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- Non-Physical Interaction: As shown with prior examples, Cognition is capable of interacting with souls, abstract thoughts, minds, reality, and information.
This would probably work if as indicated it also is conceptual type 2 I guess.
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Two Fate Manipulators go head to head
- Thread starter Naito-desu
- Start date
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Ren literally has Type 2 Concept Manipulation, he can interact with it.
All his moves are?
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,433
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This is only for type 1 NEP, not type 2.
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Yeah, we just haven't applied that. Should probably do that first, lol.
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I'm confused, doesn't Type 2 CM bypass Type 2 NEP? If not, what does?
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,226
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Wish i coud help
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,226
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No even being 1-A doesn't make you interact with Type 2 NEP without feats
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Huh, interesting. Guess we lucked out, barely.
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you need feats, feats is the only thing that gives you NPI that interacts with NEP type 2
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And Joker has.
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Okay well the fight can actually start then. Tzeentch opens with Sealing/Fate Manipulation that works on Acausal type 5's, although I don't know if that means it bypasses Jokers resistance to it.
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Joker resists both.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,433
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That bypasses type 5?
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I don't see what Type 5 has to do with it. Joker resists it, it's simple as that, Type 5 is just invulnerability to stuff out of causality. Assuming this guy has Type 2 CM, then yeah, it should bypass it.
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It means it bypasses a pretty good form of resistance that I don't think Joker has feats of resisting?
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What does type 2 CM have to do with resisting Fate Manip that works on Acausal type 5's. I don't think Joker resists Fate Manip of such a potency.
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You went from fate manip to sealing, so which is it??
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You said he resists both? he usually opens with fate manip and reverts to sealing if Fate Manip doesn't work. We where talking about Fate Manip clearly.
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I mean is there even varying potency or degree's of type 5? your abilities can either affect some1 with type 5 or they can't.
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All of Ren's abilities can.
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Okay well Ren has a win condition and Tzeentch doesn't so this is a stomp for Joker now probs. IDK
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The realm described is literally the same as the cognitive world of persona. Literally, almost every characteristic stated can be applied to said realms in persona bar the chaos flavoring. Joker's beaten 4 diety's of said realm.
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Is this stuff even on his profile yet? it's getting really confusing as to what Ren can/can't do. At the moment Persona is only acausal type 4 from what I can tell.
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- Thread starter
- #66
Maybe it's on the Cognitive Physiology page
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,433
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Only direct feats of affecting type 2 NEP.
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Later revisions but this one is directly tied to cosmology and less specifically about Joker. The whole realm unbound by physics, operating on different system of physics, not being bound by cause and effect, time and space being mutable and even "meaningless", causal events being violated by such as in the events of persona Q where the protags and their crews exist from different points of one timeline simultaneously, or Makoto doing so and with Minako, his parallel universe self, etc. The chaos gods being able to reality warp is also akin to cognition manipulation in persona which you don't even need to be a diety to be amazing with and humans can use cognition on tier 1 scales.
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I mean is Persona is really as absurd as everyone is indicating them Joker stomps and Tzeentch has no win condition.
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So doesn't Tzeentch's greater self just create another avatar if it gets incapped? He likely just gets incapped again but gives him an opportunity to at least try something weird from Aethyr Manipulation. I think this is incon still
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Do they do that IC?
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I mean no1 has ever incapped Tzeentch. If his Avatar gets messed with he will absolutely just make another one, Tzeentch is way smarter then Joker to an absurd degree and would see every possible future where his avatar gets incapped in the opener and plan accordingly
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He wouldn't see it, considering Joker resists precog, and Persona's should have acasuality.
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Also if this is 'True End Game Joker' isn't he 1-C?? does Joker even have the same stuff as mentioned previously in his Low 1-C key? cause it seems like we are arguing about 1-C jokers stuff instead of Low 1-C jokers stuff
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It's literally the same stuff???
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Tzeentch would definitely see it. He might not see what Joker is going to do but he will see the result on his Avatar before it happens. Acausality isn't gonna do shit to Tzeentch's precog
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Considering Enlil, an administrator, could see infinite physical and mental worlds in an instant, yet still lost to Joker, plus Persona's Type 4 Acausality that allows Archetypes to exist before man despite being created by man, I highly doubt.
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Tzeentch can do the same plus the entire warp+use it against acausal type 5 beings. Yeah Tzeentch's precog is definitely going to work here. Tzeentch also MASSIVELY outranges Joker here.
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Doesn't matter if they can do the same thing, point is I'm saying if Joker resisted Enlil's, he'll resist his. Don't see why Type 5 matters here, considering if they cannot precog them, they cannot precog them.
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Tzeentch's precog is way above Jokers resistances. It works in a type 5 realm where precog shouldnt even be possible at all.
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