Why is Mai's Bullet Rubber?

[Nullflowerblush]

with Mai even reloading her gun when Maki shows up (despite only firing one road, implying she was reloading to change out the rubber bullets for a different kind)

At the beginning of the Goodwill Event, she fired at Yuji three times, meaning, by the time Maki appeared, she only had two bullets chambered. Even ignoring that,—or, insisting that she reloaded between the two chapters,—the number of bullets she had chambered after shooting Nobara is unknown.

alongside the fact that whenever she uses her guns later in the series it's references that she's using "conventional weaponry"

1. Winchester Model 70, a bolt action hunting rifle.
2. Geto (Kenjaku) is a Special Grade sorcerer and the worst curse user in history.

Moreover, the bullet Mai created and which Maki caught is explicitly a real bullet.

A rubber bullet is real.
And the bullets look less like .44 Magnum bullets and more like rubber bullets; in the anime, they are even black, like rubber bullets.

We know this because rubber bullets aren't potent enough to even leave a mark or breach the skin of an off-guard Nobara and yet was able to leave a considerable injury to Maki's hand, which Maki even comments on in the same panel. This wouldn't make any sense given Nobara trained with Maki and considers her an absolute powerhouse who can carry the entire team.

The difference between the two is: Nobara can control her Cursed Energy and use Cursed Energy Reinforcement, whereas Maki cannot; even Haba is bulletproof.

 

[Rosa]

At the beginning of the Goodwill Event, she fired at Yuji three times, meaning, by the time Maki appeared, she only had two bullets chambered. Even ignoring that,—or, insisting that she reloaded between the two chapters,—the number of bullets she had chambered after shooting Nobara is unknown.

As demonstrated by earlier points, she'd be firing at Yuji with lethal intent. So either Mai is completely stupid and unable to fight smart, or they're different sets of bullets. Even if I were to grant the former interpretation, why would she reload with 2 rounds in the chamber? This is also ignoring the purpose the argument here being that we cannot use the fact that the bullet used on Nobara was a rubber one given she reloads.

Winchester Model 70, a bolt action hunting rifle.
Geto (Kenjaku) is a Special Grade sorcerer and the worst curse user in history.

How does either of these two points contradict what I said about her using conventional weaponry?

A rubber bullet is real.

Clearly by "real bullet" I'm referring to non-rubber bullets...

And the bullets look less like .44 Magnum bullets and more like rubber bullets

I don't see how you could possibly claim that given the bullet is draw like small, blurred dots to demonstrate their high speed.

The difference between the two is: Nobara can control her Cursed Energy and use Cursed Energy Reinforcement, whereas Maki cannot; even Haba is bulletproof.

Just because Nobara can control her CE to enhance herself doesn't mean Maki is weaker than her given Maki's body is benefitted from heavenly restriction. Current Maki and Toji very clearly wouldn't lose against Nobara, so this line of reasoning is flawed given I already gave reasoning for GWE Maki being above GWE Nobara.

 

[Rosa]

Aside from any derailing, the point about "Mai reloads, so it implies she loads in real bullets" is just a non-sequitur. Mai reloads to have the 6 bullets in there so Maki counts the 6 shots, and then gets caught offguard by the 7th. There's no evidence it's Mai reloading with more lethal bullets.

My entire point for this was that we can't use the fact she used rubber bullets on Nobara to suggest she's using the same type on Maki, me deriving an implication that she changed into real bullets comes from the surrounding contextual evidence I pointed out. Nice strawman tho...

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

My entire point for this was that we can't use the fact she used rubber bullets on Nobara to suggest she's using the same type on Maki, me

We can because she wouldn’t be carrying around real bullets, and what she was given and allowed to use was rubber

deriving an implication that she changed into real bullets comes from the surrounding contextual evidence I pointed out

The surrounding contextual evidence requires you making big leaps in logic, just to arrive at her using real bullets… for some reason. I wonder why this is tryna be argued

Maybe there is a motivation to claim Maki is faster than she actually is? Who knows

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I don't see how you could possibly claim that given the bullet is draw like small, blurred dots to demonstrate their high speed.

