• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

What happened to 7-A My Hero Academia?

TheRustyOne said:
All Might's storm is too vague to calc (Though this was also 100%). There has been almost half a dozen different All Might calcs for that storm, it was eventually decided to just use the standard storm calc in order to avoid any more problems.
Click to expand...
It's not too vague to calculate. You can clearly tell how All Might gathered the clouds around a center point and moved them. The horizon distance should also be set to 20 kilometers given how that's the average, (I think.) Really, the methods of the calculation were discarded for absolutely no good reason whatsoever.
 
Basically what Rusty said
It got recalced to over 200 Gigatons for Deku and Bakugo individually which is thousands of times greater than the Low 7-B+/7-B Feats in the series which comparable characters struggled or put in effort to do.

Unless we get more High 6-C out of my hero academia it’s a blatant outlier.
 
With how much all the storm calcs have varied, I really wish we get calculable AP feats that aren't about generating storms for a change.
The closest we had was Machia's but it made sense that it was done over time.
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
United States of Smash... What assumes it's only 8-A?
Click to expand...
I was told beforehand that it only gives 8-A results, and my own check of it also gave 8-A results. The clash between All Might AFO created a bigger shockwave than the United States of Smash, but is still 8-A+ and has to be cut in half since it's two people clashing.

@Earthyboy I'm not knowledgeable about All Might's storm or storms in general so I could be wrong about that. But we once had a calc group thread about it and the results were accepted. Only for it to be rejected later on, some people are just tired of the back and fourth.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I was told beforehand that it only gives 8-A results, and my own check of it also gave 8-A results. The clash between All Might AFO created a bigger shockwave than the United States of Smash, but is still 8-A+ and has to be cut in half since it's two people clashing.

@Earthyboy I'm not knowledgeable about All Might's storm or storms in general so I could be wrong about that. But we once had a calc group thread about it and the results were accepted. Only for it to be rejected later on, some people are just tired of the back and fourth.
Click to expand...
Classic AoE fallacy. Goku's kamehamehas often made simple craters. Guess Goku's not universal
 
I don't see how it's an AOE fallacy tho, the feat itself merely gave 8-A results, but it doesn't mean it's only 8-A?
 
It is different. Superman is much more consistency for Tier 4 feats. The God-Tiers in Boku no Hero have difficulties with 2 Low 7-B feats but then create a High 6-C feat

2 > 1

It is not consistent. But well, I never studied the verse
 
TheRustyOne said:
I was told beforehand that it only gives 8-A results, and my own check of it also gave 8-A results. The clash between All Might AFO created a bigger shockwave than the United States of Smash, but is still 8-A+ and has to be cut in half since it's two people clashing.

@Earthyboy I'm not knowledgeable about All Might's storm or storms in general so I could be wrong about that. But we once had a calc group thread about it and the results were accepted. Only for it to be rejected later on, some people are just tired of the back and fourth.
Click to expand...
So, just because people are tired of it is back and forth we reject it? Logically, you can tell that the feat is done through kinetic energy/force, due to how the eye of the storm is represented in the anime. It's pretty clear the clouds were at least spinning in some manner. We even see that the cyclone he created is spinning itself, which implies that the cyclone managed to move the clouds in some way.
 
No, it was rejected and now people are too tired to redo it again.

Like I said it's been calc almost half a dozen times.

Also your talking about the anime version of the feat, such a scene isn't in the manga. And using the anime gets complicated, as that's been both accepted and rejected I believe.

Note: It's not like no one is aloud to calc it again, though it'll need another calc group thread in order for it to be accepted.
 
Here's the issue with anyone wanting to scale MHA any higher than 7-B at best, and even that i'm sure people want downgraded to 7-C at this point:

Endeavor takes hits from AFO Shiggy who can survive Deku's 100% hits, which is this verse's god tier. That contradicts Endeavor being inferior to All Might, and creates a scaling chain of people that also scale to it since Hood and the other High Ends are comparable and can hurt Endeavor.

