do know that they can be stirred and subsequently harmed by affecting the black holes in which they do sleep. Such possibility is in fact the pivotal point near the ending of the Exultant.
[While empires rose and fell, while the universe continued its endless unraveling of possibility after possibility, the monads slumbered. They had done their work, made their contribution. Now they waited for the precious moments of the furthest future when this universe, in turn grown old, spawned new fragments of chaos, and they could wake again.
But in their epochal sleep, even the monads could be drawn into history. And even they could be harmed. - Exultant]
[Enduring Hope thought he understood. "And if we attack the black hole," he said doggedly, "we could destroy the monads. Is that what you fear?"
"Yes," Nilis said gratefully, sweat beading his brow. "Oh, my boy — yes! That is precisely what I fear."
Kimmer said, "But even if you are right, there are other galaxies. Other nests of monads."
Nilis insisted, "We can't make any simple assumptions about this situation, Marshal." He spoke rapidly about levels of reality, of interconnectivity in higher dimensions. "By striking a blow in this one place we may wreak damage everywhere, and for all time…"
Luru Parz said slowly, "The Commissary fears that if we destroy the monads we will break the thread — don't you, Nilis? — the shining thread of life, of creativity, that connects this universe to those that preceded it, and to those that will follow. To kill them would be patricide — or deicide, perhaps." - Exultant]
This action could probably result not only in the destruction of "this" universe, but also every other that could come after it, in the grand cycle of the universes within the sequence.
However at the same time it is unknown if such actions would indeed end up with Monads death. Nilis in the end isn't certain what will happen in such situation. In his own words "we can't make any simple assumptions about this situation". What is known to us is that attacking black holes might end up causing destruction on an unimaginably large scale and might indeed kill Monads sleeping there.
However at the same time the central black holes across the universe within the Xeelee sequence had to experience, in their past, natural collisions with other black holes. Such collisions would end up generating tremondous amounts of energy, in the form of gravitational waves, which would be far greater than what could ever be generated by the Coalition made black hole weapons, which fire far smaller black holes than the astrophysical ones. In this context, seeing how the universe still exists up to this point in the story, we can say that the Nilis fears seem to be exaggerated.
At the same time the Xeelee did leave the Chandra after humans attack on it, so there seems to be some reason to be afraid after all.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
Sufficient's explanation:
The thing is, what you are saying here is not the case. In the book in question this is made a little bit convoluted, but the Transcendence is stated to need their Redemption in order to become fully "infinite" and well… transcend.
[The Transcendence needed Redemption, a cleansing of the pain of the past, before it could advance to the mighty possibilities of the future.- Transcendent]
And at the same time it needs to be "infinite" in order to be capable of conducting projects that are a part of said Redemption in the first place ( note the "/" in the first citation, this weren't added by me there and I would say that they do make it rather clear that the Transcendence has both reached their singularity and is not there "yet" )
[A full Hypostatic Union of every soul in past and future with every other, the ultimate logic, would require an infinite effort. But the Transcendence will be/is infinite and eternal; for such an entity an infinite recursion is possible, and so it will/must come to pass. You understand that now. - Transcendent]
[Through the Witnessing and the Hypostatic Union, it tried to bring the suffering of the past into its full awareness, and so to atone. But mere watching could never be enough. So the Transcendence went further. In the Restoration, every human that possibly could have existed would be brought into reality. It would be a stunning, shining moment of rectification. Such trivialities as causality and consequence would be abandoned—but the Transcendence would be infinite, I reminded myself; and to an infinite being even infinite tasks are trivial. - Transcendent]
In other words, it can be said that the capability of conducting infinite tasks, that is given to it by "transcending", is needed for it to transcend in the first place. Thus the capability to transcend becomes obviously paradoxical, but as for the Xeeleeverse time travel such trivialities like causality are unimportant, it doesn't seem to be a problem. In the end the book makes it clear that the only thing that stays between them casting aside their humanity and going through their Redemption plans, is only their conscience which opposes them influencing the humanity's past. This of course has no meaning onto any sort of discussions on this board, with the possible exception of some deep literature/philosophical ones.
As for the Xeelee being "weaker" than such "transcendent Transcendence", the first thing is that the sentence in question doesn't really carry any information that would give us basis for such notion. The only data that it gives is that the humanity will either "lose" against the Xeelee and be crushed ( which we can all agree on what does this means ), or it will "win" by becoming transcendent. However we really don't even know if by "winning" Baxter means it in an direct war against the Xeelee. The other interpretation, which would fit the theme set in this book much better, is that the "win" here is merely a survival of the human civilisation in this universe.
["Why must the Transcendence aspire to this? Because it is essential if we are to survive. Alia, the more awake you become, the more control of your environment you acquire, and the more power over your destiny you acquire. We must escape from our long dreaming if we want to live! - Transcendent]
The above statement doesn't sound as one made by someone on a cusp of a total military victory against their greatest ( direct ) opponents.
In such situation the "win" can be understood also as Transcendence making any such war "too costly" for the Xeelee, thus saving humanity from their revenge. Or maybe Transcendence craving their own path of the universe and leaving the Xeelee to duke it out with the Birds, which is kind of what they did prior to that. Or maybe it is meant that they will finally be capable of entering some sort of dialogue on somehow even footing and thus "win" this war by negotiations. There are probably also other options, but I think that you do get the point here.
