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Wolverine downgrade

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Ehnkr2beboh

Ehnkr2beboh

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Solar System Level Wolverine is silly. I know most users disagree with this rating anyways. He can be anywhere from 8-C to 8-B imo. I didn't really want to make this thread but I realized seeing how much I disagree with this I might as well make a thread. For the reasons he's at Solar System Level, vs Thor is usually seen as PIS, Hulk was a bit off guard and Wolverine got stomped anyways, and as for against Thanos, wasn't this when Thanos was trying to impress Death by suppressing himself? I'm not 100% sure what tier he should be in, but 4-B isn't it.
 
Hulk will be downgraded to have a Variable tier some day, so Wol harming him doesn't do much.

That said, can you point out some instances where he fails to cut stuff with lesser durability than 4-B? Otherwise there isn't much of a reason for the downgrade to apply, only his claws are on that level, so him getting stomped by Thor and Hulk while still harming the latter 2 is not necessarily an outlier. Also Thanos was trying to impress Death but he put his stats at normal, not lower than that.
 
He did pierce right through Namor, and drew blood from Spiderman (seems like they just slashed his check instead of being aimed to pierce the skull), so I'm not sure how those are anti-feats for his claws
 
Didn't realize Namor was possibly Solar System Level on here and as I said earlier Wolverine either misses or hits at an awkward angle so it's pretty hard to find feats at all for his claws that aren't him beating pretty weak characters.

And as I said I mainly made this for discussion.
 
It doesn't really matter what tier Namor is if Wolvie just pierced right through him. You'd need some examples of him failing to cut people for those 4-B feats be accepted as outliers.
 
Wolverine's Claws are durability-negating to a 4-B extent, they aren't 4-B themselves. The overall effect in battle is the same but the reasoning behind it is grossly different and thus the profile must reflect that.
 
Namor being possibly Solar System level will likely be removed in the future with Hulk being updated.

Ehnkr2beboh said:
Here's 2 I could find right now: https://i.imgur.com/CPNvJKp.jpg?1 and https://i.imgur.com/0QnjkX7g.jpg

Wolverine (with his claws) usually either miss, hit awkwardly, are against characters with healing factors and most of his kills are against athlete level - below street level characters. I mainly made this for discussion since I know a lot of users disagree with this, so I gave it a clickbaity name.
Click to expand...
He harms both characters there. Spider-Man got little damage due to being far away from Wol's arm, not more durability.

Missing to hit someone is not an anti-feat, "hit awkwardly" is only an anti-feat if he fails to perforate the target. Most of his targets being weaker doesn't matter as he still harms them all. Others disagreeing with his claws being 4-B is something to be said once.

@Matt Ant said the same but that doesn't really make sense if durability-negating goes literally.
 
His claws should be high 8-C at best, is clear that, on average, his claws can make a real damage against 8 tiers characters, but anything more is an outlier. Using as metod "he can cut through a character with 4-B durability, means his claws can damaging any 4-B character and then being 4-B per se" is just a bad logic. We should say that, despite a character can have 4-B durability, most of the time blunt force, it doesn't mean he/she have the same durability against piercing/cutting attacks. A top 8 tier like Spider-Man, for example, got a great blunt force durability, but he's just human against cutting attacks (and bullets).
 
>"Using as metod "he can cut through a character with 4-B durability, means his claws can damaging any 4-B character and then being 4-B per se" is just a bad logic."

This is where the argument starts and is wrong. Harming 4-B characters is 4-B, yes. Saying that High 8-C "piercing/cutting attacks" can harm 4-B characters is nonsense, piercing & cutting is just more force into a tiny part of something, it's not going to be 4-B at all if done from a High 8-C source.

Spider-Man gets harmed by bullets because

  • "He always has so he most be" logic from writers
  • Downplay on the character from writers
  • Exaggeration on the bullets' power from writers
So in all his years of comics Spider-Man never survived piercing or cutting attacks from foes on his same level? I don't think so.
 
Any fiction character survived from several wounds, it just how the plot works, but Spider-Man is clearly weak like a normal human against blades and bullets, if you shot Peter to the head or slice deeply his throat, he's dead.

It's clear that Logan can't generate enough force to damaging a 4-B character, because:

1. Or he's powerful enough to generate so much power to cut a 4-B character

2. Or, despite the tier, several guys, even if they're 4-B, they're weak against cutting attacks

Logan is nowhere strong enough to damaging a 4-B character, the claws do the work for him, but that can happen just if the skin of the enemy he's fighting, is weak enough against a blade. Probably adamantium help to do it, because is sharp and can't be broken, but it's a bad logic, his claws can cut enough just if the material allow him to do it. The daming he can make are still limited to his natural strength, he can't generate power, he just cut through something that is susceptible to the cut himself.
 
I'm gonna unfollow this thread, by the logic of the piercing or cutting attacks being that OP everyone in Marvel should be using their fingers as swords and never be punching people they want to kill.
 
Well the gap between low Solar System and High Solar System is billions of times, so it's not like 4-B dura negation would let him hurt every SS level character.
 
I mean, Adamantium survived getting hit by Thor and Hulk, both of whom are way above Silver Surfer, who is 330 kiloFOE, while Superman is like, 616 kiloFOE, and Ultron's body is made of adamantium and he's rekt Sentry before, who is 1 megaFOE (twice that of Supes's AP) so y'all can figure it out
 
Yeah but Thor and Hulk fighting the previous models of Ultron which were made of adamantium still stand.
 
Also we already rate weapons as usually being a higher tier than those wielding it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Wolverine's Claws are durability-negating to a 4-B extent, they aren't 4-B themselves. The overall effect in battle is the same but the reasoning behind it is grossly different and thus the profile must reflect that.
Click to expand...
Agreed. He consistently harms 4-B level beings.
 
Is somebody experienced willing to handle it?
 
One more off-topic question: Isn't Wolvie supposed to have a Phoenix Force key?
 
Also Logan can heat up his claws to be orange/white hot. What ability would that fall under
 
Phoenix Force Wolverine is from another timeline. Limited Heat Manipulation is fine though.

Anyway, is somebody willing to help with what I mentioned earlier?
 
Was talking about canon Wolvie getting Phoenix Force, he got it alongside the other X-Men including Cyclops as well
 
I do not think that he was a part of the Phoenix Five.
 
NVM he wasn't, but he did get a fraction of it in some storyline where he gets shot by a weird bullet.
 
That's not enough for a separate statistics key though.
 
Thank you. It is probably best if you do so in both the attack potency, tier, and striking strength sections.
 
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