Vegeta fights a very hungry... thing

[DaReaperMan]

Speed Equal

first key Vegeta with prior knowledge on Guzzlord's stats used

Guzzlord is 3-C

Battle takes place in Ultraspace 10 meters away

Vegeta: 0

Guzzlord: 0

incon: 0

Battle music

 

[Noneless21]

I just look and it seems that Guzzlord is comparable to ultre necrozma which have almost 3-B AP, dunno if it's right or wrong tho

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just look and it seems that Guzzlord is comparable to ultre necrozma which have almost 3-B AP, dunno if it's right or wrong tho

I believe it's about right, but that's why i gave Vegeta knowledge on its physical stats so he'd know to bust out a transformation lol

 

[Noneless21]

Ah i see, i guess vegeta's 3-B AP is baseline i guess?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah it seems baseline lol

 

[Noneless21]

Lel, guess it's a fair match then

Alright, i guess Vegeta will just keep on range spamming his energy blast to guzzlord

Now i dunno if guzzlord can eat vegeta's attack? It's probably a stretch, but considering guzzlord has wide guard to protect himself from the range spam, i guess he just need to wait for vegeta to stop spam and get close to attack him with various moves

 

[DaReaperMan]

Guzzlord also has ranged attacks of its own if it feels like it lol

 

[thetechmaster36]

The one that screams a lot for reasons below.

 

[Noneless21]

guess this'll be range spam match ig, maybe we should wait for more pokemon and DB fan

i just hope this didn't turn toxic.....

 

[Imaginym]

Does Guzzlord have Range?
Surprisingly confusing question.

Looking at the profile....
Range:Extended melee range. Planetary with projectiles and abilities.

I don't know if that's a statistic in need of updating or not yet.

The ranged moves that its profile lists it as getting are.... Dragon Rage, Belch (Level-Up), &....
Sludge Bomb, Fire Blast, Round & Stone Edge?

The profile neglects to explain how it gets these moves. I'm not sure if Stone Edge can target aerial targets, but it does seem to be often depicted as supernaturally moving stones being aimed & launched at a target, so it may be able to hit a flying Vegeta? https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Stone_Edge_(move)
(I wonder if Stone Edge qualifies as Danmaku &/or Homing Attack.)

Notably, in gameplay, Belch requries consumption of a Berry to use. Guzzlord does not have any listed as Standard Equipment, but it is described as constantly eating:

Moon	A dangerous Ultra Beast, it appears to be eating constantly, but for some reason its droppings have never been found.

Ultra Moon	An unknown life-form called a UB. It may be constantly hungry—it is certainly always devouring something.

So maybe it can use the move using alternatives to berries?

A Wild Guzzlord used it in the episode "Battling the Beast Within!", so I think I would appreciate it if someone got scans of it using the move from that episode.

A move the profile neglects to include is Snarl, as Bulbapedia notes a Wild Guzzlord used it, as well as a different Guzzlord (Distinguished by it being Shiny.) later using it: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ultra_Beasts_(anime)#Manalo_Stadium_Guzzlord

If we consider Snarl as valid (Despite it not being on the profile.), Snarl, early on, was depicted as energy orbs, then as what Bulbapedia calls "rings of energy" from its mouth, despite Snarl being a Sound-based move, based on the description saying "The user yells as if it's ranting about something". Maybe it's Sound-based Energy Projection?
Anyway, Snarl, notably, has a 95% Accuracy, somehow, so it's ostensibly slightly less accurate, going by gameplay at least, & lowers the victim's Special (Non-Physical) Attack. Kinda useful if Vegeta spams ki & Guzzlord needs to outlast him.
In Pokemon gameplay, statistics reductions (Starting at base, at least.), reduce the victim to, in this order: 66.66~%, 50%, 40%, 33.33~%, 28.57~%, & then 25%. In the absence of other modifiers, this is what we have, although it does indicate diminishing returns, &, if non-Pokemon victims can be reduced below 6 stages below base, it's unclear how that affects their statistics.


It's unclear what the basis for listing Fire Blast, Round, & Stone Edge (& yet not Snarl.) on Guzzlord's profile. Maybe those moves were depicted as being used by it in the Manga?
Round probably isn't notable; It's a mediocre Normal-type move (60 Base Power in gameplay.) that has double Strenth if more than one Pokemon (& presumably other beings, if Vegeta somehow copies it for some reason.) at the same time, in which case, all Round users move immediately after one another, based on the Speed among those Round users, even if the slower of the Round users using Round immediately after the faster user would normally be out of the order dictated by the turns/speed.