The only possible way to clear up this issue is by having Full Cowl 100% be separate from a punch at 100%, but that is unfortunately an unfounded belief, though given how some of the revisions are going, arguments contrary to that might arise.

There's also the vocal part of the people on this site that believe movies should be claimed as non canon, regardless of any statements, cameos or evidence to suggest they are canon, because of the generally better feats that appear in them. So that's another point of contention for high tier scaling.

Essentially, unless Deku blows up an island on screen in the manga, or someone says FC 100% is stronger than normal 100%, we're going to be stuck in an endless state of "what feats do we want to use and what feats do we want to ignore."
 
TheRustyOne said:
No, it was rejected and now people are too tired to redo it again.
Click to expand...
So, why would this be a good reason to ignore all the reasons why the feat is done through kinetic energy? This wouldn't disprove my argument, people are just too lazy to calculate it again.
Also your talking about the anime version of the feat, such a scene isn't in the manga. And using the anime gets complicated, as that's been both accepted and rejected I believe.
Click to expand...
Using the anime is fine if it's not contradicted in the manga. It's been several times on the wiki, so this would be hypocrisy.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Here's the issue with anyone wanting to scale MHA any higher than 7-B at best, and even that i'm sure people want downgraded to 7-C at this point:

Endeavor takes hits from AFO Shiggy who can survive Deku's 100% hits, which is this verse's god tier. That contradicts Endeavor being inferior to All Might, and creates a scaling chain of people that also scale to it since Hood and the other High Ends are comparable and can hurt Endeavor.
Click to expand...
Here's the problem. Hood isn't 7-C just because he's high-end, he's 7-C because he has an overpowered muscle augmentation quirk. Other high-ends aren't shown to have that. Like, sure. All of the Nomu's have some sort of augmented strength, but that augmented strength is usually only portrayed as High 8-C. Examples like Hood or the USJ Nomu are far higher. And there isn't really an instance where a High-End hurts Endeavor unless their actually piercing him with a sharp object.

And then Endeavor is shown to easily be fended off by a casual All For One and gets manhandled by Shigaraki. He only stood a chance because of his quirk, combat experience, and the fact that Shigaraki's quirks clearly aren't relative to his ap. (Most of the time.) So, that would kind of contradict a lot of the scaling for 7-B Endeavor.

And the scaling chain would presume even if you count 7-B feats. What, are people going to try to downgrade MHA to 7-C? There are barely any 7-C feats to go off from and there are numerous 7-B ones. You do the math to find which is the most consistent out of all. We rate feats on this site based on consistency, NOT because of personal preference.
Kingofwolves999 said:
here's also the vocal part of the people on this site that believe movies should be claimed as non canon, regardless of any statements, cameos or evidence to suggest they are canon, because of the generally better feats that appear in them. So that's another point of contention for high tier scaling.
Click to expand...
And we should accept their arguments? There's god knows how many statements at this point of Horikoshi confirming the canon of the movies. Their arguments should be irrelevant by now. There's even an entire blog Rusty made with several statements confirming the movie's canon.

It gets to the point where we're are ignoring facts, logic, statements, (even the most obvious of obvious feats at this point) in favor of just headcanon. That is fallacious. No questions asked.
 
I mean, I agree with the points you’re making Earthy, but we’re gonna have to get to them when revisions get to them. I’m just explaining why high tier scaling has hit issues as of now.

Maybe it’ll get fixed, maybe it’ll get worse. Idk.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
I mean, I agree with the points you’re making Earthy, but we’re gonna have to get to them when revisions get to them. I’m just explaining why high tier scaling has hit issues as of now.

Maybe it’ll get fixed, maybe it’ll get worse. Idk.
Click to expand...
With all the stuff I and a few others have planned, this will surely take a while. So I understand.
 
TheRustyOne said:
To my knowledge there is no accepted 7-A calc as of now, Nine's Storm was recalced at being High 6-C which was deemed an outlier. As characters like All Might struggle to perform Tier 7 feats (Two Heroes), and All Might's storm is too vague to calc (Though this was also 100%). There has been almost half a dozen different All Might calcs for that storm, it was eventually decided to just use the standard storm calc in order to avoid any more problems.

