Two questions on time axes and spacetimes

[ArcaneAbyss]

So I have 2 questions

1) If you have a spacetime that contains a 2c multiverse structure. Would that space tike be equivalent to a 2a structure for having infinite snapshots of a 2c structure (which I'd assume already has infinite snapshots of the low 2c structure within it as it's a space time). Assume there is only one time axis throughout


2) In a hypertimeline, if someone fires an omnidirectional blast from the power timeline and it reached the higher one and destroys the entire hypertimeline, does it count as moving across multiple time dimensions on the wiki? What speed would it be?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Bump

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Bump

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So I have 2 questions

1) If you have a spacetime that contains a 2c multiverse structure. Would that space tike be equivalent to a 2a structure for having infinite snapshots of a 2c structure (which I'd assume already has infinite snapshots of the low 2c structure within it as it's a space time). Assume there is only one time axis throughout

So you mean there's a space-time [let's say A] that contains 2~1000 universes[A 2-C construct], and everything shares the same time axis? False, I think that kind of example will be similar to a universe as a whole with it's finite[2-C] branched timelines. Than basically, the 2-C universes in it share the same time axis, in essence, they will behave was literal snapshots themselves, they won't generate snapshots, they themselves will be like snapshots, and the shared the time axis.
Something like this :

They will still be 2-C, unless the space-time [assumed to be A] is actually infinite and simply contains just 2C amount of universes, it could be 2-A, like [Imaginary Space] from TenSura, but with your current context, no, it would still be 2C.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So I have 2 questions

1) If you have a spacetime that contains a 2c multiverse structure. Would that space tike be equivalent to a 2a structure for having infinite snapshots of a 2c structure (which I'd assume already has infinite snapshots of the low 2c structure within it as it's a space time). Assume there is only one time axis throughout


2) In a hypertimeline, if someone fires an omnidirectional blast from the power timeline and it reached the higher one and destroys the entire hypertimeline, does it count as moving across multiple time dimensions on the wiki? What speed would it be?

As for part 2, it will still be MFTL+, at least with the context you gave. Maybe if you gave a bit more context like explaining HOW the omnidirectional blast reached it, and the time it took for that.... but you can take Zeno's erasure as an example.... that is MFTL+

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

So you mean there's a space-time [let's say A] that contains 2~1000 universes[A 2-C construct], and everything shares the same time axis? False, I think that kind of example will be similar to a universe as a whole with it's finite[2-C] branched timelines. Than basically, the 2-C universes in it share the same time axis, in essence, they will behave was literal snapshots themselves, they won't generate snapshots, they themselves will be like snapshots, and the shared the time axis.
Something like this :

They will still be 2-C, unless the space-time [assumed to be A] is actually infinite and simply contains just 2C amount of universes, it could be 2-A, like [Imaginary Space] from TenSura, but with your current context, no, it would still be 2C.

I mean like, a 2c multiverse space time contained in another space time. Eg, A is a space toke they contains B, B contains 2 low2c universes and is thus 2C, is A still counted as a 2C, or does A, by virtue of containing a 2c multiverse, act as a 2A sized space

As for part 2, it will still be MFTL+, at least with the context you gave. Maybe if you gave a bit more context like explaining HOW the omnidirectional blast reached it, and the time it took for that.... but you can take Zeno's erasure as an example.... that is MFTL+

I am mostly trying to understand what exactly the "multiple time dimensions" in the speed page means

Where exactly do affecting multiple time dimensions come in for immeasurable speed?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I mean like, a 2c multiverse space time contained in another space time. Eg, A is a space toke they contains B, B contains 2 low2c universes and is thus 2C, is A still counted as a 2C, or does A, by virtue of containing a 2c multiverse, act as a 2A sized space

Depends entirely on how the verse presents it, but 2-C still.

However, now that I see it again, I think it will be a bit different, this time with the timelines. If Space-time A is considered both temporarily and physically, it would be 2-A[I think], but if considered simply physical destruction.
Something like this:

Although both space-time A, and B, have the same time axis, and the two Low 2-C contained within B also have the same shared time axis[Assuming there is only 1 time axis throughout], than B will spawn timelines, although that depends on the verse, let's say it spawns an infinite timelines[given that is how it is presented in-verse], than Space-time A would be 2-A.
For the explanation on in what cases it would be 2-C or 2-A depending on the number of timelines, you should read

Q: What is the Tier for destroying or creating several timelines?​

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Where exactly do affecting multiple time dimensions come in for immeasurable speed?

Are you referring to this?

Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)

I checked that section too just now, and I think it will be immeasurable [given the timelines have their own time axis/ a hyper timeline] if there is enough context.