I somehow doubt Vegeta is going to sing at &/or with Guzzlord. Both of them MIGHT scream, if that qualifies. So as said, Round probably isn't notable.

Interestingly, Fire Blast is often depicted in the shape of the Kanji 大, which often means "big" in Japanese: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fire_Blast_(move)

& Dragon Rage is often depicted as blue energy, or flames or cyclones, so it does seem to be a ranged attack: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Dragon_Rage_(move)

EDIT: Oh, & Sludge Bomb, in gameplay, is a 90 Base Power Poison-type move with a 30% chance of Poisoning the victim. In the most recent version of the games, during battle, Poison depletes 12.5% of the victim's HP. I'd assume it affects Stamina similarly. I don't know if Sludge Bomb's Poison has been depicted as functioning differently. (Such as in the the Anime or Manga.).
The Anime often depicts Sludge Bomb as a wave, stream, ball or glob of sludge, often which explodes on contact/impact.

Here are all the Manga Chapters Bulbapedia notes Guzzlord as appearing in, if anyone wants to check:

The Final Match and a Surprising Finale!

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

PASM17 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

PASM18 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

PASM22 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

PASM24 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Summon the Emissaries of the Moon and the Sun

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Problematically, the range of human vision is about 4 KM. Guzzlord may be able to see further than that, given that it's 5.5 Meters in size (Why doesn't it have Large Size?) but whether that's enough depends: How far away does Vegeta usually use his ranged attacks from?
Guzzlord may have Planetary Range, but does that mean we know it can aim well at targets that far away?
Comparatively, Guzzlord is a much bigger target for Vegeta to hit, & while it may be able to dodge blasts, it has to notice they're coming. Although it eats seemingly practically anything, I don't know if it can eat energy blasts or not.


Other than attacking, its options include:
Stockpile: Each use boosts both its Physical & "Special" (Non-Physical) Defense by 50% of their unmodified base values, but it cannot acquire more than 3 such boosts using Stockpile.
Swallow: In gameplay, heals Guzzlord for 25%, 50%, or 100%, depending on if Guzzlord consumes 1, 2 or 3 Stockpile boosts to use Swallow. Using Swallow undoes the boosts it gained from Stockpile, but allows it to gain defensive boosts via Stockpile again. (So its Defenses will be at base again after using Swallow, & Stockpile's boosting limit is turned off.)
Stockpile is ostensibly useful, but how worthwhile this is to use depends on if Guzzlord's Stamina is good enough that healing can help it outlast Vegeta; If investing time & possibly effort into Stockpiling & Swallowing is a loss in an economy of action/stamina, etc....
Although, it's also questionable if Guzzlord is intelligent enough for such tactics.

Guzzlord's only other non-attacking moves are Wide Guard (As mentioned, it's used for blocking wide ranged attacks. So maybe it can protect against ki blasts?) & Gastro Acid, a non-damaging move that spews Guzzlord's Stomach Acid onto the target to negate the target's ability.

If Gastro Acid negates Vegeta's Flight or Energy Projection, those would probably be the biggest game changers. Are there other possible abilities it could negate?


So yeah, regarding Ranged & Non-Attacking moves, those are Guzzlord's options.


I hope that helps.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Guzzlord for his reasonings

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Not to mention his acid is pretty strong. And guzzlord uses belch most of the time

 

[Imaginym]

Guzzlord for his reasonings

Most of what I said wasn't necessarily in favor of Guzzlord.

Even if Planetary Range is accurate, & considering Guzzlord is 5.5 meters, it still needs to aim to hit Vegeta if Vegeta's far away, so how far away Vegeta prefers to attack from matters a lot, & Guzzlord's size -& it not being known to eat energy, unless there's evidence to the contrary- means it's an easier target for Vegeta than Vegeta is for Guzzlord.

If it hits Vegeta with Gastro Acid, it's devastating for Vegeta IF it Power Nullifies Vegata's Flight or Energy Projection, but I'm not sure what it will negate, if anything at all.

Snarl is in-character based on the Anime, & being sound-based &/or energy based, may be hard to avoid since it's more of a wave than a projectile; More importantly, Snarl will reduce Vegeta's non-Physical AP.