The anime still shows they’re rubber bullets, and they would’ve been clued in if it was a crucial detail that Mai would start using real bullets which are way faster, and have to be animated faster

Gege oversees it and he would’ve commented if it was a mistake

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I don't see how you could possibly claim that given the bullet is draw like small, blurred dots to demonstrate their high speed.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I will point out that no one notices that the last bullet is faster at all, or notes that the last bullet is a metal bullet. This is only a special feat with headcanon

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Just because Nobara can control her CE to enhance herself doesn't mean Maki is weaker than her given Maki's body is benefitted from heavenly restriction.

Again, Haba, a transfigured Culling Game player, is impervious against military-grade tasers, grenades, and .50 cal.,—which are utilized by machine guns and anti-materiel rifles,—whereas (at worst) a rubber bullet or (at best) a .44 Magnum round broke Maki's skin; evidently, Cursed Energy Reinforcement,—which Maki lacks,—grants bulletproof skin.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Again, Haba, a transfigured Culling Game player, is impervious against military-grade tasers, grenades, and .50 cal.,—which are utilized by machine guns and anti-materiel rifles,—whereas (at worst) a rubber bullet or (at best) a .44 Magnum round broke Maki's skin; evidently, Cursed Energy Reinforcement,—which Maki lacks,—grants bulletproof skin.

Do you think awakened Maki is not bullet proof? This is the weakest argument so far

Pre-awakened Maki is above like wall level or whatever, I think it’s more like she was burned by the bullet’s heat

Also the bullet from Mai was imbued with cursed energy, so it has superior AP to a normal one

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Pre-awakened Maki is above like wall level or whatever

In fiction, the damage inflicted by bullets typically ignores real world logic, given how being bulletproof is treated as a concept in media; e.g., Luke Cage and Spider-Man are within comparable strength classes,—being Large Building level+ (>6.75 tons) and Large Building level (4.45 tons), respectively,—but being bulletproof is a unique superpower of the former, and the latter can be injured by bullets, despite their attack power only being within the range of Street level.

I think it’s more like she was burned by the bullet’s heat

heat doesn't cause bleeding
her skin was clearly broken

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

This isn’t a good argument because it can just be the case that the tensile strength of the peraon’s skin isn’t good or their skin is particularly susceptible to bullet wounds

 

[Rosa]

We can because she wouldn’t be carrying around real bullets, and what she was given and allowed to use was rubber

You haven't proved that, you've just been stating it and then when asked for proof you say "well it's implied obviously" without any further elaboration.

The surrounding contextual evidence requires you making big leaps in logic, just to arrive at her using real bullets… for some reason. I wonder why this is tryna be argued

what "leaps in logic" have I used?

Maybe there is a motivation to claim Maki is faster than she actually is? Who knows

literally where have I ever claimed this? Stop projecting positions onto me which I'm not defending in an effort to try discredit my actual point, it's incredibly dishonest.

The anime still shows they’re rubber bullets

Where does the anime ever tell us that? And why are we using anime feats for manga continuity?

Again, Haba, a transfigured Culling Game player, is impervious against military-grade tasers, grenades, and .50 cal.,—which are utilized by machine guns and anti-materiel rifles,—whereas (at worst) a rubber bullet or (at best) a .44 Magnum round broke Maki's skin; evidently, Cursed Energy Reinforcement,—which Maki lacks,—grants bulletproof skin.

If Maki is tougher than CE users and CE users are bulletproof, then Maki would also be bulletproof. The only way to counter this is if you think that the ONLY way to be this tough is via CE reinforcement, which is evidently untrue when characters like Toji and awakened Maki exist, with even Shibuya Maki being able to survive blows from a special grade curse spirit (Dagon).

In fiction, the damage inflicted by bullets typically ignores real world logic, given how being bulletproof is treated as a concept in media

I could just use this same logic in my favour also, if we're going to say Maki paradoxically is both strong and weak I could just say she's both fast and slow (fast enough to react to bullets, slow enough to be blitzed by subsonic characters). Obviously accepting interpretations like these aren't useful and just lead to contradictions in our interpretation.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Where does the anime ever tell us that? And why are we using anime feats for manga continuity?

the anime is accepted as secondary canon, so I'm allowed to use it as supporting evidence

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

You haven't proved that, you've just been stating it and then when asked for proof you say "well it's implied obviously" without any further elaboration.