Let's see here.... it would depend on how the time axis of the timelines is presented, if the time axes of lower and higher timelines are not only different, but also in different directions, than the case would be something like this...

so, basically, let's say a character A reaches the higher timeline from the lower one via sheer speed, than, he is moving beyond the lower timeline's time axis, essentially, he is jumping out of the time axis of the lower timeline, and going to the time axis of the higher timeline, but the higher timeline doesn't flow in the same direction as the lower timeline[assumed -- not always the case], than the character would have Immeasurable speed, and in this same case, an omnidirectional blast will, too.... at least that's how I understand it. This part isn't explained in FAQ and they only explained the comparison between infinite and immeasurable speed characters.... so this is what I think from my understanding of time logic.

This is, of course, assuming that not only do the timelines have different time axis, but their direction is also different.
I tried to make a graphical presentation, but don't expect it to be good or perfectly accurate....

If it is the prior case, the character won't have immeasurable speed unless otherwise shown, if it is the latter case, they will have immeasurable speed if they can move from the upper to the lower timeline through sheer speed, at least that's what I understand from the little explanation on this topic FOR SPEED.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Depends entirely on how the verse presents it, but 2-C still.

However, now that I see it again, I think it will be a bit different, this time with the timelines. If Space-time A is considered both temporarily and physically, it would be 2-A[I think], but if considered simply physical destruction.
Something like this:

Although both space-time A, and B, have the same time axis, and the two Low 2-C contained within B also have the same shared time axis[Assuming there is only 1 time axis throughout], than B will spawn timelines, although that depends on the verse, let's say it spawns an infinite timelines[given that is how it is presented in-verse], than Space-time A would be 2-A.
For the explanation on in what cases it would be 2-C or 2-A depending on the number of timelines, you should read

Q: What is the Tier for destroying or creating several timelines?​

Yea, I know what makes 2A and 2C multiverses, I was just wondering if this "multiverse inside a spacetime" would still be 2c or 2a. Thanks

Are you referring to this?


I checked that section too just now, and I think it will be immeasurable [given the timelines have their own time axis/ a hyper timeline] if there is enough context.

Let's see here.... it would depend on how the time axis of the timelines is presented, if the time axes of lower and higher timelines are not only different, but also in different directions, than the case would be something like this...

so, basically, let's say a character A reaches the higher timeline from the lower one via sheer speed, than, he is moving beyond the lower timeline's time axis, essentially, he is jumping out of the time axis of the lower timeline, and going to the time axis of the higher timeline, but the higher timeline doesn't flow in the same direction as the lower timeline[assumed -- not always the case], than the character would have Immeasurable speed, and in this same case, an omnidirectional blast will, too.... at least that's how I understand it. This part isn't explained in FAQ and they only explained the comparison between infinite and immeasurable speed characters.... so this is what I think from my understanding of time logic.

This is, of course, assuming that not only do the timelines have different time axis, but their direction is also different.
I tried to make a graphical presentation, but don't expect it to be good or perfectly accurate....

If it is the prior case, the character won't have immeasurable speed unless otherwise shown, if it is the latter case, they will have immeasurable speed if they can move from the upper to the lower timeline through sheer speed, at least that's what I understand from the little explanation on this topic FOR SPEED.

The 2 temporal axes of the timeline are accepted to be in different directions yes, the timeline is a low 1c 5D structure with 3d+2d configuration

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The 2 temporal axes of the timeline are accepted to be in different directions yes, the timeline is a low 1c 5D structure with 3d+2d configuration

Than I think it can have immeasurable speed. But just to be sure, you can request some Admins to give input here, because I may be wrong in this....

BTW what verse is this? My guess is dragon ball?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yea, I know what makes 2A and 2C multiverses, I was just wondering if this "multiverse inside a spacetime" would still be 2c or 2a. Thanks

Well, I find it hard to see how it can be 2-A other than by using that logic, if it has the same space-time throughout.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Well, I find it hard to see how it can be 2-A other than by using that logic, if it has the same space-time throughout.

Not same space time, one larger space time containing a 2c multiverse. Basically spatially different but being serviced by the same time axes, essentially a large 4d space containing a 4d 2c multiverse

Than I think it can have immeasurable speed. But just to be sure, you can request some Admins to give input here, because I may be wrong in this....

Yea, that's what I was hoping for, the admins I contacted weren't sure themselves

BTW what verse is this? My guess is dragon ball?

Yea

 

[Ang4I00]

They will still be 2-C, unless the space-time [assumed to be A] is actually infinite and simply contains just 2C amount of universes, it could be 2-A, like [Imaginary Space] from TenSura, but with your current context, no, it would still be 2C.

