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Vegeta vs. Frieza (Concluded)
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Ya, golden frieza should take this at this point in the timeline
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I vote for golden frieza
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Ok, any elaboration? EDIT: What I mean is, why do you think he takes it. I just kind of need your reasoning before I count any vote.Darkmon cns said:
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He's stronger, plan and simple, vegeta should be on par with goku, and goku needed Kaioken to fight golden frieza, which vegeta dose not have.
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When did Goku ever use Kaioken to fight Frieza? In fact hust before the tournament they knocked each other out.Darkmon cns said:
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That's what I'm thinking. Goku and Frieza basically tied and Vegeta should be comparable to Goku (outside of Kaioken) at this point.Hst master said:
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This is difficult but I think I will go for Frieza.
Frieza's absurd endurance may enable him to survive Final Explosion (which only SSBE Vegeta can survive using anyways). He has vastly superior control over Ki (Effortless manipulation of his Death Beams) and he has potential access to Death Cage (Which he used less than hour after his training in Hell so it's arguably available to him).
Frieza also has vastly superior telekinesis and has access to paralysis. So, overall? Frieza has all of the technical advantage, as far as I can see. Vegeta has arguably more powerful techniques (Final Flash and Final Explosion) but unfortunately lacks any notable technical prowess.
In terms of better fighters? Frieza spent an entire year analyzing Goku's fighting style and can completely equal him in power and movements. Vegeta could analyze Jiren and hit him directly. It's arguable which one would be better suited for fighting the other. Frieza understands and matches Goku's skill as a martial artist but Vegeta could find a hole in Jiren's style.
So I'd say they have very similar power and skill but Frieza has superior technique and vastly superior endurance. Vegeta's only real way to kill Frieza, IMO is if Frieza became exhausted or if Vegeta uses Final Explosion. The only way Frieza will become exhausted is if he uses Death Cage and Vegeta can only survive Final Explosion with his SSBE.
Overall, I'd give this to Frieza with mid-high difficulty. I can see arguments for Final Explosion killing Frieza but that would also kill Vegeta, leading to an incon.
Frieza's absurd endurance may enable him to survive Final Explosion (which only SSBE Vegeta can survive using anyways). He has vastly superior control over Ki (Effortless manipulation of his Death Beams) and he has potential access to Death Cage (Which he used less than hour after his training in Hell so it's arguably available to him).
Frieza also has vastly superior telekinesis and has access to paralysis. So, overall? Frieza has all of the technical advantage, as far as I can see. Vegeta has arguably more powerful techniques (Final Flash and Final Explosion) but unfortunately lacks any notable technical prowess.
In terms of better fighters? Frieza spent an entire year analyzing Goku's fighting style and can completely equal him in power and movements. Vegeta could analyze Jiren and hit him directly. It's arguable which one would be better suited for fighting the other. Frieza understands and matches Goku's skill as a martial artist but Vegeta could find a hole in Jiren's style.
So I'd say they have very similar power and skill but Frieza has superior technique and vastly superior endurance. Vegeta's only real way to kill Frieza, IMO is if Frieza became exhausted or if Vegeta uses Final Explosion. The only way Frieza will become exhausted is if he uses Death Cage and Vegeta can only survive Final Explosion with his SSBE.
Overall, I'd give this to Frieza with mid-high difficulty. I can see arguments for Final Explosion killing Frieza but that would also kill Vegeta, leading to an incon.
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After some more consideration, I'd have to also note that Frieza may have the speed advantage due to Dyspo scaling.
SSG Goku struggled to deal with Dyspo. SSB Goku also couldn't hit or put down Dyspo whereas Base Frieza (who I generally treat as comparable to SSG Goku) could keep up with Dyspo in speed, tank all of his attacks and then catch and damage Dyspo with his tail.
Golden Frieza then completely and utterly overwhelmed Dyspo with zero difficulty. He could only be overwhelmed by Dyspo's full speed and even then he could block and dodge all of Dyspo's blows (besides a single surprise punch).
In other words, Frieza can handle Base Dyspo, who overwhelms SSG Goku, and Golden Frieza can stomp the Dyspo that SSB Goku struggled to hit.
I'd overall estimate one of three possibilities.
1. Frieza grew stronger in the ToP (rendering scaling and feats there void)
2. Frieza is naturally much faster than people he scales to
3. DBS Inconsistency renders it a total outlier
SSG Goku struggled to deal with Dyspo. SSB Goku also couldn't hit or put down Dyspo whereas Base Frieza (who I generally treat as comparable to SSG Goku) could keep up with Dyspo in speed, tank all of his attacks and then catch and damage Dyspo with his tail.