It's possible for higher tier to be accepted, if the storm gets a calc group accepted tier that's higher than Low 7-B, or if a new feat happens in universe.

All Might did use to be both 7-A and 6-C via the 60x multiplier, which isn't accepted anymore.

The problem is that characters like Endeavor are downscaling to All Might level thanks to Shigaraki. Which means the God Tiers ranks needs to be watched with more scrutiny as more people are begin to scale to them.
Click to expand...
The dispersal was High 6-C, which, you can dismiss as an outlier, sure, but Nine condensing/creating the actual storm should honestly be pretty fair game. Eyeballing it, seems about City+ to Large City level. Unless those cloud calc revisions pass through or whatever at least
 
Phantom_Falcon said:
The dispersal was High 6-C, which, you can dismiss as an outlier, sure, but Nine condensing/creating the actual storm should honestly be pretty fair game. Eyeballing it, seems about City+ to Large City level. Unless those cloud calc revisions pass through or whatever at least
Click to expand...
I'll see if I can calculate the storm itself later on then. Nine likely scales to the storm I think.
 
Earthyboy said:
I'll see if I can calculate the storm itself later on then. Nine likely scales to the storm I think.
Click to expand...
I don’t think Nine scales to the storm it’s a separate statistic completely for him I’m quite sure.

Deku and Bakugo do scale since they could destroy it tho then Nine indirectly scales off surviving hits from them.
 
I mean, regardless of how Nine even created the storm, he was literally going to move it all downwards to destroy the island, and the force he was exerting to do that got blasted away by Deku and Bakugo.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
I mean, regardless of how Nine even created the storm, he was literally going to move it all downwards to destroy the island, and the force he was exerting to do that got blasted away by Deku and Bakugo.
Click to expand...
He was gonna bust the island but aren’t we unsure on time frame
Since I never got the implication he was gonna one shot it if Deku and Bakugo didn’t blow it away then and there

If there is then if I remember correctly there was a rejected 7-B+ calc of Nine destroying Nabu Island that could be usable
 
I've seen people say Endeavor took hits from Shiggy to justify downgrading but I'll just point out Endeavor took only a single hit from Shiggy which ended with him being stepped on. Shiggy also did the victory pose after that which was when Shiggy was still having fun. He was clearly still talking to Endeavor which means he didn't expect him to be dead. He still hit Gran Torino and Endeavor again when going after Deku and just grazed them, that doesn't mean they scale considering when he got angry, he immediately crushed and eviscerated Gran Torino who he was taking hits from just a few moments before.

Endeavor even had Ryukyu's boobs to cushion his fall when he took that stomp from Shigaraki.

From the injuries Endeavor took from Hood, like getting his face torn off or getting pierced through the shoulder with pure strength, Shigaraki could easily replicate the same with his bare hands. And Hori definitely kept Shigaraki from tagging most of the characters the entire fight. Anyone that got tagged even offhandedly got severely injured.

Though I don't really have a problem with the Storm feat being disregarded unless we get another similar performance from 100% Deku. As for Prime All Might, I'm still praying for a Prime All Might vs Prime AFO flashback.
 
No, Endeavor scales to Shigaraki's AP. I'm not getting into this discussion again, but I've already explain why Shigaraki using 0.01% of his power makes no sense.

Also Endeavor took an Air Cannon to the face and even clashed with another one. Shigaraki didn't stomp on him, he punched Endeavor downward and landed on him.

Endeavor took that much damage from Hood because of piercing, Hood's arm was shaped into a blade which gave it a cutting power. Hood's blunt attacks didn't do anywhere near that much damage.
 
Last edited:
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
I don’t think Nine scales to the storm it’s a separate statistic completely for him I’m quite sure.

