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Why is Masadaverse's characters High Outerverse level now ?

Why there are so many High 1-A non-Hadou/Gudou characters in Dies Irae and Kajiri Kamui Kagura ? I understand why the Hadou/Gudou gods are,since as far as I understand,it is necessary two Hadou gods to clash to open a Singularity and reach the Throne, but I don't get why the members of the LDO members, the legionnaire ( I think they are the demons of the eastern lands) and most of Kajimi Kamui Kagura (especially the members Eastern expedition) are High 1-A and why does these caracters see the Throne as "nothing more than a tool", but even still the Throne is extremely importantly to the story, and have 1 Taikyoku is more than enough to transcend the throne and creation, since as far as I understand (that the Throne is also High 1-A), I don't get it why the High-1 caracters that transcend the singularity are so above the Throne ?
 
check the description and reasoning why they have high 1-A on LDOs. Eastern expeditions are high 1-A after they reached godhood and activating taikyoku, prior to that yakou madara is 1-A+ due to his connection to the singularity and capable of sinking his existence within hajun's singularity. Idk about the "Throne is nothing more than a tool" statement or its credibility, but all i know is that without taikyoku the throne wouldnt exist (assuming we talking about the outer layer not the inner of the throne). they are so much above the throne due to the taiji scaling as lesser taiji is as explain above to be incapable of reaching the throne god unless u have the same or greater taiji value.
 
The Eastern Expedition are High 1-A because at one point they do get Taikyoku, which is what makes the Hadou Gods High 1-A in the first place. The others are High 1-A as well because they are Hadou Cells, so basically they are part of the Hadou God (the LDO for Reinhard and the people Ren turns into his own legionnaries). And since they are part of the Hadou God, they are boosted to his level (think sorta like a main account in a MMO that is level 100, and a bunch of side accounts connected to the main one that become 100 due to being connected to the main one. Is not exactly like this, but I think the analogy makes enough sense).

Also, they are above the Throne simply because even 1 Taikyoku is enough to control it, making them High 1-A. And the more Taikyoku, the stronger you are. And since everyone in the story has way more than 1, they are above the Throne.
 
After he took the Throne he was weakened by the infinite souls grasping onto him, at some point he then started supplying power to Habaki so he could take care of the trash (Yato) and the Tumor eventually abandoned Hajun and started boosting Habaki instead (Habaki is the Tumor's Sensory), Habaki gained Immeasurable Taiji as a result of the power from Hajun and the Tumor.

Put simply Hajun became massively weakened while Habaki rose to Peak Hajun levels of power and was defeated.
 
PsychoWarper said:
After he took the Throne he was weakened by the infinite souls grasping onto him, at some point he then started supplying power to Habaki so he could take care of the trash (Yato) and the Tumor eventually abandoned Hajun and started boosting Habaki instead (Habaki is the Tumor's Sensory), Habaki gained Immeasurable Taiji as a result of the power from Hajun and the Tumor.

Put simply Hajun became massively weakened while Habaki rose to Peak Hajun levels of power and was defeated.
Click to expand...
It's not like that.

But at this point, the question is so repeated that **** answering it again
 
I read some of the profiles of the Eastern Expedition and I realize that many of the Dies Irae Characters reincarnated in Kajiri Kamui Kagura,and I have a question: Does Reinhardt also reincarnated in Kajiri Kamui Kagura ?
 
Sua feiura matou Alex said:
I read some of the profiles of the Eastern Expedition and I realize that many of the Dies Irae Characters reincarnated in Kajiri Kamui Kagura,and I have a question: Does Reinhardt also reincarnated in Kajiri Kamui Kagura ?
Click to expand...
He has been completely erased, so much so that he must not remember hajun in pantheon, precisely because the memories of the throne end when they are killed by hajun, and ren is expelled by hajun.
 
Oh ok, I guess I don´t have any more important questions for now. Thanks guys, this help me a lot ! I think that it just wait for the revision in Masadaverse/Shinza Banshou Explanation page for now.
 
