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Upgrades For X.C.O.M

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Because somebody finally started Making X.C.O.M pages, I'm gonna give all the stats I've found.

First, let's start off with AP:

From The first game's Sectopod Autopsy, "The engineering advancements found in this machine are remarkable - the joint articulation, weapons systems and targeting capabilities in particular are well beyond current military developments on Earth. The practical applications are staggering."

This implies that The Sectopod is more powerful than average bombs. So that would make Sectopod City Block level. And considering with advanced armor other characters can tank attacks from it, this would scale to them.

Not to mention that some of the tougher aliens From Xcom 1 Are able to tank blows from a rocket launcher.

However, let's ignore Xcom 1 because I know that some people will say "But it was all a simulation."

Okay. So how about this:

In Xcom 2, Xcom has shot down 2 UFOs in canon. And the UFOs in Xcom 2 should be just as durable as the ones from the first game. Well these grenades can tear right through the plating which is able to tank missiles. Even Sectopods can walk right through them.

And let's not Forget the fact that Xcom has missile launchers that can also tear through said hull and there's no evidence suggesting that the UFO uses shields.

Now you could argue this is game play mechanics, but this is a game where everything is completely gameplay mechanics. One could also argue that they weakened their UFOs. But there's no logical reason as to why they would do this. They were preparing for a war against beings who curbstomped them before. If anything, they would want to strengthen their UFO's and weaponry

Now onto Speed:

Pretty much everyone In Xcom 2 can dodge magnetic weaponry at near point blank range. The shooters missing at that closs of a range is literally impossible unless it gets dodged. Even if you argue that they did somehow miss the dodge stat is a thing)

Considering people like the Ranger can still hit people with these reactions, all of the Xcom Soldiers should in one way or another scale. Giving them a speed of at least Supersonic reactions.
 
Here's the aliens dodging XCOM fire:Missed[1]The[2] Target[3] (XCOM will give Stormtroopers a run for their money sometimes). Here's XCOM shooting down a UFO[4]. Here's a Sectopod moving through an Alien ship[5].
 
Colonel Krukov said:
Here's the aliens dodging XCOM fire:Missed[1]The[2] Target[3] (XCOM will give Stormtroopers a run for their money sometimes). Here's XCOM shooting down a UFO[4]. Here's a Sectopod moving through an Alien ship[5].
Thanks BTW For Linking videos of the feats I REALLY SHOULD have done that but i forgot *face palms*
 
Dbfan and critic said:
Thanks BTW For Linking videos of the feats I REALLY SHOULD have done that but i forgot *face palms*
No Problem
 
I am afraid that the above text is mostly too incoherently written for me to make proper sense of it.

Dodging fire at close range seems more useful, but somebody would likely have to calculate it.
 
I don't really have an opinion on this thread, but I have attempted to revise its grammar to make it more readable.
 
No problem. Let's see if others understand/agree with these points now.
 
Anyway, it would help if somebody would post images of the UFO's that the grenades and missile launchers were able to damage.

What do you know about the strength of the missiles that the UFO hulls were able to withstand?
 
http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/File:Small_Scout_River_1_(EU2012).png

here is the best Picture I could find (Note I only used the small Scout because otherwise, these are the only ones we know Are for sure shot down in Xcom 1 And thus are the only ones that would scale to Xcom 2 and I used the Landed Variety because Even landed and not shot down Ufo hulls can have their Hulls destroyed by Grenades and Rockets)

And As for the Missiles

Well We know they are Air To Air Warheads (currently trying to find the average payload of our Current Air to Air warheads) Designed to bring down Ufo's With the best tracking equipment Currently on earth

Also Sorry for my poor grammar
 
Okay. No problem. If you, or somebody else, can find the TNT payload of an average air to air warhead, that would help a lot.
 
Most of the warheads had a 22 lb blast fragmentation (here). I converted it here to be about 7.1 megatons or City level. Although somewhat unreliable, wikipedia confirms this here.
 
@Colonel Krukov: You did the conversion wrong (no air to air missle is as powerful as a nuclear weapon, except it IS a nuclear weapon)

Your result was 7.1290618698114E-15 (you missed the E-15 there), which is 0.0000000000000071290618698114 Mt, but that isn't exactly correct either since 22 lb is the weight of the warhead, not ft-lb (simply a different unit)

Let's take a look at the typical air to air missles in this table.

All in all 11kg warhead probably sounds like a good guess (even a bit more than your suggestion).