Also, this interview is from 2004. While ignoring it a big no no, which is why I do address this point in the first place, we have to also consider that some things have changed since then. Namely as of the newest books the Transcendence never existed in the first place. All because of actions of the Xeelee done despite said human faction being seemingly immune to changes in their past. I think that this kind of answers how this conflict have in the end... ended.
['But,' Asher said, 'look at it another way. That's all we found. Of humanity, I mean. M15, Wolf 359.' Jophiel nodded slowly.
'Right. Whereas, if humans had established some Galaxy-spanning super-civilisation—'
'We'd know about it. They'd be here by now.'
'But all we found here,' Nicola said, 'is one shabby lifedome in that Ghost cupworld.'
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[Think of the story of the race. Our timelines emerged from the oceans, and for millions of years circled the Sun with Earth. Then, in a brief, spectacular explosion of causality, the timelines erupted in wild scribbles, across the universe. Humanity was everywhere. But now, our possibilities have reduced. Lieserl, c. ad 5,000,000
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[It was another time, another place, where human civilisation had survived for a million years ― they called themselves the Transcendents ― and was doomed. Well, Luru Parz tried to save Earth from the Xeelee. For, you see, in the final stages of our glorious Galactic war against the Xeelee, we were driven all the way back to the Solar System . . . What she did was to turn Earth into Old Earth, a jar of slow time stopped up to preserve its children.
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) . Orion. Kindle Edition.]
3) The Photino Birds
Proposal: I think we should rename the page. There are not only Photino Birds but "Ancients" as well.
Restorator's answer:
Photino Birds , or , to be more accurate , dark matter Ancients who are superiors to photino birds that we know from before who live in stars:
['Ah,' Jophiel said, grinning. Enjoying the play of ideas.
'But these tinkering Ancients had rivals as lords of creation, didn't they? Who might not have liked to see such widespread meddling with the light stuff, the baryonic matter ― their own domain.'
'The baryonic lords,' Nicola said, rolling the words around her mouth. 'I like that. The Xeelee. There must have been a first confrontation. Xeelee against dark-matter creatures.'
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) (Kindle Locations 3767-3772). Orion. Kindle Edition.]
[Well, I hope not. We need them, in the end, you see, Jophiel. And they need us. The photino birds ― fish, whatever ― and their transgalactic parents that you called Ancients.
Baxter, Stephen. Xeelee: Redemption (Xeelee 8) (Kindle Locations 7934-7935). Orion. Kindle Edition.]
(There is now distinction between these two. Most likely these birds are compared to Ancients as lesser baryonic species to Xeelee)
Are indeed winning war against the Xeelee but this wasnt one sided won. We know for sure that when this war only started Ancients had significant adantage in form of many times superior resources due dark matter significantly overweight baryonic matter in cosmos. Then , when war stepped into CTC era and both sides get literally infinite resource bases Ancients just continue to keep their domination in every possible timeline from beginning. But this was an eternal war in all possible configurations where Xeelee standed enough for achieve their plans in form of clearing galaxies from dark matter for allow baryonic species to evolve and then give them booths for evacuation into created and engeneered for them new perfect uni/multiverses. Only after that they start their own migration in configuration. Also we know for sure that Ancients tried to destroy Ring faster for preventing Xeelee return....
But this was a war in their home multiverse where Ancients had basic adantage in all possible altarnative realities from beginning and just keeping it for always have the upper hand. I would be not so sure that if for example Ancients will attack some multiverse that Xeelee prepared for war firstly. Lets take multiverse that they created for Ghosts and instead making it as perfect home for their younger baryonic brothers made it into fortress cosmos which would be shaped by antiXeelee for defence from incursion. Honestly I dont think that Ancients will be able to gain advantage in such a situation. Of course they can grant that war will be eternal but at least in my opinion situation will be reversed from original with Xeelee have always an upper hand.
- 1,484
- 169
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence is definitely not that strong. Monads > > > The Xeelee > The Transcendence.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction.
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence is definitely not that strong. Monads > > > The Xeelee > The Transcendence.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction.
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Why? The 1st purpose of the revision was to downgrade them to High 2-A which seems reasonable. Otherwise, dimensional tiering doesn't work there because 3 main dimensions in Xeeleeverse are more "solid" than other 7 despite they are "higher".
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Bump.
There is some wrong info in the profiles:
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence would never be so powerful.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction, the Ancients are parents of the Birds.
There is some wrong info in the profiles:
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence would never be so powerful.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction, the Ancients are parents of the Birds.
- 1,484
- 169
Bump
- 1,484
- 169
NoFanofRPGs said:
- 1,484
- 169
1) Monads
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not. I think we need to add a note about it.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence would not be stronger than the Xeelee.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction, the Ancients are parents of the Birds.
All important quotes are here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3565695#65
"Unknow (The Monads while sleeping are vulnerable to being killed by lower dimensioned beings within Configuration Space)"
It is debatable whether Monads are killable or not. I think we need to add a note about it.
2) The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence)
"It's hinted that at full potential it may have been able to have beaten the Xeelee and/or utilize the Ring to connect with other universes with humans and thus be comparable to the Monads"
It is wrong. The Transcendence would not be stronger than the Xeelee.
3) The Photino Birds
I think we need to rename this page to "The Ancients and The Photino Birds". They are one faction, the Ancients are parents of the Birds.
All important quotes are here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3565695#65
