Transcending Time and Space Question

[Arkenis]

Witch's Contract

What would you classify this as? I went with it being 5d but I wanna know what others think. Also going beyond time and space in context seems to refer to actual space and time as it says it exceeds time and space as well.

 

[Shiraito983]

not 5d

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It says the contract/pact exceeds and goes beyond time and space. Sounds like they're hyping up the contract not whoever it's attached to, and even still it's not enough for 5D.

 

[Arkenis]

It says the contract/pact exceeds and goes beyond time and space. Sounds like they're hyping up the contract not whoever it's attached to, and even still it's not enough for 5D.

Yeah ik the people arent lol Im asking what surpassing time and space would be in context for the contract.

 

[Arkenis]

If its not 5d then I assume 4d is reasonable enough for the hax since it just surpasses time and space.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Hax? All I see is pact or contract, which hax lol?

 

[Arkenis]

Hax? All I see is pact or contract, which hax lol?

Its Law manipulation from what I gathered, the contract that binds supporter and witch surpasses life and death, time and space.

 

[Arkenis]

In essence, the contract surpasses space and time which would make powernulling it or trying to interact with it would require your hax to also surpass time and space

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't get the Hax function, according to scans, they more likely talking about it. I don't see any functionality or capability of it.
But I disagree with it for being 4D or 5D either way. There are no feats for that.

 

[Arkenis]

I don't get the Hax function, according to scans, they more likely talking about it. I don't see any functionality or capability of it.
But I disagree with it for being 4D or 5D either way. There are no feats for that.

feats??? I just need statements, not everything gotta be shown to understand lol

 

[ImmortalDread]

feats??? I just need statements, not everything gotta be shown to understand lol

Any exaggerating statements like this need some feats, till now they are talking about contract and golden law. I don't see any hax here or anything.
Literally, all I see are a bunch of girls want to “support” the girl. No context whatsoever.

 

[Arkenis]

Any exaggerating statements like this need some feats, till now they are talking about contract and golden law. I don't see any hax here or anything.

I explained the context. Those three girls are actually supporters of the witch and they are coming to make the contract with the witch. And the golden law is literally law manipulation. How did you not pick that up from this?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can you explain further about Golden law? Because they never described Golden law, rather they described the contract.

 

[Arkenis]

Can you explain further about Golden law? Because they never described Golden law, rather they described the contract.

Yeah this is about the contract not the golden law, the golden law has empathic manipulation but thats irrelevant here.
But here I will send everything
The contract between Witch and Supporter goes beyond life and death, beyond time and space, with a golden law that binds the supporter to the witch and becomes their supporter for eternity[3]. The golden law enforces one to show absolute loyalty even at the cost or danger of the supporter causing them to always want to protect their Witch. With Halloween we see this loyalty develop as love for Tasha and that all of it is fabricated love[4]. Here we see Halloween attack even allies if they try to hurt Tasha

 

[ImmortalDread]

I really failed to see any 4D feats or 5D with the evidence you presented.

 

[Arkenis]

I really failed to see any 4D feats or 5D with the evidence you presented.

Well since in context its not referring to speed, and its not ap, it could be referring to where the contract itself exist.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well since in context its not referring to speed, and its not ap, it could be referring to where the contract itself exist.

Exist? It has nothing to do with any higher dimensional reality plane. I barely see any qualitative superior dimensional hax.
Yet, contract is nowhere a structure or ability. It is a promise between those lolis girls and that witch.

 

[Arkenis]

higher dimensional reality plane

what do you think is beyond space and time?

 

[ImmortalDread]

what do you think is beyond space and time?

Nothing. The context does not talk about it much. As I said, it can be overreacted statements. Think about it in other perspective side, why would a contract be beyond space-time in literal sense?

It is literally a promise:
It is like describing, it does not matter how long, how eternal, even between death and life, we will still support you.

We both agree that a contract is not hax or ability or structure, so it makes no sense. It is just impulsive and hyperbolic.
Authors tend to say such words because they are inspiring. But you need to prove, they meant it in literal sense. We can't take this as evidence.

