Ultra Instinct -sign- Goku (Chou) vs. Surpassed Limits Super Saiyan 4 Goku (GT).

[Omegas03]

Both 3-A and Speed Equalized, who wins?

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Well UI's reaction hack would still keep him out of harms way of dangerous attacks and he should scale a great bit above GT Goku in power, however GT Goku is more of a strategist and has shown better reactive evolution and a wider combat arsenal.

 

[Mickey1940]

Chou Goku FRA + Hakai

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Only reason I didn't include that is because it's not shown, though that could simply be because of the ToP rules.

 

[IvoryAS]

I'll for Chou ╠ÂA╠Â.╠ÂP╠ ╠Âa╠Âd╠Âv╠Âa╠Ân╠Ât╠Âa╠Âg╠Âe╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠Âd╠ for EE and reactive evolution.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Chou FRA

 

[Spinoirr]

manga goku has Hakai and fra

 

[Peter1129]

Doesn't Ultra Instinct Goku have a time limit? And does he really have the AP advantage? Cause SS4 Goku stomped Syn Shenron who is slightly above baseline 3-A. And from the looks of Manga Goku's profile he only has a scaling chain of being slightly stronger than Jiren who is stronger than Belmond who is comparable to Beerus and Champa who are baseline 3-A.

 

[Mickey1940]

Doesn't Ultra Instinct Goku have a time limit? And does he really have the AP advantage? Cause SS4 Goku stomped Syn Shenron who is slightly above baseline 3-A. And from the looks of Manga Goku's profile he only has a scaling chain of being slightly stronger than Jiren who is stronger than Belmond who is comparable to Beerus and Champa who are baseline 3-A.

According to his page, he didn't stomp Syn Shenron, so he isn't that far into 3A himself

also, Hakai and Instinctive Reaction give Chou Goku a massive edge

before you say that Hakai doesn't work on stronger beings, Chou Goku used it on Fusion Zamasu, who is stronger than him, and it worked

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

@Peter

Part of that is because Syn underestimated Goku, still thinking he was blind, and considering Syn took a full 10x Kamehameha with only minor injuries I wouldn't say it's a stomp. And while Goku managed to harm Omega, this seemed to be mostly due to catching him by surprise.


Also Beerus in the manga should still be well over baseline universal since him and Champa were just going to do it, seemingly without much strain and it was stated that the universe would be destroyed when he fought Goku who at that point wouldn't even be a percentage of his power (Godx10=Blue. Bluexfusion=Perfect Blue. Kaioken x Perfect Blue=doesn't do anything to Jiren. Ultra Instinct actually battles full power Jiren.)

 

[Peter1129]

@SuperGodzilla You're thinking about Omega shenron vs SS4 Goku. After breaking his limits SS4 Goku causally stomped Syn Shenron even while he was still blinded.

Though you are right that the GoDs should be above baseline 3-A but it's unsure by how much.

I'm probably going to give this battle to SS4 Goku via outlasting UI Goku's time limit. Since the AP difference might not be as big as most people thought.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

@Peter No, Omega just demolished him until he dropped his guard. Syn did underestimate Goku, but I'm not denying Goku did get stronger than him.

A fair point.


I'd say the combination of self movement and the power advantage (even Omen could trade blows with Jiren though he wasn't quite at full power) as well as the potential hacks such as the Hakai or Evil Containment Wave (the manga doesn't have UI take away Goku's combat intelligence for raw power and speed like n the show) he'd be able to take a win.

 

[Mickey1940]

@SuperGodzilla You're thinking about Omega shenron vs SS4 Goku. After breaking his limits SS4 Goku causally stomped Syn Shenron even while he was still blinded.
Though you are right that the GoDs should be above baseline 3-A but it's unsure by how much.

I'm probably going to give this battle to SS4 Goku via outlasting UI Goku's time limit. Since the AP difference might not be as big as most people thought.

With all honesty, many GT characters have questionable reasoning for being 3A

I mean, the only thing confirmed to be 3A was the Minus Energy Power Ball, which is Omega's strongest attack, which should be about 3 times universe level since it would destroy all of Universe 7

Syn Shenron was stated to have grown 10 times (perhaps more) stronger after becoming Omega Shenron

Therefore the likes of SSJ4 Goku, SSJ4 Vegeta, Super 17, Syn Shenron, and Nuova Shenron shouldn't have been 3A in the first place

Even if they were it can't possibly be much higher than baseline, to be honest

Chou Goku should be many times baseline at this point, scaling from the GoDs

So I don't think GT Goku would be outlasting anytime soon

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I would say Goku could breach into universal possibly as he tore Omega apart with the Dragon Fist....but yeah...manga Goku for example had a more violent universe clash with Beerus and that was from a single punch, not three.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Wasn't the Manga Beerus and Goku clash Multi-Galaxy level? Not saying they're the same level of Multi Galaxy, but GT Goku hit multi galaxy tiers upon reaching basic SSJ1. But as for the fight, we have 2 3-A's with the same general skillset besides a few key differences which make all the difference. We have Chou Goku with Whis training, Hakai, Prediction and Instinctive Reaction. We have GT Goku with quite a few years worth of extra training and refining his skills in comparison, Energy absorbtion, and Reactive Evolution. Both have statistcs amplification, but GT Goku has been shown using it in SSJ4 in the form of Kamehameha x 10 and the biggest game changer here, dragon fist, which is strong enough to obliterate people with far higher AP than GT Goku himself. They both also have enhanced senses, but SSJ4 seems to have that hightened to an even greater degree than any other form, which GT Goku used to his advantage in fights.

I guess it all comes down to whether you think SSJ4 Goku can fight on par with Ultra Instinct Chou Goku, and if he can't then if he'll be able to outlast it. I think it's definitley possible for GT Goku to fight on par with UI as its been shown that someone close enough to your level, even without having UI, can still fight and beat peole with it. Jiren is the only example currently though. The biggest issue here is the hakai and if Chou Goku would actually use it or not. GT Goku is more likely to use the Dragon Fist than Chou Goku using the Hakai, though UI Goku won't be the easiest person to hit that with. So far we've seen GT Goku only use it when its guaranteed to hit. Considering he's already 3-A and Dragon Fist is a move that harms people drastically stronger than himself, I can confidently say it'll be a GG if it hits. If. But on the other hand GT Goku has no ansewrs to Hakai if its used.

 

[Mickey1940]

Wouldn't it be easier for Chou Goku to dodge the Dragon Fist in comparison to GT Goku didging the Hakai?

Chou Goku has Ultra Instinct, after all, and it's not like the Dragon Fist is an instantaneous attack. Hakai, on the other hand, is initiated far faster than the Dragon Fist is, and GT Goku doesn't have dodging ability on the level of Chou Goku

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Again GT Goku being universal is mostly scaling to Syn/Omega Shenron. However, it should be noted that's heavily implied the Dragon Fist-Kamehameha combo was catching Omega of guard. First he didn't know Goku could see where he was aiming, second he'd been toying with Goku up to that point and he called it a dirty trick immediately after reforming.

So manga Goku has a chance to survive it but would be more likely to dodge it. While Jiren did outlast it, that was his first time using it and it ran out quickly. Every time Ultra Instinct returns, it does so for longer. Plus we never saw manga Goku with killing intent. MUI was technically holding back if you think about it, couldn't kill Jiren. Granted, Omen is weaker, but they were still comparable.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'll vote SFPS4 Goku for better ki control, more experience, and only being slightly weaker