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Upgrading the Dagon's Level to 2-A

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updated for now.

Agree: Quang230, Firestorm808 (power absorption), Ghengiroo115, Lovemovies14, Lord_Farquaad69420 (Above the Chronosapien bomb), DarkDragonMedeus (with Firestorm's opinion)

Disagree: Reiner04

Neutral:
 
Firestorm808 said:
Should Dagon scale to the potential AP of the Alpha Rune?

Eh, not really, since we don't see the results of the completed transaction. I mean, Dagon would have power absorption but no signifier of AP.

"Power to rule your universe" - Doesn't really tell us anything except being above the local powers. You could potentially argue being above other Tier 2 tech.

"Create whatever universe he imagines" - It's kinda ambiguous as to how this is done. Presumably, he has Dagon's abilities and mind control to change how the people are.

Wait. Since when did Dagon have Reality Warping on the profile?
Click to expand...
Could you please tell me your opinion about this thread again?
NXCHT.66 said:
updated for now.

Agree: Quang230, Firestorm808 (power absorption), Ghengiroo115, Lovemovies14, Lord_Farquaad69420 (Above the Chronosapien bomb), DarkDragonMedeus ( with Firestorm's opinion)

Disagree: Reiner04

Neutral:
Click to expand...
Is this correct for you?
 
It's kind of weird because there seems to be statements that Ascalon and Dagon are stronger than CTP and Omnitrix self-destruct.
  1. Vilgax stated that Ascalon is the greatest power that he has felt, even when he's in possession of the CTB since 1700's, and he knew what CTB's power.
  2. Azmuth stated that Ascalon is the only weapon capable of defeat Dagon, and he should know about CTB.
  3. Dagon stated he has power stronger than Ascalon, and even he can give Vilgax a infinite power.
So Ascalon and Dagon should be the strongest CTB or no?
 
REX9097 said:
It's kind of weird because there seems to be statements that Ascalon and Dagon are stronger than CTP and Omnitrix self-destruct.
  1. Vilgax stated that Ascalon is the greatest power that he has felt, even when he's in possession of the CTB since 1700's, and he knew what CTB's power.
  2. Azmuth stated that Ascalon is the only weapon capable of defeat Dagon, and he should know about CTB.
  3. Dagon stated he has power stronger than Ascalon, and even he can give Vilgax a infinite power.
So Ascalon and Dagon should be the strongest CTB or no?
Click to expand...
Would that mean Ultimate Waybig, Atomix and Eatle scale above CTB too? And Chromastone died absorbing something which wasn't even Low 2-C. So how does this make sense?
I personally think CTB > Ascalon and Dagon
 
Hellformer said:
Would that mean Ultimate Waybig, Atomix and Eatle scale above CTB too?
Click to expand...
No, this would be only scale to 2-A, but not mean is above CTB (All of them were defeated by Dagon except Atomix was not present and there is no prove that he is stronger than Ascalon).
Hellformer said:
And Chromastone died absorbing something which wasn't even Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
This is as if you are saying that Feedback cannot absorb 1-B or that Chromastone cannot absorb 4-B AP, although Chromastone is explained that when it absorbs a large amount of energy, its power becomes greater, like Feedback:
  1. Like Sugilite which is a Crystalsapien type when absorbing the Back-up Crystal it becomes stronger than before and is able to create Petropia again, the Back-up Crystal also gives Sugilite a infinite power when absorbed which should also give Chromastone the ability to absorb the Back-up Crystal as well.
  2. When fighting Dagon you can see that Chromastone's normal attacks before absorption are weak against Dagon and even when his power increases after absorbing Mana Dagon is not affected unlike when he absorbs Dagon's attacks Chromastone becomes able to harming him.
 