 

[Arkenis]

Nothing. The context does not talk about it much. As I said, it can be overreacted statements. Think about it in other perspective side, why would a contract be beyond space-time in literal sense?

Its fiction, so anything can be beyond time and space, thats how hax works. What other perspective? the only other perspective I can think of is just semantical and not relevant here at all which is what you're doing it seems. Also idk what you mean by "it can be overreacted statements".

Onto what contracts are

We both agree that a contract is not hax or ability or structure, so it makes no sense. It is just impulsive.

No. Contracts are law manipulation, at least from what I understand since we don't have it on the wiki. Also just so Im not seeming crazy and making this up Absolute Contract is a thing on superpower listing as well and they describe it as

"The user can create and enforce any type of contract/pact with absolutely anything, even with themselves; dictating every condition therein, including qualifiers in the event one-or-more of the parties would - or even could - somehow break the contract/pact.

The conditions imposed by the contract/pact are absolute; and will always, inevitably, come to pass, no matter the conditions so dictated. The contract/pact cannot be negated, nullified or undone by any exterior force or being, save by the user."

This is what the witch's do. The contract they make just surpasses life and death, time and space.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @KingPin0422 @Pain_to12

What do you think about this?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Its fiction, so anything can be beyond time and space, thats how hax works. What other perspective? the only other perspective I can think of is just semantical and not relevant here at all which is what you're doing it seems. Also idk what you mean by "it can be overreacted statements".

It is fiction, but also it needs to make sense. There are no feats, this is a hyperbolic statement.

Onto what contracts are

No. Contracts are law manipulation, at least from what I understand since we don't have it on the wiki. Also just so Im not seeming crazy and making this up Absolute Contract is a thing on superpower listing as well and they describe it as

We have law manipulation

"The user can create and enforce any type of contract/pact with absolutely anything, even with themselves; dictating every condition therein, including qualifiers in the event one-or-more of the parties would - or even could - somehow break the contract/pact.

The conditions imposed by the contract/pact are absolute; and will always, inevitably, come to pass, no matter the conditions so dictated. The contract/pact cannot be negated, nullified or undone by any exterior force or being, save by the user."

This is what the witch's do. The contract they make just surpasses life and death, time and space.

Again, remember my question prior to this. I asked one thing, what is golden law, you said it is law manipulation, and now you change your whole claim and say contracts are law manipulation? Pardon me?

How can a contract be ability but in the same time, the condition is imposed by contract? It is literally contradiction, what you are referring to is Golden Law.

Do you know contract means promise in that context?
As I said, I don't see any 4D or 5D in a significant literal sense. There is no cosmology in the question.

 

[Arkenis]

It is fiction, but also it needs to make sense. There are no feats, this is a hyperbolic statement.

What suggest it's hyperbolic from what I've shown?

Again, remember my question prior to this. I asked one thing, what is golden law, you said it is law manipulation, and now you change your whole claim and say contracts are law manipulation? Pardon me?

No I told you the golden law is irrelevant to the contract discussion since we know what the golden law is already, I sent scans for it.

How can a contract be ability but in the same time, the condition is imposed by contract? It is literally contradiction, what you are referring to is Golden Law.

Do you know contract means promise in that context?
As I said, I don't see any 4D or 5D in a significant literal sense. There is no cosmology in the question.

I just showed you that contracts are hax from powerlisting, contracts have conditions, in this case the condition is that golden law but that golden law is empathic manipulation as shown and described by Ryuhwan about Halloween and Tasha so that is irrelevant in the contract discussion.

In context the pact/contract is a binding that binds supporter and witch together so it is not just some regular promise they make to one another lol.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Judging from this scan that you have in OP, I don't see it as it is law manipulation. All I see is a promise between those girls and the Witcher and some metaphoric statements. I don't see how it is 4D or even an ability to begin with.