Now we have to assume an explosive. I have no idea to be honest.

TNT would be 11kg TNT or 0.011 tons. C4 would be around 0.01485 tons of tnt.

Both of which is Room or Small Building level, which sounds realistic for your average missle.
 
Okay. Thank you to DontTalk for correcting this. "At least Small Building level" then.
 
This calc shows no significant change to the current AP of the Sectopods, however this shows how effective the armaments are in game and this shows the stats of the ship. It shows that it's capable of withstanding damage twice of what an ordinary missile can deliver. Not sure if this changes anything but it's worth a look.
 
Colonel Krukov said:
This calc shows no significant change to the current AP of the Sectopods, however this shows how effective the armaments are in game and this shows the stats of the ship. It shows that it's capable of withstanding damage twice of what an ordinary missile can deliver. Not sure if this changes anything but it's worth a look.
Well, to be honest, The Difference between beginning of game and end of game tech is Large And considering sectopods com end of game when you have plasma Weaponry and grenades which vastly outstrip BoG grenades it's quite possible that it's AP and durability could be higher.
 
Which is why you can write "'''At least''' Small Building level".
 
Changes are made, should I put a request in the calc thread for the speed feats?
 
Colonel Krukov said:
Changes are made, should I put a request in the calc thread for the speed feats?
Wait Shouldn't anybody who can survive a grenade (Advanced advent troopers Advent captains Chrysalids ECT) also be upgraded to small building level (I'm iffy on the At least for the One's i just mentioned)
 
Dbfan and critic said:
Wait Shouldn't anybody who can survive a grenade (Advanced advent troopers Advent captains Chrysalids ECT) also be upgraded to small building level (I'm iffy on the At least for the One's i just mentioned)
I would only put regular grenades at Wall level and plasma grenades at Room level. I could change XCOM EU/EW chryssalids to Wall level, XCOM 2 'lids to Room level. Could change Elite ADVENT Troopers to Room level as well.
 
Colonel Krukov said:
Dbfan and critic said:
Wait Shouldn't anybody who can survive a grenade (Advanced advent troopers Advent captains Chrysalids ECT) also be upgraded to small building level (I'm iffy on the At least for the One's i just mentioned)
I would only put regular grenades at Wall level and plasma grenades at Room level. I could change XCOM EU/EW chryssalids to Wall level, XCOM 2 'lids to Room level. Could change Elite ADVENT Troopers to Room level as well.
But here's the thing Unless the grenades in Xcom 2 And the ones from Xcom 1 are diffrent grenades (which their's no reason to suspect they are) they can tear through the Hull of the Ufo So they should scale to the Small building level stuff

Even then Plasma grenades can Do the same thing in 2 (which again we have no reason to suspect the ufo is at all less durable) So Their's no reason that the toughest advent troopers Shouldn't be small building level.
 
XCOM 1 and 2 frag and plasma/alien grenades do an identical amount of damage as each other so they're basically the same. I don't think that they can pierce the exterior hull and even if they could it wouldn't make sense; the standard frag grenades AP match perfectly to a rookie's durability, so you're basically saying that rookies are about Small Building level.
 
Colonel Krukov said:
XCOM 1 and 2 frag and plasma/alien grenades do an identical amount of damage as each other so they're basically the same. I don't think that they can pierce the exterior hull and even if they could it wouldn't make sense; the standard frag grenades AP match perfectly to a rookie's durability, so you're basically saying that rookies are about Small Building level.
Yes the Grenades can Peirce the exterior of a Ufo hull I've done it countless times in Enemy within And I've seen it done in Xcom 2

And You do realize Rookies wear The best armor Humanity can Offer right? (kinda need to)

plus i don't really go with HP Scaling

I go with whether they can survive it or not

But If we wanna go with Damage/Hp scaling I would like to point out that The toughest advent unit can tank A regular rocket

Which is stronger than The the Xcom 1 Rocket (Which again Can pierce through hulls of Ufos) by about 1 point of damage well the damage is between 4-7 But the toughest advent trooper has 11 HP On legendary which i've already explained why i think is cannon but they have 8 Hp even on the Lowest difficulty so doesn't matter either wayA

and advanced troopers Have about 6 HP on the easiest difficulty 9 on the hardest and more with the alloy plating

SO Small building level Elite advent troopers and Advanced Advent troopers No matter how you slice it

Oh also "wouldn't make sense" Rookies can dodge point blank Plasma shots Point blank Magnetic rounds

and point blank gunfire Just saying it Wouldn't make sense that these obviously super human rookies Couldn't have above average durability Is well kinda Nonsensical in of itself
 
Rookies only have standard military gear at the start of the game so there's no way they're Small Building level. Even at the highest difficulty you can one shot a Elite Trooper with a critical hit from a normal shotgun. I'm gonna leave this for other people to decide. I personally think it should stay at Room level but I'm not gonna debate this further and if other people don't agree I don't mind it getting changed.

