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Vegito, again. Sorry.

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PaChi2

PaChi2

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Sorry to bring this here, but recently there has been a big increase of threads asking for vegito's upgrade to Low 2-C on the basis that "logically speaking Goku and Vegeta are superior in Super Saiyan Blue to SSj2 Caulifla and Berserker Kale".

Since there seems to be some sort of disagreement within the staff, I would like the opinion of others so that this issue isnt brought up in the future.

Sorry again, I didn't want to bother the rest of the staff with Dragon Ball Super issues... I know its really tiring for you all to have to deal with this constantly.

Note: STRICTLY STAFF ONLY.
 
There is no argument to be had here. It is entirely based on a poorly argued idea that "Vegito broke due to his power and Kefla didn't", and an idea that because Tournament of Power Goku and Vegeta > Caulifla and Kale, then Future Trunks Vegito should be above Tournament of Power Kefla, which is nonsnese.

Vegito has 0 feats that put him above Kefla.
 
If that's the case, its okay to insta-reject any thread ot this kind that pops up in the future?
 
Then, If you allow me, I will quote your first reply if needed. Is it okay with you?

Edit: before that, I'd like the opinion of more staff members, if possible.
 
Yeah, I'm with Matt here. Goku and Vegita are far stronger now than they were previously. If they fuse again then maybe we can get somewhere, but the Vegito they want to upgrade is not at the same level.
 
Considering how many interviews with Toriyama are about how he forgets stuff like SSJ2, it wouldn't be a surprise for him to forget that Vegito defused due to his sheer power while leaving Kefla enjoy her exstant (To, what, her fight with Goku wasn't like a minute long or something in the tournament?)
 
AidenBrooks999 said:
Considering how many interviews with Toriyama are about how he forgets stuff like SSJ2, it wouldn't be a surprise for him to forget that Vegito defused due to his sheer power while leaving Kefla enjoy her exstant (To, what, her fight with Goku wasn't like a minute long or something in the tournament?)
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Her fight lasted 4 minutes.

Vegito defused after 10, I think.

So that's not even an argument.
 
The potara argument likely fails, because they're in a place with no time.

I'm pretty sure everyone wanted a low 2-C Zamasu based on Gowasu saying his power expanded to no end after fusing.

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i agree with mat as well should be a rule about this too cause this seems repetitive
 
"Please refrain from creating threads about scaling Future Trunks Saga Super Saiyan Blue Vegito to Super Saiyan 2 Kefla. This topic has been repeatedly discussed, and the arguments for such a thing are very ungrounded and presumptuous, with nothing in canon implying a relative scale of power between the two."

Have this so far for the rule.
 
Just a discussion between non-staff members.
 
There is no proof. IF there is a Tournament of Power Vegito, then we can get somewhere.

Future Trunks Vegito has 0 feats that put him above Kefla. She is stronger than Future Trunks Arc Vegito.
 
@Non staff:

If you have anything to say, you can talk to the staff's walls. Please keep this thread staff only.
 
You could ask ALRF and Aeyu. They had very good arguments against Kefla being inferior to Vegito.

But yes, we should add the rule.
 
"Bull. Kefla has ZERO feats putting her above Vegetto. Kefla was losing to a character physically inferior to the likes of Beerus and Jiren."

Did you not watch the episode? There is even a statement about her being as strong as Goku when he first entered UI.

"She was a fusion between two people inferior to Goku and Vegeta and her max power was in an inferior form to Super Saiyan Blue."

Means nothing. Kefla clearly was a powerful Potara fusion.

"Unlike Vegetto she got no rival boost from their fusion either. "

When has rival boost been a thing?

"There is NO actually evidence from Toei, Toriyama, Toyotaro, NOTHING indicating Kefla is infinetly above Vegetto (besides the fact that it logically makes no sense)"

That's because Kefla has 0 to do with Vegito. Absolutely nothing. Only thing that have in common is that the are Saiyan Potara fusions. Nothing more. Hell, these guys don't even know the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C is even a thing. They know less about it being an infinity gap.