Hey, it's been a while now, and I have deep even further in Shinza Bansho series, and I was thinking. How powerful are Hadou/Gudou gods (Satanael,Muzan,Ren,Hajun, The Eastern Expedition,etc) in relation to the Throne ?
 
The throne was once destroyed in the rea route if i remember correctly, and i don't remember where it was mentioned, but the throne is just a tool for Hadou gods.

I believe that every hadou and gudou god with their battles, they can destroy the throne, i cannot say if there is a need for taikyoku numbers for this.
 
So the Throne is nothing but a tool to the Hadou/Gudou Gods, being practically infinite levels of power above the Throne (according to the Taikyoku sistem level), yet they need the Throne to impose their will through creation ? Even Hajun who is Immensely above any other caracter in the verse and actually wants to destroy creation ?
 
>yet they need the Throne to impose their will through creation ?

It's because of their spiritual mass and how it can destroy all of creation, with the throne they can impose their laws without destroying everything.

>? Even Hajun who is Immensely above any other caracter in the verse and actually wants to destroy creation ?

Because he was busy cleaning his body of all the infinite souls clinging to his body, that's also part of the reason that he didn't blink Yato out of existence
 
The throne focuses on the power of the god hadou that is dominant in him, when a new era begins, creation is formed with a different supreme law, as was case with the first three gods of the throne and with marie, where their laws influenced and show how the supreme law has a strong influence on creation, same can be said of the hajun era, that outside KKK events world was in complete chaos. Mercurius isn't so remarkable because i believe that the greatest effect of his supreme law on people and society was deja vu.

Edit: As Tony quoted, in a more summarized form, without the throne, the hadou gods would encompass all existing creation with his law, and neutralize all others, the throne balances it so that its focus is not to dominate, but to create and balance.
 
Archaron said:
. Mercurius isn't so remarkable because i believe that the greatest effect of his supreme law on people and society was deja vu.
Click to expand...
>Besides the whole "Era of the Gods" and the deja vu thing, there is the creation of the multiverse, multitime, and the rework of the Throne system.
 
Correct, the Throne allows them to control and focus their power. Think like a pipe system controlling the flow of water, without the pipes it would flow out and cover everything around it. But with the pipes you could control where it flows, and how forcibly it flows.

This is the Throne, without it all things would be overwritten by their Law, and they would basically "crush" and take in all things. Where All of Creation becomes them, and they become All of Creation.

It is somewhat similar to the Tzitzum or Contractions that limit the Emmanation of Atzmus, so that the essence of YHWH wouldn't completely encompass and erase everything through its pure, transcendent power. In a way, the Hadou God is the Atzmus, but the Throne allows it to contract and reveal itself as one more similar to Ein Sof.
 
Also I highly doubt that Naraka would be 0. I do believe they are a higher level of High 1-A. I don't think that Masadaverse can be 0. Though whatever made the Origin Coordinante might be beyond Hadou Gods. As I said might , we don't have enough to go on.
 
@tony

That's right, i forgot about these factors, mercurius world does not address these factors as much as it does with deja vu (which appears in every moment of the game/novel).
 
Well,I have a question. I read recently that KKK is more of an "what if" scenario and that Rea's route is the true ending where Hajun is defeated. Is that true ? If so, then how this applies to Pantheon ?
 
Pantheon happens after KKK, which occurs after the Marie Route.

If I remember correctly in Rea Route (one of the two endings) Hajun slays Ren, Marie, and Reinhard, though is slain by Mercurius. Thus Snek takes the Throne and resets the World, taking steps to prevent the rise of Hajun, as in he stops Marie from taking the Throne.

Thus Marie Route is the true route. As it is what leads ultimately to KKK and Pantheon.
 
>If I remember correctly in Rea Route (one of the two endings) Hajun slays Ren, Marie, and Reinhard, though is slain by Mercurius.