Stockpile is useful, as it get Guzzlord 3 Stages of boosts to its Defenses, but even +3 is only 2.5x (Base's 100% of Base, plus 3 instances of 50%, for each Defensive Stat.) Defenses. Can Vegeta handle that bulk?
& even if Vegeta can't, Guzzlord might throw away those boosts to use Swallow, which consumes all Stockpile Boosts present at once, & heals 25% for 1, 50% for 2, & 100% for 3. If Guzzlord doesn't use this wisely, or Vegeta can outdamage the healing it achieves, Stockpile &/or Swallow may be less effective.

Round is mediocre.
Dragon Rage & Fire Blast seem to be portrayed as avoidable, but at least Fire Blast can burn for residual damage, although I'd assume we consider Burn's attack reduction in-character.
Stone Edge, I'm not sure if it can hit aerial targets. To its credit, it seems to be some kind of homing danmaku/multi-projectile attack, in that all of the stones it summons are pointed to the foe, then launched. & it does have a boosted Critical Hit rate. But IDK even know why Guzzlord has that move on its profile; It's not a level-up move, nor do I know of it being used in the Anime or Manga. (If anyone can check the manga please, that'd be much appreciated.)
Sludge Bomb's chance to Poison is good.

Really, I'm not sure why Guzzlord has Round or Fire Blast or Sludge Bomb, either.

If it can do Belch without a Berry (That may be the case in the anime yet; IDK if that's how it was portrayed in the anime.), that might be a decent ranged attack. High power at least, maybe some spread.

Nonetheless, they're probably only relevant if, for some reason, Vegeta just stays out of range, as opposed to going into melee. At close range, Guzzlord would probably use different moves. Would Vegeta really constantly avoid melee? Why?

& I guess Guzzlord MIGHT heal slightly over time if it is indeed constantly eating, but I'm unsure if it can actually do that in combat, or if just eating regularly would heal it a notable amount.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Most of what I said wasn't necessarily in favor of Guzzlord.

Even if Planetary Range is accurate, & considering Guzzlord is 5.5 meters, it still needs to aim to hit Vegeta if Vegeta's far away, so how far away Vegeta prefers to attack from matters a lot, & Guzzlord's size -& it not being known to eat energy, unless there's evidence to the contrary- means it's an easier target for Vegeta than Vegeta is for Guzzlord.

If it hits Vegeta with Gastro Acid, it's devastating for Vegeta IF it Power Nullifies Vegata's Flight or Energy Projection, but I'm not sure what it will negate, if anything at all.

Snarl is in-character based on the Anime, & being sound-based &/or energy based, may be hard to avoid since it's more of a wave than a projectile; More importantly, Snarl will reduce Vegeta's non-Physical AP.

Stockpile is useful, as it get Guzzlord 3 Stages of boosts to its Defenses, but even +3 is only 2.5x (Base's 100% of Base, plus 3 instances of 50%, for each Defensive Stat.) Defenses. Can Vegeta handle that bulk?
& even if Vegeta can't, Guzzlord might throw away those boosts to use Swallow, which consumes all Stockpile Boosts present at once, & heals 25% for 1, 50% for 2, & 100% for 3. If Guzzlord doesn't use this wisely, or Vegeta can outdamage the healing it achieves, Stockpile &/or Swallow may be less effective.

Round is mediocre.
Dragon Rage & Fire Blast seem to be portrayed as avoidable, but at least Fire Blast can burn for residual damage, although I'd assume we consider Burn's attack reduction in-character.
Stone Edge, I'm not sure if it can hit aerial targets. To its credit, it seems to be some kind of homing danmaku/multi-projectile attack, in that all of the stones it summons are pointed to the foe, then launched. & it does have a boosted Critical Hit rate. But IDK even know why Guzzlord has that move on its profile; It's not a level-up move, nor do I know of it being used in the Anime or Manga. (If anyone can check the manga please, that'd be much appreciated.)
Sludge Bomb's chance to Poison is good.

Really, I'm not sure why Guzzlord has Round or Fire Blast or Sludge Bomb, either.

If it can do Belch without a Berry (That may be the case in the anime yet; IDK if that's how it was portrayed in the anime.), that might be a decent ranged attack. High power at least, maybe some spread.