Golden Frieza then completely and utterly overwhelmed Dyspo with zero difficulty. He could only be overwhelmed by Dyspo's full speed and even then he could block and dodge all of Dyspo's blows (besides a single surprise punch).
In other words, Frieza can handle Base Dyspo, who overwhelms SSG Goku, and Golden Frieza can stomp the Dyspo that SSB Goku struggled to hit.
I'd overall estimate one of three possibilities.
1. Frieza grew stronger in the ToP (rendering scaling and feats there void)
2. Frieza is naturally much faster than people he scales to
3. DBS Inconsistency renders it a total outlier
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Tbh they probably tie, being honest. Frieza's only done 4 months of training in his whole life. He's nowhere near on the level of Vegeta in technical prowess. Sure he's not an amateur anymore but he's still not Vegeta.
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He spent an entire year refining his energy and meditating purely on Goku's fighting style. He, at the very least, is at the skill level that he completely understands how Goku, a master martial artist, fights and match him completely. His energy control is also much more impressive than Vegeta or Goku.The real cal howard said:
It's also worth noting that he fought Goku without a omnidirectional life sense like most of the cast has, and actively suppressed himself down to Goku's level and could keep up in pure hand-to-hand. Frieza has always been an adept fighter at the absolute minimum. Compare to Vegeta who, as far as we know, has only ever been trained by Whis yet Frieza can completely match Goku's skill despite Goku having years to train with Whis.
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Vegeta: 0
Frieza: 1
Incon: 1
Frieza: 1
Incon: 1
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I recalled goku using kaioken during that encounter, perhaps I was wrongHst master said:
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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ProudLearner
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Frieza should have a slight advantage yet with Reactive Power Level, Vegeta should win this with difficulty.
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I don't think Vegeta's zenkai is good enough for him to grow notably more powerful. Saiyans grow stronger after recovering from damage IIRC. Only exceptions that come to mind are Broly growing in power rapidly as he fights (something Vegeta notes, which implies that Saiyans do not usually grow as they fight naturally) and Goku growing in skill as he fought Caulifa and Kale.
So, I don't think Vegeta will do much with his Reactive Power Level here. His best bet would have to do with his anger boosting amplifying his powers greatly, but we don't know how Beginning ToP Vegeta scales. We know he is akin to Goku but we don't know if that's with anger boosting or not.
Vegeta might have an AP advantage with anger boosting, Final Flash and Final Explosion though. But Frieza's endurance, survivability, ki control, telekinesis and paralysis would even things out.
I'm going to bump my vote from mid-high to Frieza winning with high difficulty though. I can easily see this being inconclusive.
So, I don't think Vegeta will do much with his Reactive Power Level here. His best bet would have to do with his anger boosting amplifying his powers greatly, but we don't know how Beginning ToP Vegeta scales. We know he is akin to Goku but we don't know if that's with anger boosting or not.
Vegeta might have an AP advantage with anger boosting, Final Flash and Final Explosion though. But Frieza's endurance, survivability, ki control, telekinesis and paralysis would even things out.
I'm going to bump my vote from mid-high to Frieza winning with high difficulty though. I can easily see this being inconclusive.
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I have several questions that I'm asking to myself right now, but all of them leads to me concluding that Freeza should win this more times than not.
For the reasons above.
For the reasons above.
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Just to be sure, is that a vote, PaChi?PaChi2 said:
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GlaceonGamez471
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Golden Lizard FRA
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Ok, grace has come and gone. I shall go ahead and request this.
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Cool.Skalt711 said:
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Because that fight was a 'first one to punch the other wins' match. You can't claim they would just do a double KO when this is a death match between Vegeta, who hates Frieza, and Frieza, who is apathetic towards Vegeta but is a ****** that loathes saiyans.
If anything, Goku and Frieza probably went full power when they charged eachother so they could maximise their speed and strength to hit eachother first, just for the result to be them being complete equals in their strength and speed.
If anything, Goku and Frieza probably went full power when they charged eachother so they could maximise their speed and strength to hit eachother first, just for the result to be them being complete equals in their strength and speed.
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In-fact, while Whis doesn't specify blasts are not allowed, Whis rules that the 'first one to land a punch' wins. Meaning Goku and Frieza were focusing purely on punching one another first, meaning maximising speed and power for a singular physical attack would be the best method of success.
If they were having a death match, they would be spamming ki blasts and trying to outlast eachother.
If they were having a death match, they would be spamming ki blasts and trying to outlast eachother.
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Again, doesn't take away from the fact that they both are equals and Vegeta has way more experience and fighting prowess. If they are willing to kill each other, they would go all out from the start just like what happened in Goku vs Freeza, and both can KO each other. Cal is right.
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