Let's assume that there's a Dimension A and Space-Time B, this Space-Time B has countless branching timelines from its time axis(2-B), Dimension A is called infinite and "can't be measured like a real place, although it is real" in comparison, constantly destroys and recreates Space-Time B and is stated to exist completely outside of time(while time is an additional aspect of space inverse), what tier would that be? Sorry if there's something you don't understand here since I'm not an native speaker, many thanks

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Not same space time, one larger space time containing a 2c multiverse. Basically spatially different but being serviced by the same time axes, essentially a large 4d space containing a 4d 2c multiverse

Well if that 2C multiverse as a whole is shown to spawn timelines, and infinite of these timelines [not countless or any large amount, infinite], than possibly.... but it may or may not just debunk the higher time axis, which in this case is supposed to spawn an uncountably infinite snapshots [each being a copy of that 2C construct], but if we assume 2-A than that would debunk the uncountably infinite to countably infinite.... POSSIBLY

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Let's assume that there's a Dimension A and Space-Time B, this Space-Time B has countless branching timelines from its time axis(2-B), Dimension A is called infinite and "can't be measured like a real place, although it is real" in comparison, constantly destroys and recreates Space-Time B and is stated to exist completely outside of time(while time is an additional aspect of space inverse), what tier would that be? Sorry if there's something you don't understand here since I'm not an native speaker, many thanks

Does the space-time B exist inside Dimension A, or does it not have that kind of relation to it?

 

[Ang4I00]

Does the space-time B exist inside Dimension A, or does it not have that kind of relation to it?

Yeah, its embedded in Dimension A

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah, its embedded in Dimension A

Hmm, I'd say at least 2-B for that Dimension as well [recreating and destroying continuously won't count as it's doing it one by one, at least from how you wrote it].

For it to be 2-A, I'll need more context on how it is called "infinite" and if yes, than multiple times or just once? And I don't understand the "can't be measured like a real place, but it is real"

But I'm also seeing a high change of Low 1-C 5D if this Dimension has its own time axis.

Also, from the context..... I'm guessing that from the verse cosmology you are taking this, the "dimension" is called something like "imaginary space" that is infinite and can the world[space-time B assumed] continuously?

 

[Ang4I00]

For it to be 2-A, I'll need more context on how it is called "infinite" and if yes, than multiple times or just once? And I don't understand the "can't be measured like a real place, but it is real"

Yeah, its consistently called infinite. So, the whole context behind it is that its actually void and is often deemed to be "unreal" due to it being inaccessible to humans(they can access it only via abstract mean like dreams and visions), but the place is real but cannot be measured due to it being infinite and nowhere

But I'm also seeing a high change of Low 1-C 5D if this Dimension has its own time axis.

It is stated to exist outside of time itself, also has statements that time is meaningless due to its landscape being "echoes of events from the real world" that are literally frozen in time and yeah theres alot more things, its consistently portrayed as at least not being bound by the time. Although It's more like its competely devoid of time, its like an non-existence.

Also, from the context..... I'm guessing that from the verse cosmology you are taking this, the "dimension" is called something like "imaginary space" that is infinite and can the world[space-time B assumed] continuously?

The verse I'm talking about is Dishonored, although it is very similiar to Tensuras Imaginary Space in a way. It creates one space-time and later destroys it, creates new one and destroys it later and so on.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah, its consistently called infinite. So, the whole context behind it is that its actually void and is often deemed to be "unreal" due to it being inaccessible to humans(they can access it only via abstract mean like dreams and visions), but the place is real but cannot be measured due to it being infinite and nowhere

Yeah, in this case it would indeed be 2-A.

It is stated to exist outside of time itself, also has statements that time is meaningless due to its landscape being "echoes of events from the real world" that are literally frozen in time and yeah theres alot more things, its consistently portrayed as at least not being bound by the time. Although It's more like its competely devoid of time, its like an non-existence.

Those "echoes" seem like snapshots to me, which would be possible only[I think] it if itself is a space-time with a time axis.... [Know that the space itself can be unbounded by time yet still have a time axis as a whole, as in, the dimension as a whole can be a space-time with a different time axis, but inside it, apart from where the space-time B exists [because it seems as if B only occupies a part of this dimension], the space around space-time B that is empty, can be unbounded by time. Think of it as sub-space between universes, except that this time it isn't "between" universes, it simply contains a universes[space-time B] along with its branching timelines...

So if you can somehow prove that this Dimension is a space-time, it has a high change of getting Low 1-C, and if you can prove that it also has a time axis[because I think it can] than Low 1-C is basically confirmed.

The verse I'm talking about is Dishonored, although it is very similiar to Tensuras Imaginary Space in a way. It creates one space-time and later destroys it, creates new one and destroys it later and so on.

Hmm, interesting...

