Undertale Frisk's height problem

[Jason_Courne]

(I really wish this site had comic sans or papyrus as a font)

The calculations
Here is the current calculation for Frisk's height, however there is a noticable problem, there is no reason to actually believe the fridge is the size of a human's fridge
All of Undertale takes place in the Underground which is home to the Monster race, there is no reason to believe an Underground appliance is the same as an Overworld appliance


However in the game there is ONE specific object that is pointed out to be the same size as it's Overworld counterpart, Mettaton's sink from the cooking segment, "*(It's a specifically-regular-sized sink.)"
Because the sink is explicitly pointed out to be the same size as it's Overworld counterpart, this means it is the best frame of reference for finding Frisk's height (better than using the fridges as reference)

Using the sink as reference I found Frisk's height to be 1.63 meters tall

---

Frisk's age
One of the biggest counterarguments against this height is that it can't be used since Frisk is a "child" however Frisk should be exiting childhood and entering adolesence, that and human height is one of the most inconsistent things

1. Frisk has completely lost interest in toys even "cool ones"
2. Frisk is incredibly emotionally intelligent and great at analysing the emotions of others
3. Frisk is old enough to flirt competently and understand romance, this is shown in great detail with Tsunderplane and the Royal Gaurds
4. Frisk is old enough to go out on dates and seek romantic companionship with other people even by Toriel
5. Alphys thought Frisk was old enough to write an love letter
6. Burgerpants in his dialogue heavily implies Frisk is a younger teenager
   1. When giving Frisk dating advice, he indirectly compared them to himself as a "naive teenager"
      • [Romance Advice]
      • Listen.
      • I like you, little buddy.
      • So I'm gonna save you a lot of trouble.
      • Never interact with attractive people.
      • Unless you're "one of them," they're just gonna take advantage of you.
      • Like that time those two chicks asked me to sneak them some glamburgers.
      • And I, naive teenager that I was, said yes to them.
      • Bad idea.
   2. When giving Frisk life advice, he considers Frisk old enough to make important decisions regarding their life
      • [Life Advice]
      • I'm getting on in years, so let me give you some advice, little buddy.
      • You've still got time.
      • Don't live like me.
      • I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my entire life.
   3. After Frisk listens to Catty and Bratty and talks to Burgerpants, he indirectly compares them to himself at a younger age for foolishly listening to Catty and Bratty
      • [Bratty and Catty]
      • Poor, naive little buddy.
      • They've brainwashed you.
      • "Friendship" is just a hot person's way of making you their slave.
      • [Romance Advice]
      • So I'm gonna save you a lot of trouble.
      • Never interact with attractive people.
      • Unless you're "one of them," they're just gonna take advantage of you.
      • Like that time those two chicks asked me to sneak them some glamburgers.
      • And I, naive teenager that I was, said yes to them.
7. Gyftrot who naturally distrusts teenagers due to them messing up his antlers, also confronts and distrusts Frisk for their "youthfull demeaner", meaning he considers Frisk a teenager

With this Frisk should be considered a "young teenager", which is when a person is inbetween the ages of childhood (9-12) and adolescence (15-17). This would mean they are old enough to be considered a teenager but also young enough to be considered a child, which meets the best of both worlds.

The ages of 13 to 14 would also be much closer to that of Frisk's own height and makes more overall sense

---

Possible changes
If Frisk's height is agreed to be 1.63 meters tall as I suggested, and the age is agreed on, all calculations would need to be reworked to include the new height and soul width (0.507 meters)
Frisk, Chara, possibly Monster Kid, and possibly Asriel, should all have their age rewritten to "Young teens"


uhhh that's about it, Death By Glamour is the best Undertale song

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

This also gives Toriel and Asgore Large Size (Type 0) if we were to go with these measurement
It's consistent with Asgore completely dwarfing this adult human

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

This also gives Toriel and Asgore Large Size (Type 0) if we were to go with these measurement
It's consistent with Asgore completely dwarfing this adult human

Ja

 

[LaserPrecision]

Seems relatively simple. You can put me down under agree.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Agree

 

[Metalballrun]

Waiting for other UT supporters, otherwise leaning to agree.

 

[ShionAH]

Agree

 

[Therefir]

This would make Frisk's height the same as a 14-year-old teenager, right? That's something I can live with.

