Warframe Minor Ability and Category additions and Composite Profile

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so been long enough since the last warframe CRT. This will be fairly simple and quick. First of all is the fact that i need to add some minor abilities and categories to the profiles (namely Limbo's profile, since he's the one that's most up to date, but it applies to all) and also do the "tabbers" to divide it in sections.

Some of those abilities include stuff like Absolute Zero (From Glaxion), Self-Sustenance (All types due to not being alive and lacking any human needs), Light Manipulation (With several weapons), Limited Power Mimicry (With specters), Disease Manipulation (With lesion), Magnetism Manipulation (With some weapons), Adhesivity etc. None of these are in any way, shape or form major in the context of warframe, but it'd be best to add them.

Now on to the true point of the CRT. That is the creation of a Composite Profile for Warframes. Due to the nature of the warframes and their link with The Operator, the fight is never restricted to the use of just 1 single warframe. As such a Composite Profile is needed. For the creation of this profile though there is something i am unsure about.

If we make the CP will that profile have all abilities from all warframes and be able to use it at the same time (same as how most other composite profiles work, where even if they have abilities that could not coexist together or come from different times of the character and could never be seen on the character at the same time, they are still able to use them both) or will that be divided (a new type of Composite Profile i guess)?

Im inclined to believe it's the first, but i still want to ask just to be sure about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate regarding the reasons for the additions, and use the Warframe verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The additions are minor, i already messaged several knowledgable members. (Absolute Zero- Glaxion is a weapon that can halt molecular vibrations by hitting people with a cold beam, Adhesivity cus they can stick to walls, Disease Manip because weapons like the lesion are infested so the whole idea of The Infestatio is deseases, toxins, etc, Power Mimicry is cus they can duplicate themselves and create copies of the opponent with all their abilities so since they can create clones that have their opponent's powers it's a limited form of power mimicry, Etc. These are all just minor things that won't rly impact their strength, but ok i'll wait for the knowledgable members' say on this).

I would mostly like your opinion on this the Composite Profile though.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that the new abilities seem fine then.

I don't know if a composite profile is necessary.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I mean composite profiles in general I kinda dislike as they really don't make sense

In most cases composite profiles are for a single character throughout a series i.e composite link is a combination of every link even if it is impossible for him to have every item and it uses the highest stats

In this case warframes are technically different characters so I'm not sure you can combine the abilities of different characters into a single one, that would be like making a composite uchiha or composite hadou god or composite daedric prince.

If anything the only way I could see this working is to update the operator page with the abilities of each warframe and just allow them to use whatever frame during a fight.

For the other things, does magnetic really count as magnetism manip? It doesn't really act like it.

Idk if power mimicry really counts for specters. You first need the knowledge and information on what you are making a specter of and afaik they are also slightly weaker

Everything else I agree with

time to list every issue I currently have with the profiles here ovo

 

[Firephoenixearl]

A composite profile would be the true warframe profile though (the lore warframe profile). As in the lore the operator is not restricted to a single warframe and will use any and all warframes to come out victorious, if anything a composite warframe makes much more sense than single warframe profiles due to how the lore and operator applies.

@Paul. Well yes but they are still the shell for the same thing. They are different skins of the same person (the operator). They are not exactly different beings, just different toys manipulated by the same guy. And about the abilities, it's not just link, but example Composite Wii has all abilities in a single key (even though he should be divided in classes IIRC).

 

[Paul_Frank]

@fire

Yeah but that's because they are the same character still, a mii fighter

The one thing on common between the frames is they are controlled by the operator so it would make more sense to just put them in the operator's p&a as [Power] with[Frame] or divide the profile into the abilities with different frames and just allow the operator to use any frame during the fight and switch when one is destoyed or not working out well as that's closer to the in verse lore than a single frame with every power.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Paul

The warframes are still different versions of the same thing.

I could agree to that, but in vs debates that would be as far from the lores as it can get. As the operator would be affected by SBA range, knowledge etc, thing in which the lores is not applicable. Or would the different key "With Warframes" be the game changer and have the warframes be affected by SBA instead of the operator?

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that a composite seems inappropriate and sets a bad precedent for other verses.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But i guess i could agree to Paul's proposal and make it just an extention to The Operator's profile. If that seems like a better option overall i wouldn't mind having the lore like that (cus i guess composite warframe at the end of the day is just the operator fighting unrestricted).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Okay.