REX9097 said:
No, this would be only scale to 2-A, but not mean is above CTB (All of them were defeated by Dagon except Atomix was not present and there is no prove that he is stronger than Ascalon).
Click to expand...
Then fine, considering even Atomic-X scales relative to Dagon but still died to CTB.
REX9097 said:
This is as if you are saying that Feedback cannot absorb 1-B or that Chromastone cannot absorb 4-B AP, although Chromastone is explained that when it absorbs a large amount of energy, its power becomes greater, like Feedback:
Click to expand...
I'm mainly talking about the maximum limit. For Feedback it is 1-B and for Chromastone it's an unknown exact amount but we can consider him dying to Charmcaster's device which wasn't 2-A
REX9097 said:
  1. Like Sugilite which is a Crystalsapien type when absorbing the Back-up Crystal it becomes stronger than before and is able to create Petropia again, the Back-up Crystal also gives Sugilite a infinite power when absorbed which should also give Chromastone the ability to absorb the Back-up Crystal as well.
Click to expand...
The infinite power seems extremely vague and not considered to be High 3-A on this wiki yet. I personally think this is a hyperbole because Neither Chromastone nor Sugilite have shown feats of this range
REX9097 said:
  1. When fighting Dagon you can see that Chromastone's normal attacks before absorption are weak against Dagon and even when his power increases after absorbing Mana Dagon is not affected unlike when he absorbs Dagon's attacks Chromastone becomes able to harming him.
Click to expand...
I agree with Chromastone's known limit scaling to Dagon's AP. But that AP must be lower than what Chromastone experienced before when he died to Charmcaster's device.
 
Last edited:
NXCHT.66 said:
updated for now.

Agree: Quang230, Firestorm808 (power absorption), Ghengiroo115, Lovemovies14, Lord_Farquaad69420 (Above the Chronosapien bomb), DarkDragonMedeus (with Firestorm's opinion)

Disagree: Reiner04

Neutral:
Click to expand...
bump to check the accuracy of the votes.
 
Why has only Dagon been upgraded, not the Alpha Rune in Charmcaster's profile page?

And why has Dagon been upgraded to 2-A, rather than the uncertain 2-B or 2-A value mentioned above, exactly?

Also, no explanation for Dagon's statistics was provided within his page, and did @Firestorm808 and @DarkDragonMedeus truly agree with this revision?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Dagon (Ben 10)

Dagon is an extra-dimensional demonic entity who tried to invade this dimension with the help of his Lucubra army during Earth's medieval era. He was banished back to his dimension when Sir George defeated him by cutting out his heart with Ascalon, a powerful weapon given to him by Azmuth nearly...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
I'll leave it to Firestorm. I mostly agreed with things he said, but if there are flaws with the page updating. Maybe that's a different story. But I'll wait for what he has to say.
 
Thank you for your reply. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
And why has Dagon been upgraded to 2-A, rather than the uncertain 2-B or 2-A value mentioned above, exactly?
Click to expand...
This thread was posted at a time when the Ben 10 universe was still rated 2-B, possibly 2-A. But the Ben 10 universe has now been changed to a 2-A rating by Firestorm. The Dagon's profile must therefore be adjusted to the present.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10 Cosmology

This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the show. It will go over the Each Term and what each term mean and their supposed Inconsistencies...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Okay. Understood. Thank you for the explanation. 🙏

Charmcaster's page has not been updated though, and I am not sure why transforming the universe would scale to 2-A.
 
Antvasima said:
Charmcaster's page has not been updated though
Click to expand...
Will carry out the work when I have enough time. I apologize

Antvasima said:
I am not sure why transforming the universe would scale to 2-A.
Click to expand...
It is a result of this CRT.
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Space beyond (Low 1-C upgrade)

Before starting with the arguments, let's revise the tiering system FAQ (Note: This portion of the FAQ is the same as new one made by Ultima, check it over here) The relationship between the spatial dimensions of a universe and the additional temporal dimension(s) may be visualized as something...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Well, you should have started with updating the Alpha Rune, given that it is what Dagon scales from. Also, the reasons for its 2-A power level need to be summarised within Charmcaster's page.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, you should have started with updating the Alpha Rune, given that it is what Dagon scales from. Also, the reasons for its 2-A power level need to be summarised within Charmcaster's page.
Click to expand...
I doubt how Alpha rune even scales to 2-A but let's wait for the guys who came up with reasonings
 
Hellformer said:
@NXCHT.66 Shouldn't this also upscale Ascalon with Dagon's powers as well?
Click to expand...
sure. it will be accompanied by a scaling thread that I will be doing in the future.