We already showed scans saying she could only use rubber for the goodwill event

what "leaps in logic" have I used?

That she somehow or somewhen switched to real bullets

If Maki is tougher than CE users and CE users are bulletproof, then Maki would also be bulletproof.

Misanalogous and shows proof of someone not knowing material science. Someone can have a higher durability to blunt force damage but a lower durability in terms of tensile strength, when things like bullets may impose too big a tensile force for her skin to sustain

Tensile strength ≠ hardness ≠ toughness

Yet again, you’ll circle back to your argument “but Maki reloaded her gun, and she wants to beat Mai, so it has to be a real bullet!!!!” Ignoring all the counters which you haven’t responded to. As for your motivated reasoning, you’re known to be a person who claims and argues this to argue Maki is a Mach 27 characrer pre awakening and that the speed of sound is higher in JJK or it provides circular scaling

 

[Rosa]

the anime is accepted as secondary canon, so I'm allowed to use it as supporting evidence

So far it's the only verifiable claim you've made, so it's not a very strong position.

We already showed scans saying she could only use rubber for the goodwill event

You haven't, where is that stated?

That she somehow or somewhen switched to real bullets

Saying a person could've changed from rubber bullets to metal bullets after reloading her gun is a "leap in logic"? How?

Misanalogous and shows proof of someone not knowing material science. Someone can have a higher durability to blunt force damage but a lower durability in terms of tensile strength, when things like bullets may impose too big a tensile force for her skin to sustain

This point is completely irrelevant given the onus is on you to argue Nobara has greater "tensile strength" to Maki, which you attempted by using CE reinforcement but now that argument has failed you're attempting to switch the burden of proof by implying I would need to not only prove Maki has better stats (which I did) but additionally that she has specifically better tensile strength. This isn't a good faith engagement lmfao

You’ll circle back to your argument “but Maki reloaded her gun, and she wants to beat Mai, so it has to be a real bullet!!!!”

Never made this argument, I used this fact as a way to discredit people using the rubber bullet used against Nobara but this has never been my only piece of evidence nor have I said the evidence leads us to say it HAS to be a real bullet, only that it's implied to be.

Ignoring all the counters which you haven’t responded to.

Like what?

As for your motivated reasoning, you’re known to be a person who claims and argues this to argue Maki is a Mach 27 characrer pre awakening and that the speed of sound is higher in JJK or it provides circular scaling

Crazy how I haven't made this claim in this thread, and you say I'm "known" as this JJK wanker but this is literally my first JJK thread and all I've done is ask people for narrative arguments to explain away the bullet feat outside of powerscaler arguments revolving around outliers. You've literally derailed my thread completely with these kinds of arguments and now you're trying to attack me for it? Why are you so dishonest? Unironically tempted to just stop responding to you atp.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Idk why we’re arguing like this regardless. Why we’re arguing with a nerfed argument. Maki gets blitzed by Mach 1 later on so we know for a fact it’s not a real bullet, nuff said.

Her bullets in the GWE are never confirmed to be real, and no amount of headcanon can change the fact that maki gets blitzed by Mach 1 and 24 fps movement, so it’s a fake bullet. Nuff said

 

[Rosa]

Idk why we’re arguing like this regardless. Why we’re arguing with a nerfed argument. Maki gets blitzed by Mach 1 later on so we know for a fact it’s not a real bullet, nuff said.

Her bullets in the GWE are never confirmed to be real, and no amount of headcanon can change the fact that maki gets blitzed by Mach 1 and 24 fps movement, so it’s a fake bullet. Nuff said

There's a reason why this isn't a CRT
"If your only counter is "oh but mach 3 statement, Naoya's speed of sound statement" to argue for consistency, then I'm already aware, I'm just asking if there's any contextual or narrative arguments for this being a consistent interpretation of the text outside of an argument rooted in it being an outlier."

