- 10,901
- 14,204
Technically this isn't the case. He's conversting his chakra (energy) into water, so it's not necessarily creation out of nothing in the traditional sense. I am unsure if that changes much though, just thought I'd point it out.
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Water Creation is not a calcable feat
- Thread starter Ricsi-viragosi
- Start date
- 9,952
- 1,998
Since there's no way to calculate the convertion from life energy to matter, that does not change anything.
- 10,901
- 14,204
Fair enough.
- 9,998
- 5,217
I'm none too smart about the calculation side of things, but I do think Ricsi is correct here. This would be like trying to calculate how much water a Pokémon could create out of thin air when it uses Surf or Whirlpool or something like that on land, which luckily no one has tried to do yet.
- 13,751
- 13,857
Water creation can come from a lot of ways. And so are other ways in creating objects or even sentient underlings.
However, most elemental magicians that can summon elemental underlings have their own power levels whose attack energy is irrelevant against the energy level required to pick up soil or water or fire or other "elements" to create them in a scientific way. Not to mention creating sentient underlings can involve life creation where life creation itself is hax.
Do not get me wrong: true matter creation from pure energy has energy yields. And very easily calculated. Just the yield will be too arbitrary for attack potency standing.
However, most elemental magicians that can summon elemental underlings have their own power levels whose attack energy is irrelevant against the energy level required to pick up soil or water or fire or other "elements" to create them in a scientific way. Not to mention creating sentient underlings can involve life creation where life creation itself is hax.
Do not get me wrong: true matter creation from pure energy has energy yields. And very easily calculated. Just the yield will be too arbitrary for attack potency standing.
- 26,116
- 3,649
- 26,116
- 3,649
- Thread starter
- #49
Well, for KE you would either calculatge the speed the water moved to create the dome, or how fast it was moving while Kisame swam.
In both cases, KE is 0.5*[mass of water]*[distance it crossed over a second, in m/s]^2
If it took 5 seconds, then the speed would be a fifth of the radius.
In both cases, KE is 0.5*[mass of water]*[distance it crossed over a second, in m/s]^2
If it took 5 seconds, then the speed would be a fifth of the radius.
- 26,116
- 3,649
- Thread starter
- #51
I know, but same logic would've applied to creation, since you would still need to get joules/sec, not the stamina of a character.
- 13,751
- 13,857
I mean, the GPE and the KE of the summoned underling itself can be used, but the creation process itself, while still should be comparable to condensing a cloud, can be arbitrary in use unless (like other cloud feats, should be) examined with the story plot at the time.
- 29,541
- 24,362
If you'd like, I can re-calculate the feat through GPE for Kisame.
For Nanatsu no Taizai, I'm not so sure about GPE being the best method for that. I'll have to re-investigate the feat.
For Nanatsu no Taizai, I'm not so sure about GPE being the best method for that. I'll have to re-investigate the feat.
- 13,751
- 13,857
I would argue if the summoned object is an inanimate object, the GPE of the object created should be a rough estimate. If the summoned object is a sentient underling, then the KE or scaled striking strength of the underling should be a better estimate.
Nevertheless if one can use energy to condense cloud and the cloud feat can be used as a AP feat, summoning of an object made with water with mass should yield similar... Just like other feats, it can be discarded by other counter feats which can be a problem... Wait this may potentially discard a lot of calculations of storm feats if there is no other feat to support the storm feats.
- 29,541
- 24,362
The method currently being used for Tarmiel from Nanatsu no Taizai and Kisame from Naruto don't appear to be valid. Re-calculating the feats is currently being discussed through other methods, such as Potential Energy or Kinetic Energy.
- 9,952
- 1,998
If the attacks doesn't possesses feats by themselves, then is better choose KE (stuff like aoe also applies at the moment to evaluate individual damage).
- 15,532
- 11,833
If you don't know the speed it's probably better to use PE or something else, after all you'd just be assuming the speed
- 9,952
- 1,998
PE is not really useful unless the mass itself is falling, otherwise its a motionless and harmless body of matter; if it's that, then it would fall under the rules of creation AP.
- 29,541
- 24,362
Wouldn't keeping all of the water up in a bubble instead of allowing it to spread out be something that PE can be used for?
- 164,930
- 71,613
Okay. Thank you for the summary.
- 15,532
- 11,833
It would qualify for PE I'm sure
- 9,952
- 1,998
Would rather leave as Lifting Strength. Unless the mass had fell over someone, PE is not really relevant, as the character can simply create the "bubble" at higher or lower heights: trapping someone in a 3 meters radius 5 or 100 meters above the ground does not really change anything.
- 15,532
- 11,833
That is true, actually, I thought they were lifting it.
- 26,116
- 3,649
- Thread starter
- #69
7 seconds last I checked, and Kisame performs the handseals, and starts spitting aj immense amount of water out.
- 29,541
- 24,362
I'll create a thread to address the Nanatsu no Taizai feat and see what the characters should scale to once that is removed.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 18,385
- 7,238
Bump.
- 29,541
- 24,362
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 18,385
- 7,238
I was more so worried for the Naruto side of things since this Thread is halting the Naruto Revisions.
- 29,541
- 24,362
We decided to remove the couple of calcs that use this method. There discussions up above about possible alternatives such as using GPE of the created water.
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