Hellformer said:
I doubt how Alpha rune even scales to 2-A but let's wait for the guys who came up with reasonings
Click to expand...
some parts have already been described in the OP. (with scan)
Gendolfgg1 said:
We know that this dimension contains ALL the magic of the universe, that is, ALL the power of the Universe, all its energy - all mana. We also know that mana extends across the universe to higher dimensions.
Click to expand...
There is also more explanation about Legerdomain and Alpha Rune

• The Legerdomain is an interdimensional realm to be the place from which all magic in the universe flows. (The universe is an infinite space that contains infinite number of dimensions) and this might mean it has time in itself.
Time moves faster in Legerdomain than it does on Earth: minutes on Earth can amount to days in Legerdomain.
Click to expand...

• Charmcaster claims that the Alpha Rune is a source of ultimate power in Legerdomain.

• The wearer control over magic itself and dominion over Legerdomain, the dimension from which all of the magic in the universe flows.

• The one who wields it has power over magic itself and control over the realm of magic itself.

• Alpha Rune also serves as a kind of stabilizer for the realm of Legerdomain, as removing it from the realm or removing part of its power can cause the Legerdomain to become unstable and crumble.

• Alpha Rune has been proven to contain enormous amounts of mana.
as demonstrated by Zs'skayr, Zs'skayr attempts to absorb the mana from the Alpha Rune in order to revive Lord Transyl
(in Ben 10 Omniverse Season 5 episode 8
name of episode is The Vampire Strikes Back)
even though Zs'skayr had absorbed a large amount of mana from the Alpha Rune, but it still had enough more power left for Charmcaster to use against Ben.)

so, whoever holds the Alpha Rune receives all the power of the Alpha Rune. and over control Legerdomain freely, too. as demonstrated by Charmcaster.
 
I also added this to Dagonax (since Vilgax absorb all of Dagon's power).
vsbattles.fandom.com

Vilgax

Vilgax is an intergalactic alien warlord and conqueror, a Chimera Sui Generis who serves as Ben's archenemy, and the most recurring villain in the on-going franchise. He was introduced in And Then There Were 10, and has since appeared multiple times in all the series. Ben considers him as one of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Charmcaster's profile will be updated in the next 40+ hours. sorry for the delay.

For this.
Quang230 said:
Ben profile will also upgrade right since he use Ascalon to absorb Dagon power from Vilgax
Click to expand...
REX9097 said:
I also added this to Dagonax (since Vilgax absorb all of Dagon's power).
vsbattles.fandom.com

Vilgax

Vilgax is an intergalactic alien warlord and conqueror, a Chimera Sui Generis who serves as Ben's archenemy, and the most recurring villain in the on-going franchise. He was introduced in And Then There Were 10, and has since appeared multiple times in all the series. Ben considers him as one of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Do we need to have a new thread for scaling first? If it's not necessary, I'm okay
 
2-A is just when Dagon has the souls, right? In that case then I don’t see why Ben with Ascalon would have 2-A.
 
Hellformer said:
He gets 2-A with power absorption just like Feedback has 1-B rating with energy absorption
Click to expand...
Wait, are we saying that Ben gets all of Dagon’s abilities? Because I’m not sure if that’s the case and I don’t think that’s something currently accepted either. Might be wrong though.
 
Also I just realised, isn’t Power Absorption the wrong ability to add? Power Absorption is absorbing someone’s abilities, which Dagon doesn’t do.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Wait, are we saying that Ben gets all of Dagon’s abilities? Because I’m not sure if that’s the case and I don’t think that’s something currently accepted either. Might be wrong though.
Click to expand...
First, we know that Vilgax has both Dagon's powers and abilities. We know because the serie clearly shown us.

Second, as Hellformer said
Hellformer said:
Technically should get
Click to expand...

and we can know more from the context in the serie.
Ben: Don't be such a baby. I just took Dagon's power from you.

Vilgax: Then you are a fool. You have the Ultimatrix, the Sword of Azmuth and the power of Dagon at your fingertips.

Ben: Yeah? So?

afterward, Vilgax explains what Ben is capable to do of with the power he has, such as Take the universe in hands and mold it to will or Can create whatever universe he imagines. which Ben will finally say I really could.
Click to expand...

this context indicates that Ben recognizes that he has Dagon's power within himself.
 
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