Your main argument here seems to boil down to "I can't believe Kefla is stronger than Vegito". Something in which is a fallacy, i.e Argument from Incredulity
 
Here are some people that might be possible to ask for input:

FanofRPGs

AkuAkuAkuma

The real cal howard

The Everlasting

DodoNova

Unite My Rice

ZeedMillenniummon89

Numbersguy

Aeyu
 
The difference of opinion here seems to be that Dragoon says that Vegetto should logically be comparable to Kefla and that the DBS writers make no conscious distinction between 3-A and Low 2-C, which I think is correct, whereas Matthew says that we technically have no proof of this, which is also correct.
 
Just going to say this:

In dragon ball there is no infinity gap between any two characters (except maybe Zeno, but whatevs). Hell, you can trai to be Jiren level stuff.

Therefore, Low 2-C Farmer with a shotgun because there is no infinity between him and Jiren? fiction doesnt follow the infinity gap between 3-A and Low 2-C.
 
"I have. Have you? Kefla literally could not hit Goku ONCE. Even assuming she was physically superior to UI Goku that means nothing as that puts her leagues below Vegetto in physicals anyway."

Yeah, she didn't hit him because Whis literally said that Goku's reaction speeds were faster. This is Ultra Instinct we are talking about. Power means shit unless you can actually hit your opponent.

"...and? So was Vegetto. Is Vegetto NOT a powerful Potara fusion? What kind of argument is this?"

And unlike Vegito, Kefla has feats of being Low 2-C. Vegito doesn't. If he does, show me. The Burden of Proof is on you. We've already had a thread for Kefla being upgraded.

"Ever since Elder Kai mentioned it? He flat out said Goku and Vegeta being rivals was a factor into their potara being strong."

If he did I missed it. My apologies. However, in the end that has nothing to do with Kefla's power.

"1. If there isn't an infinite garp between the two.. why the hell is Kefla Low 2-C?! By putting her at that tier you are implying that she is! "

Did you read my comment? I never said she wasn't Low 2-C. I said the writers didn't know they made her that strong. Nothing more. Whether they know she's that strong is none of our concern.

"2. Considering your argument is basically "I can't believe that Kefla could be weaker than Vegetto!!" than that's insanely hypocritical."

I never said nor implied this in my comments while you have. My argument is the Vegito cannot be Low 2-C as he has no feats himself of being that level. Goku and Vegeta have not fused in this arc and thus he doesn't get an upgrade. This is the same reason to why when Super gave us 3-A feats, Vegito wasn't upgraded until he appeared. Same happens here. Try again.
 
Dragoon actually does have some good points. In the manga it was also clarified that Vegetto was stronger than Beerus, so if this was almost stated in the anime as well, this seems to show the intent of Toriyama.
 
Antvasima said:
Dragoon actually does have some good points. In the manga it was also clarified that Vegetto was stronger than Beerus, so if this was almost stated in the anime as well, this seems to show the intent of Toriyama.
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Yes, Vegito's saving grace would be that statement from the manga. If you take it into account, yes, vegito should scale. Otherwise it seems iffy.
 
i don't remember vegito>beerus or close to him by a sizable margin mentioned in the anime. Manga is secondary canon AFAIK otherwise we will probably have put hakai for goku if we take manga as a factor anime canon > manga canon AFAIK
 
Antvasima said:
Dragoon actually does have some good points. In the manga it was also clarified that Vegetto was stronger than Beerus, so if this was almost stated in the anime as well, this seems to show the intent of Toriyama.
Click to expand...
We don't use th manga however, and didn't we have a huge debate over using author intent and saying we don't care for what said author intended?
 
Well, I just mean that if Vegetto was stated to be stronger than the gods, and Toriyama gives direct input to both the manga and anime writers, this does seem to indicate what was intended with the statement.
 
If he's stated to be stronger than the Gods, then he is Low 2-C. But only if stated in the Anime. We do not use the manga here.
 
Dragoon said that this was stated in the anime, if I understood him correctly.
 
Antvasima said:
Dragoon said that this was stated in the anime, if I understood him correctly.
Click to expand...
nope, it wasnt, otherwise we would have already upgraded Vegito and Zamasu.
 
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