Vincent (Catherine) Discussion

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Before I can try to make a profile for this person.... A few things need addressing . If you can, I'd like to ask if you can help me answer these as soon as it is possible. Help would be most appreciated.

I know Catherine takes place within Shin Megami Tensei . My question is.... Where would it take place ? Would it be Post-SMT or during the events of that world ? And also... If he were to become a Demon... Would he get the perks the SMT demons get ?

I'm saying the abecause Vincent's Demon Form + Axis Mundi statements seems to imply he scales > The Protagonists of the SMT series + the Gods based on what was stated directly:

• Axis Mundi (AKA The Player or Possessed Vincent) : Ishtar states directly that his power surpasses all the Gods, even before becoming a God himself. This is impressive because of the fact this for one is SMT. Two because he stated he viewed the realm of the deities of SMT as nothing but a playground afterwords.
• Demon Vincent: Stated that no other human ever had as much power as he does at that moment. Thusly, this would imply (if we can do this) scale him to the SMT's Protagonists .

Remember Ishtar wasn't impressed with this Demon Vincent , implying Pre-Godhood Axis Mundi Possessed Vincent >>>> Demon Vincent

SO... If accepted, this would be the scaling chain (Assuming this takes place Post-SMT):

Vincent (Godhood;Post-Axis Mundi)>>> Vincent (Pre-Godhood;Post-Axis Mundi) >>> Demon Vincent >>> human SMT Protagonists at their highest if him scaling to said characters is given the golden symbol of approval.

 

[Tonygameman]

Extremely year-long bump (there's also a calculatio).

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

What would we even do with this?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I have a very hard time accepting the fact that Vincent is above people like Aleph, Abel, Shining One, Raidou, Nanashi, etc.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Like said it depends on the time of the events. He would be Tier 2 anyways, just where Catherine takes place in SMT determines how the scaling would work.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

That wouldn't matter anyways. Since that statement isn't automatically true. Like Satan said Aleph is the strongest human to oppose God but that's invalid since IVA characters like Asahi exist. Or Nocturne Lucifer saying he's the "greatest power of darkness" but Demon Lord Lucifer from IV is actually alot stronger. Ishtar or whoever is just speaking in the context of their multiverse\space they're in for that game. Not as a definitive fact for the whole series.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Do we have any proof Catherine is even part or after SMT?

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Ishtar is the main connection. Otherwise the game has no connection since the universe Vincent is in connected to Persona and Ishtar observers outside it for fun. But yeah Catherine dosen't direct have any connection to any SMT game timeline as far as I can tell

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Do we count that as canon? The SMT x Catherine x Persona crossover. Because I know Vincent shows up in P3P.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

I'm actually not entirely sure. Well it dosen't matter much anyways since Vincent dosen't scale to any protag. At most I'd say he's 2-A alongside demonic generals like Samyaza

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Alright, I guess I can agree with that.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

We've worked out a scaling chain for finite 2-A, where Vincent should be. Looking at this, why would be be alongside the demon generals? At best I'd just say he's Unknown, likely 2-A, possibly higher.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Possibly higher?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Since apparently "no other human" had as much power as him, and saw the world of SMT as a playground, and it's gods, but is a dubious statement at best.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The only one who would arguably scale is Axis Mundi. Demon Vincent is in the same rough power level. BTW if the universe of Catherine being affected apparently qualifies for 2-A as Ishtar's profile comes from, apparently even Catherine herself would be affected since the Demons have complete control over the realm in Catherine, especially the Angels like Rin.

It was clear Axis Mundi was beyond the Catherine verse completely and he was likely in the SMT verse when he was in Axis Mundi, but only for that version. I would say " At least 2-A (As one who views the World of Shin Megami Tensei as a playtoy and it's gods, he should be vastly above Ishtar) , possibly Higher(Insert reasoning here) "

It's safe to say at the absolute least he vastly surpasses Ishtar in his Axis Mundi power level, but whether he scales to the Top Tiers shouldn't be explicitly clear .

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'm still very uncertain about such a statement and I'm more comfortable saying he's unknown, likely 2-A, possibly higher.

Do we have any reason to believe Ishtar even knows the full scope of these higher gods and humans?

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Plus isn't saying "The World of SMT" a bit much? That would imply like a verse superiority