So it's ok to apply the changes?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Could you unlock Limbo's profile then?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Composite is a no, The Operator isn't controlling literally every warframe in existence via some sort of hive mind.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Composite is a no, The Operator isn't controlling literally every warframe in existence via some sort of hive mind.

More than "every" it would be more aching to "any". And we decided it just being a new key for the operator was fine.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because that is wrong, you even write in the op why it would be wrong and pretty much wish to make it so because of ridiculous profiles like composite linkI assume.

It's contradictory and would make the profiles nonsensically bloated more then it already is. The operator should be separate from the frames. They're not even in the same star system as far as I'm aware and there exist more then one operator based on lore.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not exactly wrong. That would be a true fight against the operator. In every fight we'r assuming the operator is restricted to just 1 frame which is pretty untrue when it comes to how real fight would play out which is what we try to replicate here.

Yes there is more than 1 operator, but it only follows the story of one (just the player), it seems to forget that there are tons of other operators so it's only 1 operator that absorbs TMiTW, kills the queens etc. The operator is separate from the warframes but it would fall under the Standard Equipment.

 

[Wokistan]

Throwback to Composite Guardia

Considering that they're completely different warframes, it really shouldn't composite. They can't just switch between them or spawn more on the fly, if there's no instance of them fighting with warframe swarms like that you can't just make them for vs threads.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

THe operator isn't just spawning a bunch of frames infinitely, they have to transfer their consciousness into the frames. Each invidivual frame is created and then sent on a mission and what not via the operator controlling them remotely.

Also no there isn't one operator, there is an unknown number of operators all completing the same missions as us. The player is just "special" or whatever.

So even if you use a "true fight" against the operator, they're not just pulling more warframes out nowhere because they'd have to re-establish a link.

 

[Antvasima]

Sigurd is most likely correct.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah sigurd is right

What I meant by my suggestion is that if a "composite" profile is put together it would moreso be giving the operator the ability to use any frame but not all at the same time. Op would state what frame is started with and if that frame is dealt with the operator simply gets to send a different frame in if need be

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok then, but would it be acceptable for the operator to bring in a different frame? I mean if we have a fight like Nyx vs X Character. Would it be acceptable if the operator brings in Inaros should Nyx die?

@Sigurd It is a remote control kind of thing. The consciousness transfer was never stated to be the case, neither was the link. It's been made pretty clear throughout the game that the operator can control any 1 warframe without any need for linking or stuff like that. Consciousness transfer was never stated to be how transferrence works.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

How else are they gonna do it if no via linking? Sending their souls and mind across light years into the warframe??? The operator is literally hooked up to a machine.

And no that shouldn't be added, You're pretty much saying in order to beat the operator you need to beat every single warframe they ever add. If he loses with his designated warframe then he loses. This isn't even something possible in the game or lore in such quick succession.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yes if frame x dies the operator can bring in frame y

The conciousness transfer thing is basically shown to be true. There is more evidence to it being conciousness transfer than just sending energy

 

[Firephoenixearl]

How else are they gonna do it if no via linking? Sending their souls and mind across light years into the warframe??? The operator is literally hooked up to a machine.

By manipulating void energy inside them. Just simple Energy Manipulation which leads to Body Puppetry. There is absolutely no need for him to send his mind and soul there. We already know it is done by manipulating energy (that much is fact), Paul believes that they also send their mind (consciousness) there, but that can be argued in a thread of it's own.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Citation for this, because that's completely unfounded. You're arguing they're sending energy constantly light years away which somehow allows them to control the frame and bounce back to another like some sort of parasite.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Citation for this, because that's completely unfounded. You're arguing they're sending energy constantly light years away which somehow allows them to control the frame and bounce back to another like some sort of parasite.

That's exactly what they do though. Remember void avatar is LITERALLY a projection of void energy that is being manipulated by the operator the same way he's manipulating the warframes, through void energy.

And bouncing from 1 frame to the other is literally the whole point of warframe dude. That's exactly what the operator does, which is why the Stalker just keeps on obliterating warframes, but more come back. Why the warframes always win (adaption and retry methods), why the warframes are always prepared, why you are allowed to change warframes in a moment's notice through ship arsenal's/Relays/PoE/Fortuna relays. I mean dude the operator literally jumps from 1 warframe to umbra in the quest in a snap.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes if frame x dies the operator can bring in frame y
The conciousness transfer thing is basically shown to be true. There is more evidence to it being conciousness transfer than just sending energy

Then that changes things. Composite Warframe is useless if the operator is allowed to change from X to Y in a fight.

