Undertale scaling inconsistencies

[Funnimane]

brought this up in another thread but it should probably be it's own thing
profiles in question: Frisk, Sans, Flowey (sorta)

Sans(' telekinesis) is 9-A for dealing 1 damage to "at least 9-A, likely far higher" Geno-Frisk by slamming them into walls, although this can't kill them even if they're at 1 HP.
Full-power Paci-Frisk is "at least 8-B" for utilizing the full power of their soul, but can only deal "minimum" damage (1-20+) to "at least 8-A, likely far higher" PS Flowey.

You could argue that Flowey is weakened at those later points in the fight because most of the souls are dimmed out and that's how Frisk can deal more damage, but,

1. at the end of the fight when all of the souls start helping Frisk, you're notified that Flowey is weakened with a "Flowey's DEFENSE dropped to 0". You don't get anything like that during the rest of the fight.
2. dealing 1 damage at 6 souls, 20 damage at 1, and hundreds of damage at 0 is extremely disproportionate.

For another consistent explanation that fits with the logic this wiki accepts for Undertale, Frisk is simply getting more determined and thus more powerful throughout the fight. This is seen at the end of the fight as well, when we know Flowey can't be getting any weaker, but Frisk still gradually deals more damage overtime. They start off dealing 100+ damage, then work up to 200+ then 300+, and finally 700+ for the final blow. For other examples of Frisk getting stronger throughout a fight, there's Asgore where the same thing happens, and a similar thing with Asriel, where at the beginning Frisk is taking decent damage from basic attacks and at the end, Asriel deals decimal points to them with a full-power attack.

Thusly, it seems that the power-gap between Sans and Geno-Frisk is wider than the gap between Paci-Frisk and Flowey, yet Sans and Geno-Frisk are in the same tier and Paci-Frisk and Flowey are one tier apart. To be more consistent with scaling, either Sans should be downgraded or Paci-Frisk should be upgraded to downscale from Flowey.

Something else I just thought of that's also to do with scaling,
Paci-Frisk deals at most 700+ damage to 0 defense Flowey.
LV 11 Geno-Frisk deals 1000+ damage to 99 defense Undying.
By the game's own logic, which is accepted as canon for Undertale, Geno-Frisk should upscale from Paci-Frisk :v

It may seem to not make sense for mid-game Geno-Frisk or Undying to be on a higher level than Paci-Frisk while fighting a six-souled near-god, but LV 20 dead Chara, who has either one soul or none, can erase the universe with one strike, equaling the power of seven souls. And Undying was fueled by Determination in her Geno fight, which as shown in the GOH Asriel fight, can even hold up against a seven-souled being if potent enough, so this would still make sense according to in-universe logic.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Sigh.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

brought this up in another thread but it should probably be it's own thing
profiles in question: Frisk, Sans, Flowey (sorta)

Sans(' telekinesis) is 9-A for dealing 1 damage to "at least 9-A, likely far higher" Geno-Frisk by slamming them into walls, although this can't kill them even if they're at 1 HP.
Full-power Paci-Frisk is "at least 8-B" for utilizing the full power of their soul, but can only deal "minimum" damage (1-20+) to "at least 8-A, likely far higher" PS Flowey.

You could argue that Flowey is weakened at those later points in the fight because most of the souls are dimmed out and that's how Frisk can deal more damage, but,

1. at the end of the fight when all of the souls start helping Frisk, you're notified that Flowey is weakened with a "Flowey's DEFENSE dropped to 0". You don't get anything like that during the rest of the fight.
2. dealing 1 damage at 6 souls, 20 damage at 1, and hundreds of damage at 0 is extremely disproportionate.

For another consistent explanation that fits with the logic this wiki accepts for Undertale, Frisk is simply getting more determined and thus more powerful throughout the fight. This is seen at the end of the fight as well, when we know Flowey can't be getting any weaker, but Frisk still gradually deals more damage overtime. They start off dealing 100+ damage, then work up to 200+ then 300+, and finally 700+ for the final blow. For other examples of Frisk getting stronger throughout a fight, there's Asgore where the same thing happens, and a similar thing with Asriel, where at the beginning Frisk is taking decent damage from basic attacks and at the end, Asriel deals decimal points to them with a full-power attack.

Thusly, it seems that the power-gap between Sans and Geno-Frisk is wider than the gap between Paci-Frisk and Flowey, yet Sans and Geno-Frisk are in the same tier and Paci-Frisk and Flowey are one tier apart. To be more consistent with scaling, either Sans should be downgraded or Paci-Frisk should be upgraded to downscale from Flowey.

Something else I just thought of that's also to do with scaling,
Paci-Frisk deals at most 700+ damage to 0 defense Flowey.
LV 11 Geno-Frisk deals 1000+ damage to 99 defense Undying.
By the game's own logic, which is accepted as canon for Undertale, Geno-Frisk should upscale from Paci-Frisk :v

It may seem to not make sense for mid-game Geno-Frisk or Undying to be on a higher level than Paci-Frisk while fighting a six-souled near-god, but LV 20 dead Chara, who has either one soul or none, can erase the universe with one strike, equaling the power of seven souls. And Undying was fueled by Determination in her Geno fight, which as shown in the GOH Asriel fight, can even hold up against a seven-souled being if potent enough, so this would still make sense according to in-universe logic.

LV isn't proportional to tier for humans
Damage isn't proportional either. Neither is stats for determination users.

Geno-Frisk deals around 100-300 DMG to random monsters, but right after, deals 10 million to Sans during their fight with him. Just because someone deals more damage, it doesn't mean anything unless the context points towards it.

Furthermore, Omega Flowey was holding back immensely against Peak Determination Frisk, therefore you shouldn't use these values for any sort of scaling.

Basically, Damage isn't linear.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

1. at the end of the fight when all of the souls start helping Frisk, you're notified that Flowey is weakened with a "Flowey's DEFENSE dropped to 0". You don't get anything like that during the rest of the fight.
2. dealing 1 damage at 6 souls, 20 damage at 1, and hundreds of damage at 0 is extremely disproportionate.

It doesn't have to be proportional. The SOULs slowly were helping Frisk throughout the entire fight, potentially decreasing Flowey's DEF while doing so. They didn't get freed of Flowey's control until after Flowey used his SAVE state

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Something else I just thought of that's also to do with scaling,
Paci-Frisk deals at most 700+ damage to 0 defense Flowey.
LV 11 Geno-Frisk deals 1000+ damage to 99 defense Undying.
By the game's own logic, which is accepted as canon for Undertale, Geno-Frisk should upscale from Paci-Frisk :v

Bro.
There's a 1 LITTLE difference in Undyne and Flowey.
Monster's canonical weakness is a killing intense, but Flowey isn't a monster.
So, it doesn't matter.