Why doesn't Mewtwo scale to the bird trio?

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just as the title says. His AP scales. Why doesn't his speed?

Can the Legendary Birds...

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yes, this should be reasonable.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I thought that he already did, to be honest.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I thought that he already did, to be honest.

Same. I agree that scaling his speed seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this seems to make sense.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I thought he already did too.. he definitely should though.

 

[Lina_Shields]

So base Mewtwo should have MHS speed as well as Small Island level AP? Perhaps those stats should be checked too see if they are correct.

 

[LordAizenSama]

zapdos has a speed calc on it's page but the link is broken.

 

[Kavpeny]

Mostly because there are no instances of him interacting with the birds. If there are no contradictions, I do believe he should be comparable at the very least.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

No time like the present.

Pros: Mewtwo was depicted as being created to be "the strongest Pokemon" in its initial release and though many still mistakenly believe it is even now, I think we can assume that's the case in its first incarnation, which would logically make it superior to the Legendary birds.

Cons: Pokemon inconsistencies aren't limited to the anime and manga, but the games as well, such as Kyurem being referred to as the strongest dragon, despite the fact that Pokemon who govern the fundamental laws of the Universe are also dragons. This throws whether or not we can take such statements made of Mewtwo's power as appropriate evidence.

Pros: Mewtwo has defeated a Legendary bird, Articuno, before. In one blow even, in Pokemon origins.

Cons: While this should surely count as evidence for Mewtwo's superiority, Articuno was already captured in a Pokeball. In generation 4 it was implied that using a Pokeball would restrict the power of Legendary Pokemon, hence why Cyrus used the red chains instead of just straight up capturing them.

Point is, Articuno may have been weaker than it would have been in the wild.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Alternatively we can always use this which places him at Mountain level.

 

[LordAizenSama]

You touched on it, but it's a bit more than just "depicted", the scientists who created mewtwo said they succeeded in creating the most powerful pokemon. Considering they are aware of the exist of mew I highly doubt they are unaware of the Bird trio

 

[Kavpeny]

It is also highly unlikely that they've never heard of the Dragon trio. The problem, as far as I can see, is that no definitive speed feat for Mewtwo exists. Being "the most powerful" does not equate explicitly to "being the fastest".

Simply being superior in one stat does not imply statistical superiority everywhere. Can somebody fix the speed link on Articuno's page?

I want to see the calc method. If it's movement speed, we must consider the possibility that a bird with the capability of flight has faster movement speed than Mewtwo. If combat speed, then we can scale Mewtwo, as "Likely MHS" (should scale to the birds) instead of MHS.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, it is likely that they never heard of the dragon trio. They believe that there's only 150(151) Pokemon at the time

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

No, I was only using the Dragon trio as an example that such statements likely shouldn't be taken at face value, hence the reference to the Creation Trio. I know they weren't discovered at the time.

I'm currently searching for the speed link, if it even exists anymore as Kaiser's blog doesn't seem to have it. This is a mess...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So if you or anyone can find it, does everyone agree to the scaling?

 

[Kavpeny]

My point Cad, is that the statement about Mewtwo being the "most powerful" was ret-conned later, which is proof that the scientists were not aware of the extent of the power of legendary Pokemon.

We cannot automatically assume that they knew the entirety of all Kanto legendary Pokemon either, hence, the speed-scaling (if the calc has combat speed, not movement speed) should be done with a "Likely", because there's no definitive proof of higher or equivalent speed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I get it. And as usual, what you're saying makes perfect sense. The thing is, the birds were never said to be the most powerful, unlike Mewtwo. And I see scientists who know about reviving long dead Fossils and Pokémon incomprehensible to the human eye would be capable of knowing the power of a Pokemon that has been revered. Heck, Zapdos is in an easily accessible area...

Regardless, you made a good point about not knowing their full power. That's very possible. I agree to likely. And Mewtwo can fly too if the calc turns out to be movement.

By retconned, do you mean with the existence of stronger Legendaries later down the line?

 

[Kavpeny]

Well, Mewtwo is capable of telekinesis, not pure flight, but you're right. Regardless, power should not scale directly to movement (if it is movement). If it is combat, I agree with the scaling along with a "Likely".

Yes.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Found it. I'll fix the links now.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, it doesn't scale then?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

No, unfortunately not.