Deku and Bakugo do scale since they could destroy it tho then Nine indirectly scales off surviving hits from them.
Click to expand...
Don't we scale all his quirks to roughly the same tier, at least according to his page
 
No they shouldn't, his Quirks should either be Low 7-B+ in AP for being threating to 100% Izuku and Bakugo (They dodged his attacks) or Unknown as he never actually hit them.
 
Last edited:
I'll also point out that for many MHA characters: AP >>>>>> Durability.

For characters like Endeavor, his AP with Flashfire is enough to hang with top tiers but his durability isn't.

I saw all the discussions that put Endeavor's durability on Shigaraki level and they were filled with holes like people who genuinely thought that regular air canon is similar to Air Canon amped with Spring like limbs, multiple strength enhancers and kinetic boosters.

Shiggy's regular air canon has no solid feats and even 30% Deku could tank it. He tanked it even against one fired by AFO Shiggy. It isn't anything special and in fact Deku tanking at 30% it proves that it's nowhere near where these people placed it at. I literally saw someone try to scale regular Air Canon to 100% Deku lol. How can Shiggy's elbow make 30-45% Deku spit blood yet an Air Canon from AFO Shiggy did no damage to him, just blew him back; and we know Air Canon is a piercing attack from Jeanist incident, at least when enhanced.

As for Shiggy "holding back", everyone does that in this series:

- Muscular vs 5% Deku at the start when later he could match 100% head on. Muscular was severely holding back at first considering his most severe blow only broke Deku's arm. The rest including abdomen kicks and a punch to the back didn't even injure 5% Deku much. He went from that to matching & overpowering 100% Deku. Even Shiggy holding back to like 1% of his strength can't compare to this, Muscular was holding back to like 0.000001% of his real power or something.

- Re-destro vs unawakened Shigaraki. He could have easily torn the latter apart with raw strength.

I used villains cause it is expected for heroes to hold back but villains do hold back too especially when having their fun. And the Muscular example is even more steep compared to Shigaraki & Endeavor as 5% Deku should be far below Endeavor. Muscular went from barely hurting 5% Deku to matching & overpowering 100% Detroit Smash. The difference is like heaven and earth.

One attack where Shigaraki didn't even expect Endeavor to die doesn't mean Endeavor suddenly scales. People would say Torino scales too for exchanging moves with him if he hadn't gotten destroyed when Shiggy got serious. Endeavor never actually exchanged blows with a serious Shiggy.

I have proof that Shiggy wasn't serious when he stomped Endeavor and that was when Rock Lock literally intercepted right in front of him, Shiggy just sidestepped him when he could have burst right through him since Rock Lock is way below even Ryukyu in durability. Shiggy wasted time taking blows from Torino and letting him talk nonsense when he later proved to be far above him after getting serious.
 
Gitagon said:
I'll also point out that for many MHA characters: AP >>>>>> Durability.

For characters like Endeavor, his AP with Flashfire is enough to hang with top tiers but his durability isn't.

I saw all the discussions that put Endeavor's durability on Shigaraki level and they were filled with holes like people who genuinely thought that regular air canon is similar to Air Canon amped with Spring like limbs, multiple strength enhancers and kinetic boosters.

Shiggy's regular air canon has no solid feats and even 30% Deku could tank it. He tanked it even against one fired by AFO Shiggy. It isn't anything special and in fact Deku tanking at 30% it proves that it's nowhere near where these people placed it at. I literally saw someone try to scale regular Air Canon to 100% Deku lol. How can Shiggy can make 30-45% Deku spit blood yet an Air Canon from AFO Shiggy did no damage to him, just blew him back.

As for Shiggy "holding back", everyone does that in this series:

- Muscular vs 5% Deku at the start when later he could match 100% head on. Muscular was severely holding back at first considering his most severe blow only broke Deku's arm. The rest including abdomen kicks and a punch to the back didn't even injure 5% Deku much. He went from that to matching & overpowering 100% Deku.

- Re-destro vs unawakened Shigaraki. He could have easily torn the latter apart with raw strength.