 

[PROPLAYEN]

Agree

 

[Therefir]

... You made a mistake, your measuring line is only covering the basin of the sink, when the 0.762 meter value is for the entire sink, including the outer parts.

Fix that.

 

[Therefir]

Sink Width = 77 px = 0.762 m

Frisk's Height = 131 px = 131/77*0.762 = 1.296 m

@The_Yellow_Topaz Could you please verify what you get with your measurement program? I used this image for the scaling.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Sink Width = 77 px = 0.762 m

Idk about the gray outline part, I used the black outline part instead and got 1.412 meters for Frisk instead

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Sink Width = 77 px = 0.762 m

Frisk's Height = 131 px = 131/77*0.762 = 1.296 m

@The_Yellow_Topaz Could you please verify what you get with your measurement program? I used this image for the scaling.

I verified the sink is 77 pixels,
and Frisk is 131 pixels in my measurement program, and Paint.
Your measurements are undoubtedly correct.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Idk about the gray outline part, I used the black outline part instead and got 1.412 meters for Frisk instead

I can check on my own copy of Undertale in a higher quality. One second.

 

[Therefir]

Idk about the gray outline part, I used the black outline part instead and got 1.412 meters for Frisk instead

Since the gray outline is the same color as the basin, it should be part of the sink as well, the black outline is just the edges of the basin.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

My version is cleaner.

Frisk is undoubtedly 131 pixels tall.

The sink, however, is 76 pixels long.​

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

My version is cleaner.

Frisk is undoubtedly 131 pixels tall.

The sink, however, is 76 pixels long.​

This is why you zoom in when doing pixelscaling on your image editing software

 

[Jason_Courne]

Since the gray outline is the same color as the basin, it should be part of the sink as well, the black outline is just the edges of the basin.

Well yeah but the sink faucet is part of the black outline, and that typically marks the outer lining of the sink

 

[Therefir]

My version is cleaner.

Frisk is undoubtedly 131 pixels tall.

The sink, however, is 76 pixels long.​

Thanks, that would make Frisk 1.31 meters tall.

What should we do now? Go with that value, use the average height of a 13~14 teenager, or keep our current Soul width?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Well yeah but the sink faucet is part of the black outline, and that typically marks the outer lining of the sink

That is true for kitchen sinks now that I think about it. I'm pretty sure they're usually on the Sink's edge. I feel the grey line around the black could just be an outline or something. It's not to uncommon on a pixelated game such as Undertale.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Thanks, that would make Frisk 1.31 meters tall.

What should we do now? Go with that value, use the average height of a 13~14 teenager, or keep our current Soul width?

This is quite the pickle.

While we have been using an average for years now, having a calc is better than just assuming.
Furthermore we have no clue how old Frisk is, we just know they're young. I believe 131cm is the way to go.​

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Well yeah but the sink faucet is part of the black outline, and that typically marks the outer lining of the sink

That is true for kitchen sinks now that I think about it. I'm pretty sure they're usually on the Sink's edge. I feel the grey line around the black could just be an outline or something. It's not to uncommon on a pixelated game such as Undertale.

This is definitely included as "the sink" in measurements.

 

[LaserPrecision]

This is definitely included as "the sink" in measurements.

Ahh, so like the outer strip of the sink. Yeah, guess that makes sense.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Well there's also Asgore's scaling to humans which varies depending on which height you use for the medieval humans but supports the average height of a 13/14 year old scaling

I should note that using sink width instead of length would also get similar results (probably)

 

[Flashlight237]

While I'm not an Undertale supporter by this site's definition, I can certainly agree with the OP's reasonings.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

While I'm not an Undertale supporter by this site's definition, I can certainly agree with the OP's reasonings.

The height was refuted here:

My version is cleaner.

Frisk is undoubtedly 131 pixels tall.

The sink, however, is 76 pixels long.​

Thanks, that would make Frisk 1.31 meters tall.

What should we do now? Go with that value, use the average height of a 13~14 teenager, or keep our current Soul width?

Frisk is also referred to as a "child" many times by Toriel and WoG, these implications should be discarded.

 

[Flashlight237]

The height was refuted here:

Yes, correct the guy who said "I agree" after reading the whole thread. That'll get you anywhere.