 

[Ang4I00]

So if you can somehow prove that this Dimension is a space-time, it has a high change of getting Low 1-C, and if you can prove that it also has a time axis[because I think it can] than Low 1-C is basically confirmed.

Can you explain how can I prove that certain space-time has its own time axis

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can you explain how can I prove that certain space-time has its own time axis

You can explain by using the following means :

- If you can show that my proving that the Dimension here is a Space-Time continuum, meanwhile the time axis of Space-time B is not shared and is unique to itself [Basically it is not shared with the dimension, but it is space-time B's own time axis].

- You can prove it if you somehow prove that those 'echoes' are of uncountably infinite amount[more than countably infinite], and that each echo is something akin to a timeline.

- You can also prove it more simply just by showing that the Dimension here has a time dimension, or, it us unbounded by time YET still has time governing it [this is both confusing, yet also the easiest one]

 

[Ang4I00]

You can explain by using the following means :

- If you can show that my proving that the Dimension here is a Space-Time continuum, meanwhile the time axis of Space-time B is not shared and is unique to itself [Basically it is not shared with the dimension, but it is space-time B's own time axis].

- You can prove it if you somehow prove that those 'echoes' are of uncountably infinite amount[more than countably infinite], and that each echo is something akin to a timeline.

- You can also prove it more simply just by showing that the Dimension here has a time dimension, or, it us unbounded by time YET still has time governing it [this is both confusing, yet also the easiest one]

Well, I'm pretty sure dimensions are already space-times by default, but landscapes of Void are stated to be "dependent upon reality to supply the base material for it to mirror", which is linked to the echoes I was talking about, and its stated that "Time here is meaningless, neither seconds nor centuries", which is visually shown by complete stoppage of time, also there's one part of the Void that doesn't mirror reality but "exists outside of time itself". The thing is, it certinaly doesn't just lack time, since time is an additional aspect of space in Dishonored, Void would be just 3D, which is not correct due to it being infinitely larger than the real world, warping the timelines of the real world and other things I already mentioned, so I think its something different but idk what it could mean. Also aspects of the Void and people with direct connection to the Void are stated too to exist outside of time and warp it by their mere presence, like a rock in the stream, rock being them and stream is time itself.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Well, I'm pretty sure dimensions are already space-times by default, but landscapes of Void are stated to be "dependent upon reality to supply the base material for it to mirror", which is linked to the echoes I was talking about, and its stated that "Time here is meaningless, neither seconds nor centuries", which is visually shown by complete stoppage of time, also there's one part of the Void that doesn't mirror reality but "exists outside of time itself". The thing is, it certinaly doesn't just lack time, since time is an additional aspect of space in Dishonored, Void would be just 3D, which is not correct due to it being infinitely larger than the real world, warping the timelines of the real world and other things I already mentioned, so I think its something different but idk what it could mean. Also aspects of the Void and people with direct connection to the Void are stated too to exist outside of time and warp it by their mere presence, like a rock in the stream, rock being them and stream is time itself.

hmm, I'll read this tomorrow, GN for now

 

[Ang4I00]

So if you can somehow prove that this Dimension is a space-time, it has a high change of getting Low 1-C, and if you can prove that it also has a time axis[because I think it can] than Low 1-C is basically confirmed.

So, about thinking it twice, shouldn't, in this particular case, spatial seperation of dimensions be also considered as them having different time axis due to time itself being an aspect of space, acting like a 4th dimension of space?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So, about thinking it twice, shouldn't, in this particular case, spatial seperation of dimensions be also considered as them having different time axis due to time itself being an aspect of space, acting like a 4th dimension of space?

False, a space-time and those contained within that space-time can have the same time axis. What you're saying is merely an example of a 2-C~2A structure, as the space-times in the bigger continuum don't really have a separate axis of time, the time axis is shared throughout the multiverse.

 

[Ang4I00]

False, a space-time and those contained within that space-time can have the same time axis. What you're saying is merely an example of a 2-C~2A structure, as the space-times in the bigger continuum don't really have a separate axis of time, the time axis is shared throughout the multiverse.

That would be true if we consider regular time, which is completely independent parameter to space and is not bound to any specific position in said space, that's why its not required to have separate time axis by default. But, in this case, time is defined as a spatial dimension, an 4th coordinate, thus 2 different space should harbor their own time coordinate logically

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

That would be true if we consider regular time, which is completely independent parameter to space and is not bound to any specific position in said space, that's why its not required to have separate time axis by default. But, in this case, time is defined as a spatial dimension, an 4th coordinate, thus 2 different space should harbor their own time coordinate logically

Hmm, I wouldn't be too sure regarding this because I this isn't my kind of thing on using time axis[es], so you should ask an admin on that, I recommend Qawsedf234, he seems to be specialized in this...