@Ant I already requested it, fingers crossed for a response. Thanks though for the heads up anyway! :)
 
Colonel Krukov said:
Rookies only have standard military gear at the start of the game so there's no way they're Small Building level. Even at the highest difficulty you can one shot a Elite Trooper with a critical hit from a normal shotgun. I'm gonna leave this for other people to decide. I personally think it should stay at Room level but I'm not gonna debate this further and if other people don't agree I don't mind it getting changed.
@Ant I already requested it, fingers crossed for a response. Thanks though for the heads up anyway! :)
I know your not Debating this further but

what i ment was they have the best armor that Humans can make without the alien's tech

Also This would mean the sectopod blaster is Just Room level as well insted of the Building level you put it at

Because it only does 11 damage at max so yeah
 
If Elite troopers are Small Building level durability what do you think of the below changes?

  • The Commander - Small Building level with psi Rifle (Attack Potency)
  • Chryssalid EU/EW - Room level (Durability), Mind control resistance (Abilities)
  • Chryssalid XCOM 2 - Small Building level (Durability), Berserk Users (Tag)
(should be noted that a Chryssalids' armour is 4x stronger than carbon nanotube weaving)

  • Faceless - Small Building level (Durability)
  • Sectopod EU/EW - Below Average Human/Human (speed), Peak Human (Stamina)
  • Sectopod XCOM 2 - Below Average Human/Human (speed), Peak Human (Stamina), About Small Building level with Sectopod Blaster, Small Building level with Lightning field (Attack Potency), Gains defensive bonuses and increased aim when an attack fails (feats), At least City Block level (more durable than an Avatar)
  • ADVENT Trooper - Wall level (Attack Potency)
  • ADVENT Advanced Trooper - Room level (Durability), Room level (Attack Potency)
  • ADVENT Elite Trooper - Room level (Attack Potency), Small Building level (Durability)
 
Room level and Small Building level are different names for the same tier.
 
@DBFan and Critic Please do not quote large walls of text as it unnecessarily spams the thread and makes it harder to read.
 
@DBfan and Critic. It's no big deal. But still try not to do it. Thank you.
 
Small thing i'd like to mention is i'm probably gonna try to calculate The XCOM operatives and aliens bullet timing Soon
 
Right now i'm just trying to compile a good Amount of footage for the feat as i'm trying to get point blank misses and dodges

but On a side note while watching each Frame by frame

I've noticed Advent reacting to balistic gunfire and magnetic gunfire with in Mear frames of the gun going off

An advent trooper reacted to the first bullet 5 frames after it was fired (note the sonic boom probably hadn't hit him yet and he was reacting to the gunbarral flash) and the average human reacts to visual stimuli at about .25 seconds

This trooper reacted in .20 seconds

the fastest a Human has reacted is .10

SO peak human troopers just based on animation

and

An advent Lancer Reacted to a pistol firing a mear Frame After it fired or .04 Seconds

thus putting Advent lancers Literally 5x Faster than the average human reaction time and ~2 times faster than the fastest human reaction time and keep in mind this is just based On Visual Reactions in the game that could easily just be a lag in animation (Since the same lag happens even when they dodge said rounds)

both clips are here http://rowvid.com/?v=6jYFm9P1d8w (0:21 for the advent lancer and 0:32 for the trooper respectivly) Meaning at least for now we Should be able to Their reaction's to superhuman
 
Can I make the necessary changes, or should I wait for more input/a full speed calc?
 
Well, I think that the changes that you proposed mostly seemed fine, but Room level and Small Building level still mean the same thing.
 
Changes are made, just waiting on that speed calc if it arrives that is.
 
Can I change the Chryssalids Stamina? It's only a "minor" edit but I don't want to make changes and risk a warning; I plan to create a vs page and I don't want to seem suspicious by changing information before creating a VS page.

  • Chryssalid EU/EW - Superhuman+
  • Chryssalid XCOM 2 - Superhuman
If you want any reasoning behind their stats, they are known for running around the battlefield covering distances about equal to a late game XCOM soldier.
 
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