 

[Ped2018]

Yes, correct the guy who said "I agree" after reading the whole thread. That'll get you anywhere.

You were refering to the OP though, if you read the thread then just say it lol

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yes, correct the guy who said "I agree" after reading the whole thread. That'll get you anywhere.

"How dare you say that the OP's idea was refuted to me, who just agreed to an outdated point without justification"

Yeah no.
The fact Frisk was referred as a child in canon was not something that was addressed anywhere
so I actually gave you new info to disagree with the OP.

Frisk is not 13.
OP's pixelscaling is objectively incorrect.
We're not making this 8yo looking character 165cm tall.​

 

[Jason_Courne]

Frisk is also referred to as a "child" many times by Toriel and WoG, these implications should be discarded.

Toriel is a several thousand year old goat mom, and real life mothers tend to baby their children
Being a young teenager of 13-14 years old would still fit within the age of "childhood", those years are the transitional period between childhood and teenage

Also being a child is kinda meaningless when the phrase basically means "younger than adult"

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Toriel is a several thousand year old goat mom, and real life mothers tend to baby their children
Being a young teenager of 13-14 years old would still fit within the age of "childhood", those years are the transitional period between childhood and teenager

You have no argument to say Frisk is a teen other than a desperate 19yo giving them advice.

Also you're making excuses for Toriel. If Frisk was not a child, she wouldn't call them a child.
It's as simple as that, you can't just make up character attributes that haven't been shown before.
Not to mention the humans have been called Children by Toby before. Your argument is over.
Plus the pixelscaling that you vouched for also puts Frisk at the height of a child.

Also being a child is kinda meaningless when the phrase basically means "younger than adult"

A child means someone between the age of 9-12.
Source: Your own OP.

ages of childhood (9-12)

 

[Therefir]

Also being a child is kinda meaningless when the phrase basically means "younger than adult"

This is the "legal" definition of a child, a child is a human being between the stages of birth and puberty, at least according to Wikipedia.

In any case, human height varies greatly over the ages, so using the apparently regular sink is better than any assumed height for those humans at the start of the intro.

They could be young adults, or be in a combat stance like the human with a sword in front of Asgore, or that image could even be just a depiction of the event.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yeah, the general perception of Frisk, including both how characters referred to them and the art depiction of Frisk, seem to indicate that Frisk might be pre-pubescent.
Though this isn't very strictly applied of course, or is seen as official canon afaik.

UT art style can also a bit misleading.

 

[Therefir]

Yeah, even the art we are currently using for their profile depict them as a child (I assume that art is considered official enough to be used instead of their in-game sprite?)

 

[Jason_Courne]

You have no argument to say Frisk is a teen other than a desperate 19yo giving them advice.

Also you're making excuses for Toriel. If Frisk was not a child, she wouldn't call them a child.
It's as simple as that, you can't just make up character attributes that haven't been shown before.
Not to mention the humans have been called Children by Toby before. Your argument is over.
Plus the pixelscaling that you vouched for also puts Frisk at the height of a child.

Frisk's age
One of the biggest counterarguments against this height is that it can't be used since Frisk is a "child" however Frisk should be exiting childhood and entering adolesence, that and human height is one of the most inconsistent things