Nonetheless, they're probably only relevant if, for some reason, Vegeta just stays out of range, as opposed to going into melee. At close range, Guzzlord would probably use different moves. Would Vegeta really constantly avoid melee? Why?

& I guess Guzzlord MIGHT heal slightly over time if it is indeed constantly eating, but I'm unsure if it can actually do that in combat, or if just eating regularly would heal it a notable amount.

Im not reading all that but Belch is what it uses a lot in the anime, and he used it without a berry

 

[Imaginym]

Im not reading all that but Belch is what it uses a lot in the anime, and he used it without a berry

The acid -Or whatever it is- does seem potent, although half the challenge may be just hitting Vegeta with it.
Does Vegeta have any Resistance to such things?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The acid -Or whatever it is- does seem potent, although half the challenge may be just hitting Vegeta with it.
Does Vegeta have any Resistance to such things?

no and what is vegeta finna do? he gets slapped

 

[Imaginym]

no and what is vegeta finna do? he gets slapped

Fly to a safe distance & keep away? Fire barrages of ki blasts to block the acid mid-air from his body? Flare his aura to block it, especially if his ki can achieve sufficient heat or levels of destructiveness? Heck, it didn't melt a wall fully, did it? So in theory, large enough rubble could block it.

Guzzlord also seems to need to have its range of where it can send that acid limited by where its mouth is facing to. (Even if that is a very wide area.)

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Fly to a safe distance & keep away? Fire barrages of ki blasts to block the acid mid-air from his body? Flare his aura to block it, especially if his ki can achieve sufficient heat or levels of destructiveness? Heck, it didn't melt a wall fully, did it? So in theory, large enough rubble could block it.

Guzzlord also seems to need to have its range of where it can send that acid limited by where its mouth is facing to. (Even if that is a very wide area.)

He tank

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[King_Clab]

Fly to a safe distance & keep away? Fire barrages of ki blasts to block the acid mid-air from his body? Flare his aura to block it, especially if his ki can achieve sufficient heat or levels of destructiveness?

Ki Blast is just life force energy right? So Guzzlord should resist since if I’m correct, Moves like Energy Ball, Thunder Bolt, Fire Blast and Dark Pulse are like Ki Energy or am I missing Something?
(Also Guzzlord Learns Stock Pile and Swallow via Level Up, which can let it heal and possibly outlast Vegeta)

 

[Imaginym]

Ki Blast is just life force energy right?

In Pokiemon, IIRC, Life Force Energy/Chi may be portrayed as Fighting-type. Aura Sphere, Lucario & such.

So Guzzlord should resist since if I’m correct, Moves like Energy Ball,

"The user draws power from nature and fires it at the foe. It may also lower the target’s Sp. Def."
Life Force Energy why?

Thunder Bolt, Fire Blast

Electricity Manipulation, Fire Manipulation.

and Dark Pulse

"The user releases a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts. It may also make the target flinch."
Aura, Darkness Manipulation, maybe Rage Power &/or Empathic Manipulation?

are like Ki Energy or am I missing Something?

Draining Kiss (Fairy-type) is also arguably Life Manipulation.
"The user steals the target’s energy with a kiss. The user’s HP is restored by over half of the damage taken by the target."
The technically unreleased move Light of Ruin is also Fairy-type & kind of Life Manipulation:
"Drawing power from the Eternal Flower, the user fires a powerful beam of light. This also damages the user quite a lot."
But that's because the fuel source is the Ultimate Weapon, fuelled by the lives of Pokemon, or Xerneas or Yveltal.
But again, Light of Ruin is unreleased, so it's highly questionable to count it, plus it's exclusive to a certain form of a certain Pokemon, which is also why it's unreleased.

Oblivion Wing also kinda counts, but it's not as generally applicable due to being the signature move of Yveltal, a Legendary Pokemon; The type may not be for what abilities to include, but to match the Pokemon it's exclusive to.

Absorb, Mega Drain & Giga Drain MIGHT count, but they're described as a "Nutrient-draining attack"? Life Manipulation? Organic Manipulation?
Leech Life speaks for itself:
"The user drains the target’s blood. The user’s HP is restored by half the damage taken by the target."

& there's Drain Punch:
"An energy-draining punch. The user’s HP is restored by half the damage taken by the target."