I used villains cause it is expected for heroes to hold back but villains do hold back too especially when having their fun. And the Muscular example is even more steep compared to Shigaraki & Endeavor as 5% Deku should be far below Endeavor. Muscular went from barely hurting 5% Deku to matching & overpowering 100% Detroit Smash. The difference is like heaven and earth.

One attack where Shigaraki didn't even expect Endeavor to die doesn't mean Endeavor suddenly scales. People would say Torino scales too for exchanging moves with him if he hadn't gotten destroyed when Shiggy got serious. Endeavor never actually exchanged blows with a serious Shiggy.

I have proof that Shiggy wasn't serious when he stomped Endeavor and that was when Rock Lock literally intercepted right in front of him, Shiggy just sidestepped him when he could have burst right through him since Rock Lock is way below even Ryukyu in durability. Shiggy wasted time taking blows from Torino and letting him talk nonsense when he later proved to be far above him after getting serious.
Click to expand...
First, 45% was the one that tanked air cannons and a hit from Shigaraki, and those are its only feats, so there is no argument to suggest 45% isn't just weaker than Shigaraki by a quantifiable amount. The one he took at 30% near the end against AFO Shigaraki was done by a severely weakened, near dead, just woke up controlled body, it was no where near as strong as the ones he used vs Endeavor.

Second, Muscular easily broke Deku's arm while toying with him, he wasn't "barely injuring him" lol. I do agree he was clearly holding back a lot however.

Other than that most of what you're saying is pretty true.
 
TheRustyOne said:
No, Endeavor scales to Shigaraki's AP. I'm not getting into this discussion again, but I've already explain why Shigaraki using 0.01% of his power makes no sense.

Also Endeavor took an Air Cannon to the face and even clashed with another one. Shigaraki didn't stomp on him, he punched Endeavor downward and landed on him.

Endeavor took that much damage from Hood because of piercing, Hood's arm was shaped into a blade which gave it a cutting power. Hood's blunt attacks didn't do anywhere near that much damage.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight. Do you think Shigaraki is being serious against Endeavor? If he were serious, he would've killed him instantly instead of just teasing him by mimicking his Number One pose. If he was actually serious, he would've used over several other quirks, other than just regeneration, Air Cannon, and some strength enhancements.

Sure, there might've been a few moments where he should've been serious. Like when he hit Midoriya in the stomach, or when his ass got rocked by 100% Midoriya, or when his speed and power suddenly increased due to bloodlust, but all of those instances aren't scalable to Endeavor. When Endeavor Shigaraki head-on, Shigaraki had ample enough time to block the hit and didn't even take that much damage from it, if not at all.

You could argue that Shigaraki in some way is Low 7-B+? But that's when he's serious, going completely all out, and with his quirks to aid him.
 
Lets also not forget that for most of the conflict, Shigaraki was attempting to get OFA, not fight Endeavor, and was even directly ignoring him to find Deku, because AFO was attempting to take over ever since he woke up. He only got complete control after Endeavor punched him away from Bakugo and he destroyed the visage of AFO in his mind.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
First, 45% was the one that tanked air cannons and a hit from Shigaraki, and those are its only feats, so there is no argument to suggest 45% isn't just weaker than Shigaraki by a quantifiable amount. The one he took at 30% near the end against AFO Shigaraki was done by a severely weakened, near dead, just woke up controlled body, it was no where near as strong as the ones he used vs Endeavor.

Second, Muscular easily broke Deku's arm while toying with him, he wasn't "barely injuring him" lol. I do agree he was clearly holding back a lot however.

Other than that most of what you're saying is pretty true.
Click to expand...
How do people know he was at 45%? Apart from the first 45% kick against Shigaraki's decay, 45% is never mentioned again. We know from Bakugo's inner words during the sprint that 45% is only for short bursts during attacks. It's the new 20% Air Force. It is not his Full Cowl. If Deku could maintain 45% Full Cowling for an extended fight, it would definitely have been mentioned.