It's Marie route, she ascends, Hajun is born, he attacks, Marie's power survives, that leads to the Three Colors fighting at full power, Rein notices the tumor, Marie reincarnates it, Hajun loses power and everyone fights on a more equal level, in the end Hajun dies with Ren, Rein, Marie with only Snek left at death doors but manages to take the throne and everything goes to Rea Route.
 
No, in Rea route the reset happens regardless of the ending as Snek dies in both of them.

Basically:

Snek rests > Rea route

Snek dies > KKk > Pantheon
 
As for how above the gods are above the throne? If we want to get accurate power scaling, the throne (outside layer or whatever) wouldnt exist without taikyoku, hence anyone who has taikyoku manipulates creation can effectively destroy it. Even if ee hypothetically say a god who has taiji count of 1.
 
But either way KKK is not a what-if, it is canon, alongside Pantheon. Rea's Route is more akin to a What-If. With Omnia Vincit Amor following it.
 
Hajun only appears in KKK and Pantheon, Anima Entelechia is the FIfth Heaven, the one ruled over by Marie.

It is a World of Embrace that allows Hadou Gods to live in unison without canabalizing eachother with their Laws. Hadou Gods by definition cannot coexist without clashing and tearing apart reality, though Marie allows this axiom to be bypassed.

It is much like our world, like Omega Ewigkeit before it.
 
Each Heaven has a name:

1st Heaven = Ahura Mazda

2nd Heaven = Paradise Lost

3rd Heaven = Zoar

4th Heaven = Omega Ewigkeit

5th Heaven = Anima Entelechia

6th Heaven = Mahamara

7th Heaven = Amaterasu
 
Hey again. I have been searching for info about Masadaverse (especially about KKK), and there is something kinda weird. If Amaterasu is the Reincarnation of the Tumor (which have an value of Taikyoku said to be immensurable), Why does She have only 80 now ? And I have read that in Pantheon, Marie is the new strongest Hadou God, with 100 Taikyoku Value. Is that True ? Also, is there any forum besides the Explanation page where I can find more info about the Lore ?
 
Hi folks ! ,So I read a a time ago about Tenma Yato's law in KKK in a Youtube video and on his Profile in this wiki where he says "Even if I have to turn this world into hell, I will defeat you!", and that makes me wonder: If Even Ren Fuji/Tenma Yato recognizes that Defeat Hajun by sheer force alone is Impossble, then how does he plan to defeat Hajun in KKK ? Well, Turns out that in The Throne's profile in Shinza Bansho Wiki, it's stated that he plans to open a Singularity between the Eastern Expedition's Country, and the Remains of Tasogare's Heaven, so he could absorb the infinite amount of souls that Hajun Trashed out (after he takes The Throne) and maybe stand a chance against Him and emanating his previous law of "I want this moment to endure forever"(which he previously despised), but that wasn't succeeded given to his defeat at the hands of Habaki (I read all of this on Shinza Bansho Wiki, so I'm not so sure about the canonicity of all of this,no offense). But that makes me wonder: if he managed to defeat Habaki, to open a singularity, and to absorb the Infinite amount of souls that Hajun Trashed out, could He Have the enough amount of power to stand a chance against Hajun ? What do you guys think ?
 
Taiji value is related to the strength of one's desire so if absorbing infinite souls means infinite desire I guess I could almost buy it.

But then again Merc had an infinite multiverse and I think that means the souls of everyone within it were his, and he wasn't on Hajun's level so maybe not.
 
Well, recently i'm having some really weird dreams these days, and one of then was that I was playing RDR2, and it was everything normal, except for one thing. Every time the main caracters were going to refer to themselves, they didt'n use "Van Der Line gang" or something like that, but instead they say that they are the "Longinus Dreizen Order". And every time they spoke that, I was like "wait, something is wrong"

Well, not that relevant,but I fell like I needed to share this with someone :/
 
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