So, based on Aura Sphere, & aura being used by Pokemon, using Life Force Energy is Fighting-type. Drain Punch sort of supports this, but Draining Kiss (& Xerneas being the Life Pokemon who can grant eternal life & all that.) kinda supports Fairy-type.


Which would be unfortunate, because Guzzlord is weak to Fighting (2x), & even more weak to Fairy (4x).

But yes, which Pokemon types correlate to which abilities is a VERY MESSY RABBITHOLE TO DIVE INTO; I'd caution discussing it, because IIRC, the last time I got in-depth about it was in an unresolved, multiple-page CRT.

(Also Guzzlord Learns Stock Pile and Swallow via Level Up, which can let it heal and possibly outlast Vegeta)

Yeah I did bring those up. It depends what values the AP/Striking Strength & Durability of Vegeta & Guzzlord scale to; Being able to heal, say, 50% after using Stockpile twice & Swallow once is great, but it's worthless if in the time you spend using those 3 moves (Two Stockpiles, one Swallow.), you take more damage than you heal off. Sure, defensive boosts help mitigate that, but what if you only reach equilibrium; Stockpile however many times, heal, & you're not behind in the damage/stamina race, but you're not ahead, either?
If you haven't gotten ahead, you've technically accomplished nothing, so you better hope the other things that happened in that time benefit you; What if Vegeta learned your tricks or set up a way to get behind Guzzlord or something?

How useful Stockpile & Swallow are depends on whether or not Vegeta outdamages Guzzlord in the time spent using them. (Unless Guzzlord Stockpiles without Swallowing, but Guzzlord is constantly eating; Not Swallowing probably gets more & more Out of Character the longer things go on.)

 

[JustANormalLemon]

May I ask, If guzzlord is one shooting, is vegeta even damaging It?

 

[Noneless21]

May I ask, If guzzlord is one shooting, is vegeta even damaging It?

I think Guzzlord ain't oneshot vegeta given he'll immediately go super saiyan and get his 3-B rating

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I think Guzzlord ain't oneshot vegeta given he'll immediately go super saiyan and get his 3-B rating

Almost sure this would be a stomp if vegeta could go to this form... or at least the OP stated vegeta in his first key, so no other keys used unless stated

 

[Noneless21]

Almost sure this would be a stomp if vegeta could go to this form... or at least the OP stated vegeta in his first key, so no other keys used unless stated

The OP stated that Vegeta has info bout Guzzlord's stat so he knew bout Guzzlord's almost 3-B stat

 

[Arceus0x]

Pretty sure even without the 3-B transfotmation Vegeta is near 3-B, higher than Guzzlord

 

[Noneless21]

The OP stated that first key vegeta is used ans he has 3-C but with 3-B with transformation

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Oh, ok.... I miss readed the debate untill now

 

[Arceus0x]

3-C key is already above Guzzlord, 3-B + knowledge is stomp^2

 

[JustANormalLemon]

3-C key is already above Guzzlord, 3-B + knowledge is stomp^2

Mostly likle

 

[Noneless21]

3-C key is already above Guzzlord, 3-B + knowledge is stomp^2

That....... is the thread maker's decision to change it or not

 

[Imaginym]

3-C key is already above Guzzlord, 3-B + knowledge is stomp^2

Despite that Guzzlord is rated at At least 3-C, likely High 3-A ?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Despite that Guzzlord is rated at At least 3-C, likely High 3-A ?

3-C is beingh used

 

[Noneless21]

Despite that Guzzlord is rated at At least 3-C, likely High 3-A ?

I think high 3-A is because the universe statement really, beside we're using his 3-C rating for now

 

[Arceus0x]

Despite that Guzzlord is rated at At least 3-C, likely High 3-A ?

What?

 

[Arceus0x]

That....... is the thread maker's decision to change it or not

It isn't. Like it is but at the same time it isn't. The only decision he gets is either change the rules or have his thread closed because it's a stomp

 

[Noneless21]

It isn't. Like it is but at the same time it isn't. The only decision he gets is either change the rules or have his thread closed because it's a stomp

well, he lost interest in it it seems sooooooo let it die

 

[Arceus0x]

well, he lost interest in it it seems sooooooo let it die

Let it die let it die♪

 

[Noneless21]

Just like me dying to Wigglytuff

 

[Arceus0x]

Just like me dying to Wigglytuff

[Insert Alpha Wigglytuff giga-impacting at you]