I will concede that maybe it was 45% Full Cowl but we honestly have no evidence that it wasn't just his regular 30% Full Cowl.
 
Shigaraki went after Aizawa to get his Quirks back, and tried to grab Izuku and leave. Why does Shigaraki need to do any of that, if he can blow a hole through Endeavor with the energy he generates by flicking his pinky finger? He clearly didn't believe he could take them all on without his Quirks, he needed to get Aizawa off him. Either by getting out of his line of sight or killing/blinding him.

There is no threat if Shigaraki could one shot Endeavor, absolutely zero damn threat. By saying Endeavor's dura is 8-A yet Shigaraki has Low 7-B+ AP, we're saying Shigaraki and that entire fight is the biggest load of CIS and PIS in the entire series.

Shigaraki just became to stupidest character in this manga, even though he himself stated he was done holding backing against the Heroes in the previous arc.

Endeavor, no anyone, would've pointed out that Shigaraki was holding back and take advantage of that, yet it's never stated. In fact it's stated by Shigaraki that the heroes forced him to go past his limits.

This isn't even a big deal when this is all confirmed in universe, with Endeavor's dura being comparable to 45% Izuku. Who's only slightly less than 2X weaker than 100%.

No one has brought up any real reason why Shigaraki would hold back when he tried to kill Endeavor as his first move with decay, yet now all of a sudden he wants to hold back and let him live?

Do I think Endeavor full scales to Shigaraki, no I'm certain he should downscale. Shigaraki wasn't going Plus Ultra on him, but I see no reason to believe he'd holding back his strength by thousands of times.
 
Gitagon said:
How do people know he was at 45%? Apart from the first 45% kick against Shigaraki's decay, 45% is never mentioned again. We know from Bakugo's inner words during the sprint that 45% is only for short bursts during attacks. It's the new 20% Air Force. It is not his Full Cowl. If Deku could maintain 45% Full Cowling for an extended fight, it would definitely have been mentioned.

I will concede that maybe it was 45% Full Cowl but we honestly have no evidence that it wasn't just his regular 30% Full Cowl.
Click to expand...
You can actually visually tell when he's using 45% by the lightning coming off of and coating around his eyes. For example, when he first clashes with Shigaraki to save Aizawa, his eyes are coated in lightning. When he grapples Shigaraki with black whip the first time he has no lightning, but when he succeeds and fully restrains him, he has lightning the entire time. When he's fighting Shigaraki in the air, he has lightning in his eyes and is clearly already going beyond his limits with 100%.

The only outlier for Deku being at 45% is actually his kick vs Shigaraki, and that's because he only used it on his leg not his full body. 30% looks like a standard full cowl, while 45% looks closer to a baby version of Full Cowl 100%.

Also, it is the new 20%, as in he can use it in Full Cowl form as well, it just probably hurts to do. Don't forget that he kept 20% full cowl up after being stabbed and slashed by Overhaul and never dropped it when he activated it. He can keep 45% up for as long as he can bear the pain. And its Deku, so, it might as well not exist when he's angry.
 
Wait what 45% kick against Shigaraki, I don't remember that.
 
You said versus Shigarkai so that threw me way off, since they weren't fighting there so I was thinking about when the two actually started fighting.

Sorry for the derail.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Haruki_Shizu
Can a verse have multiple tier 0?
Replies
16
Views
3K
Astral_Trinity439
Astral_Trinity439
TheOrangeGuy09
GOLB questions
Replies
11
Views
2K
Aolphl
Aolphl
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
Is it Acausality and Resistance to Plot Manipulation? (Spoilers for the Last Action Hero 1993 movie)
Replies
3
Views
418
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
Ser_Hakim_Dayne
OMNIVERSAL-KING
Rule clarification for High 1-A+
Replies
11
Views
2K
VeryGoofyToddler2
VeryGoofyToddler2
TheRustyOne
  • Locked
My Hero Academia: The Final Smash Upgrades
2
Replies
54
Views
5K
TheRustyOne
TheRustyOne
Back
Top