1. Frisk has completely lost interest in toys even "cool ones"
2. Frisk is incredibly emotionally intelligent and great at analysing the emotions of others
3. Frisk is old enough to flirt competently and understand romance, this is shown in great detail with Tsunderplane and the Royal Gaurds
4. Frisk is old enough to go out on dates and seek romantic companionship with other people even by Toriel
5. Alphys thought Frisk was old enough to write an love letter
6. Burgerpants in his dialogue heavily implies Frisk is a younger teenager
   1. When giving Frisk dating advice, he indirectly compared them to himself as a "naive teenager"
      • [Romance Advice]
      • Listen.
      • I like you, little buddy.
      • So I'm gonna save you a lot of trouble.
      • Never interact with attractive people.
      • Unless you're "one of them," they're just gonna take advantage of you.
      • Like that time those two chicks asked me to sneak them some glamburgers.
      • And I, naive teenager that I was, said yes to them.
      • Bad idea.
   2. When giving Frisk life advice, he considers Frisk old enough to make important decisions regarding their life
      • [Life Advice]
      • I'm getting on in years, so let me give you some advice, little buddy.
      • You've still got time.
      • Don't live like me.
      • I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my entire life.
   3. After Frisk listens to Catty and Bratty and talks to Burgerpants, he indirectly compares them to himself at a younger age for foolishly listening to Catty and Bratty
      • [Bratty and Catty]
      • Poor, naive little buddy.
      • They've brainwashed you.
      • "Friendship" is just a hot person's way of making you their slave.
      • [Romance Advice]
      • So I'm gonna save you a lot of trouble.
      • Never interact with attractive people.
      • Unless you're "one of them," they're just gonna take advantage of you.
      • Like that time those two chicks asked me to sneak them some glamburgers.
      • And I, naive teenager that I was, said yes to them.
7. Gyftrot who naturally distrusts teenagers due to them messing up his antlers, also confronts and distrusts Frisk for their "youthfull demeaner", meaning he considers Frisk a teenager

With this Frisk should be considered a "young teenager", which is when a person is inbetween the ages of childhood (9-12) and adolescence (15-17). This would mean they are old enough to be considered a teenager but also young enough to be considered a child, which meets the best of both worlds.

The ages of 13 to 14 would also be much closer to that of Frisk's own height and makes more overall sense

Plus the pixelscaling that you vouched for also puts Frisk at the height of a child.

This is getting more and more and more ******* complicated than I originally intended, but there are multiple ways to scale off of the sink
There's scaling it width wise, which gets near same results as the 13-14 height range and scaling off of Asgore's height

And even then that's not my pixel scaling, that's YOURS
I disagree with using the grey outline, I think the black outline should be used instead as the "sink length"

A child means someone between the age of 9-12.
Source: Your own OP.

That's something I call, LITERAL definition of childhood, however the term child applies to anyone younger than 18
Source: Any gaurdian or older figure

In any case, human height varies greatly over the ages, so using the apparently regular sink is better than any assumed height for those humans at the start of the intro.

There are more than one way to scale a regular sized sink, which makes me more and more capricious of using the scaling in the first place
We can scale it width wise as well as length wise, scaling it width wise would net similar results to the 13-14 height range and be consistent with Asgore's height calc

They could be young adults, or be in a combat stance like the human with a sword in front of Asgore, or that image could even be just a depiction of the event.

The background humans are standing up straight, and I even took into acount the foreground human's slanted stance

 

[Therefir]

Real pink line width: 287/532*76 = 41 pixels

Why not just measured it normally? And where are these pixel numbers even coming from, Undertale doesn't have that much resolution for the sink to have 532 pixels in length.

The realization kicks in, knowing there are dozens of Undertale calcs that will have to be fixed one way or another.

I'm seriously considering dropping this revision, this was the worst moment to suggest a new height for Frisk, right in the middle of a revision, this should be illegal.

It's not too late to stick with the 137 centimeters Frisk, it works as a middle ground between the two suggested values.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This is getting more and more and more ******* complicated than I originally intended, but there are multiple ways to scale off of the sink
There's scaling it width wise, which gets near same results as the 13-14 height range and scaling off of Asgore's height

And even then that's not my pixel scaling, that's YOURS
I disagree with using the grey outline, I think the black outline should be used instead as the "sink length"

Two-step Pixelscaling vs One-step Pixelscaling. We will go with the sink.
​

Source: Any gaurdian or older figure

Ignores Toby calling the humans children.

Also this should refute you:

​

Why not just measured it normally? And where are these pixel numbers even coming from, Undertale doesn't have that much resolution for the sink to have 532 pixels in length.



I'm seriously considering abandoning this revision, this was the worst moment to suggest a new height for Frisk, right in the middle of a revision, this should be illegal.

It's not too late to stick with the 137 centimeters Frisk.

Look above, we're done with "Frisk is a teenager" argument.

 

[Therefir]

Look above, we're done with "Frisk is a teenager" argument.​

137 centimeters is the average height of a 10 years old child, isn't it?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

137 centimeters is the average height of a 10 years old child, isn't it?

Between 50-59 inches, with 54.5 inches being the average, about 138cm.
137cm seems fair enough.