Just make the darned thread so i can prove you wrong already xD

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You didn't understand what I mean. The canon information we have is the Tenno's ship which is what is used to switch between warframes and gear. Nothing else including this void energy parasite nonsense spanning light years in range.

Unless you can provide a citation of your claim that it's being controlled through that, it doesn't matter honestly. ( Sorry if I come off as rude, it isn't intended).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Huh? Light Years of distance is the problem? The Operator can control void energy universes away and it's even unaffected by the 4th dimension (time) (can keep the link even if they don't exist at the same point in time). I already gave proof in the threads that got this accepted (although the idea was Dienomite's not mine). From stuff like working in the rift and the void coming from another dimension.

We know that the operator provides energy to the warframe and the void avatar is just the void energy of the warframe going out being manipulated by the true operator. Energy Manipulation doesn't require any form of consciousness or soul and we know that the range from which the operator can control the warframe FAR exceeds solar system level. We know that he can manipulate energy from that far and said energy goes into the warframe. For those reasons and more we know for a fact that the warframe is controled through void energy. Now it's up to you to prove that besides void energy they also transfer their consciousness and soul. (When it is stated time and time again that the warframes and mindless and souless, if the consciousness and soul were to transfer that wouldn't be the case as they would have the mind and soul of the operator and it wouldn't be as hard for people to finish of the warframe. It would have just been as easy and destroying the operator's soul, but nope even hunhow had to hire the stalker to go find the operator and kill him physically.)

About The Operator being able to easily go from warframe to warframe nigh-instantly, it's basically what they did to umbra (The Sacrifice quest). I mean they were just jumping from warframe, to void avatar then to umbra's mind (cus umbra is the only warframe that has a mind, so it had to be overriden first). So yeah the operator can just easily jump from wf to wf and from being to being in a moments notice.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. What do you mean control void energy universes away? As in the location of the warframe? I have no idea where it is stated to be a multiversal range between operator and warframe. The void is pretty much like a worm hole that was used to get to locations faster like warp speed. Don't know about it being an entire other universe as opposed to something like a pocket dimension.

2.The device used for transference is the somatic link, which is a piece of technology that transfers the operators conciousness into the warframe as you say and also physically bounds the operator. Also Warframes do have a "mind" but its mostly all instincts you can see this on Rhino's codex entry where it was being tortured and it acted on it's own. Another way for the operator to control the warframe is by physically touching it and transfering power. Every other instance besides this has the warframe just ceasing it's function. But you're correct about the "soul" part, was the wrong choice of words on my part.

3. Pretty long video...But it seems the Operator saved Umbra who used to be human by promising him they'd kill Ballas. Then you quite literally see them do transference and become one via body and mind. But yeah I do see what you mean by they can switch between void avatar or warframe instantly.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The only time the operator only used energy and not their conciousness to power a warframe is at the end of the second dream

When the stalker stabs your frame you tap its back and transfer enough energy for its basic instincts to allow it to stand back up and fight

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Still disagree with a composite warframe profile since it just isn't how it works.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I can agree with that. What about the rest?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The conclusions are :No Composite warframe, but it should be allowed for the operator to transfer from warframe to warframe.

And the addition of the minor things i said.

The rest is being discussed.

Ok @Paul you win you turned my CRT into your CRT

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The only time the operator only used energy and not their conciousness to power a warframe is at the end of the second dream
When the stalker stabs your frame you tap its back and transfer enough energy for its basic instincts to allow it to stand back up and fight

Which more than proves the fact that they don't need to transfer consciousness to control the warframe.

 

[Paul_Frank]

They didn't control the frame there

The frame used its basic preservation instincts like Rhino in the codex

Every other time they used their conciousness, even Ordis comments at the end of the War Within asking "Where are you going" and saying "Don't leave me". Those words would make no sense if the operator were not either physically possessing the frames(which can easily be seen to be false) or transfering their conciousness into the frames and Ordis would know how transference works.


I didn't make it into my crt Sigurd made it into my crt ovo next we will talk about deconstruction and time travel