 

[Arkenis]

Sorry to ask but what exactly is the purpose/goal for this qna? I feel like you guys have already argued numerous points on this topic and there doesn’t seem to be any change happening for this nor will it be included on Maki’s page anyway. Plus Rosa doesn’t seem like they’ll be changed on this topic.

Just think before it gets anymore repetitive or toxic here you guys should just move on from it.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

"oh but mach 3 statement, Naoya's speed of sound statement"

It’s never been just that:

• Naobito blitzes grade 1 sorcerers using movement that can be animated in 24 fps in a minimalistic manner
• Piercing blood is extremely fast, and it’s extremely scary to people who can consistently blitz Grade 1 sorcerers, and the reason it’s fast is it’s faster than sound. This is the defining trait of piercing blood
• Choso can make other blood-beam attacks which he deems fast enough to attack other people, yet they’re not as fast as piercing blood, meaning they’re slower than sound
• Yuji himself couldn’t reliably dodge piercing blood from 20+ meters away, and had to resort to other tactics to maneuver himself around it

I'm just asking if there's any contextual or narrative arguments for this being a consistent interpretation of the text outside of an argument rooted in it being an outlier."

It’s not just saying it’s an outlier, it’s that we know based upon that additionally that it can never be a real bullet, which further informs our choice on its composition. On top of that, good contextual and narrative arguments were already given

 

[Arkenis]

Choso can make other blood-beam attacks which he deems fast enough to attack other people, yet they’re not as fast as piercing blood, meaning they’re slower than sound

May be the GREATEST argument against any bs scaling above supersonic . Yet people will argue randomness like “Yuji was weak so thats why” or “Pb speed exceeds sos so its mhs!”

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

May be the GREATEST argument against any bs scaling above supersonic . Yet people will argue randomness like “Yuji was weak so thats why” or “Pb speed exceeds sos so its mhs!”

Kenjaku states it directly. When he controls the speed, it’s not as fast as a piercing blood. It’s not even like it’s a binding bow where it’s still supersonic or still piercing blood level but just not as fast as his others… no, it’s just not supersonic

Choso is the definition of a character with subsonic combat speed, and Tengen still chose Choso to defend him. That's right, they chose someone with Subsonic combat speed to save someone on something where the fate of humanity hinged,

 

[Rosa]

Sorry to ask but what exactly is the purpose/goal for this qna?

As said, I made this thread to see if there's any actual narrative resolutions for the bullet being rubber given Gege's clear intent was for it to be a real bullet (hence why he later stated he went overkill with making Maki dodge bullets as it contradicts later speed scaling), and so I was asking if anyone has an explanation for these narrative implications or if we really are just forced to say "outlier GG". It seems we're stuck with the latter.

Rosa doesn’t seem like they’ll be changed on this topic.

wdym by changed? What do you think my position is? Because Guacamole has been slandering my thread as me trying to argue for mach 3 or above GWE Maki but that's literally never been my position on this thread.

Just think before it gets anymore repetitive or toxic here you guys should just move on from it.

I already said to Guacamole I'll stop responding to him since it's only really him turning it toxic by repeatedly lying about me, bringing up past disagreements we've had on discord for small owns or to try discredit me, or by openly derailing the thread to other topics - even doing the same to Stolp when he asked Guacamole to act more civil. I think everyone else on this thread has been productive and good faith.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

given Gege's clear intent was for it to be a real bullet

this is just not true, and you gave 0 proof of this, while there's 30 different contradictions and things going against it.

wdym by changed? What do you think my position is? Because Guacamole has been slandering my thread as me trying to argue for mach 3 or above GWE Maki but that's literally never been my position on this thread.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Thread can be closed, lol

 

[Arkenis]

I think the anime remedies your issue Rosa. Not like it matters much to scaling but it makes sense the anime showed the bullet as a black one to show its rubber. You can really just pick any option you want: either its an outlier or the anime remedied this and shows it as a rubber bullet PLUS Gege’s obvious acknowledgment he was going too far with the feat.