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Pretty much this.Squid peanut said:it's less "this amount of attack corilates to this amount of force" and more " this reliable analyzer is gauging the abilities of this individual as higher than another individual that we roughly know the capabilities of."
Except Papyrus does keep up with Frisk. He's a relatively easy boss, but that doesn't mean he's that weak, in game. Almost everyone dies in one-hit when Chara's in control. Mettaton NEO is vastly superior to Asgore, and he still goes down in one blow.CyberGhost42 said:Instead of making a new topic I'm going to post this here.
Papyrus should have his speed downgraded.
At the moment his speed is "Speed: Relativistic+ (Capable of keeping up with Frisk in combat)" which is all fine and dandy, except he doesn't keep up with Frisk.
In a Bad Time run he dies with one hit, which isn't keeping up.
Papyrus also doesn't keep up in a pacifist/neutral run, the start of the battle Frisk needs to actively move into his attacks to be hit, and after the blue attack Frisk's movement is restricted so this shouldn't be used to powerscale.
Even when blue Frisk usually only takes damage due to bad timing, getting caught on a wall or being caught off guard (just after the blue attack when playing for the first time for example). Even the above examples Frisk gets hit not due to Papyrus's speed but rather player awareness. Though awareness is subjective as it is based on players.
No, that's like saying a character who can keep up with a caracter's base form is on par with that character's base form. I'm not arguing Papyrus is immeasurable, but that fighting against Frisk (even though Papyrus was holding back and didn't want to hurt Frisk) should mean he's at least somewhat comparable to Frisk's speed.CyberGhost42 said:Claiming that no characters keep up with Frisk is not an argument thathe is able to keep up with Frisk.
My argument is focused on the Neutral route where Frisk doesn't even have to move to avoid Papyrus's attacks until Frisk's movement becomes restricted. Even if Papyrus could keep up, keeping up with a movement restricted character should not be scaled to keeping up with the same character as if they were unrestricted. This is like saying a character can beat Tenchi Masaki's base form therefore they can beat Kami Tenchi.
Except his blue attacks. Frisk had to stay still, but they still couldn't dodge them.CyberGhost42 said:Except he couldn't damage Frisk's base form until he restricted Frisk's movement unless Frisk got in the way of his attacks.
As for him holding back, not showing a feat is not a reason to give that character a feat.
Which Frisk still would have been able to dodge if they were as absurdly faster than Papyrus as you were suggesting. He'd have been moving in slow motion.CyberGhost42 said:His blue attack couldn't be dodged partially because it is an aoe skill in a confined space.
As for everyone else, the only person whom has shown to be able to actually keep up with Frisk is Sans. Unless you expect a Moldsmal to be faster than the speed of sound.
Fairly certain Mettaton did, as Frisk's life was in significant peril, at the time.Squid peanut said:Papyrus does not or really anyone else who isn't Undyne, Asgore, or Toriel technically
Because everyone there was a legitimate threat that could have significantly harmed Frisk, as well as a set encounter (except Tem, who's only a possibility).CyberGhost42 said:And Temmie, Greater Dog, Lesser Dog, Muffet, Doggo.
Tsundreplane is literally the only character from Undertale on this Wiki that hasn't been scaled to relativistic+.
As for Legitimate threats, none are in Geno run and in pacifist, using your own argument, Frisk is holding back.
CyberGhost42 said:Regular Undyne doesn't melt, her body splits apart until she pulls it back together with Determination. No monsters in Undertale melt except those known to have Determination to my knowledge, the game states monsters instantly turn to ash on death.
Undyne, in her second form, started to melt after the battle due to her Determination then died from the battle while she was melting.
From a gameplay perspective, yes. However, that's more him going meta and breaking the rules of reality than everyone else actually just standing in place.LordXcano said:Doesn't Sans say he can dodge only because he's the only character that decided to move? I think that'd put a dent in X Character being able to keep up with Frisk.
If you're referring to Flowey, the flower body he uses is from the overworld. Or are you reffering to another?Squid peanut said:immense amounts of Determination in a monster's body causes them to lose solidity very quickly, however determination on par with a human soul allows them to maintain a solid form.
Considering the Determination in the second form gives her new armor, more defence, heals her wound, speeds her up, replaces her eye with a laser. Most likely no. She's the same person, but with a Determination upgrade.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:Isn't second form Undyne just regular Undyne?
As in a human soul?Squid peanut said:I think they should have a simular durability to a soul, since all they are is determination forcing monsters to stay alive and their bodies can't maintai
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:As in a human soul?Squid peanut said:I think they should have a simular durability to a soul, since all they are is determination forcing monsters to stay alive and their bodies can't maintai
Because their defense is listed at 9999, which is 10 times superior to Mettaton, and 100 times superior to Undyne the Undying.