 

[Arkenis]

metaphoric statements

You can't just say its metaphoric or hyperbolic, there needs to be reasons for that lol, otherwise its a direct statement for whats going on not some sort of flowery language.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It is flowery language and hyperbolic statement. I don't see any context referring to any qualitative, superior, significant higher dimensional hax (if we even consider it as hax, since I am still sure it is not)

 

[Arkenis]

It is flowery language and hyperbolic statement. I don't see any context referring to any qualitative, superior, significant higher dimensional hax (if we even consider it as hax, since I am still sure it is not)

Why are you assuming flowery language and hyperbolic? Where implies it is not meant literal?

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is the burden of proof fallacy.

 

[Arkenis]

This is the burden of proof fallacy.

Yeah you have the burden of proof. You made the baseless assumption that its hyperbolic and flowery, we do not just assume that without reasoning.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You get it wrong, actually, Arkenis. It is not burden of proof of mine. I never made claim that it is 4D/5D ability. You did, therefore I am in a negative claim.
You need to prove the other party it is 4D and 5D ability. As far as I see, there is no context referring to any qualitative, superior, significant higher dimensional hax.

Burden of proof fallacy​

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.

Example:

"Goku is faster than light speed because you can't prove he's not!"

In this case, the person in the example makes a claim (Goku is FTL), and without providing evidence for it himself, he asks his opponent to prove him wrong. In reality, the person who made that claim would be the one required to prove it.

You need to provide a context that back up your claim. The current one you are using is much hyperbolic and metaphoric. I don't need to prove it.
And simply, if I am required, I already told you. There is no context.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Witch's Contract

What would you classify this as? I went with it being 5d but I wanna know what others think. Also going beyond time and space in context seems to refer to actual space and time as it says it exceeds time and space as well.

Nope certainly not any form of transcendence or level of reality
“A contract that goes beyond life and death, time and space”
“A contract that exceeds the limitations of life and death, time and space”

This is flowery and says nothing about ontological difference, simply means a contract that cannot be broken, Alive or dead, or no matter where you are or how long it takes

 

[ImmortalDread]

Damn, I thought I am crazy for being in the same opinion.

This is flowery and says nothing about ontological difference, simply means a contract that cannot be broken, Alive or dead, or no matter where you are or how long it takes

Literally, this is my whole perspective of point

 

[Arkenis]

You get it wrong, actually, Arkenis. It is not burden of proof of mine. I never made claim that it is 4D/5D ability. You did, therefore I am in a negative claim.
You need to prove the other party it is 4D and 5D ability. As far as I see, there is no context referring to any qualitative, superior, significant higher dimensional hax

Bruh what? the post was to get others views on this, I am not dead set on 4d or 5d. All I've done is take the statements in the manga as what they could be, you made the claim its hyperbolic without any evidence or reasoning, and Im asking why you think this, what is the argument for it being hyperbolic and you won't give one.

You need to provide a context that back up your claim. The current one you are using is much hyperbolic and metaphoric. I don't need to prove it.

I've done so multiple times LMAO. I explained to you that the context is not just some promise being made its an actual hax being done to the two characters in question that binds one another to each other through the witch's contract. You are just saying its hyperbolic or metaphoric without anything backing that up.

This is flowery and says nothing about ontological difference, simply means a contract that cannot be broken, Alive or dead, or no matter where you are or how long as passed

You are doing the same thing as Dread did, zero argument for what makes it flowery, simply applying that to be the case from nowhere in the context is it implied to be flowery.

 

[Arkenis]

Damn, I thought I am crazy for being in the same opinion.

Literally, this is my whole perspective of point

That perspective is NOT what is happening, I keep trying to explain this, that perspective is nothing but semantical.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never ever heard that we “the opposing party” need to prove it is not 5D or 4D using your own evidence? The scan itself lacks any:

• The main part: Linguistic context
• ontological difference
• relation with the multiverse
• qualitative difference,
• superior difference,
• significant higher dimensional Hax or even any effect on higher reality plane
• Not even any feats

The scan itself lacks context, and it is referring to an eternal promise between girls and the Witcher. How I don't have any arguments?
Beyond space-time statements such that are not even accepted in wiki due to their extreme vagueness that has no context to back it up.

My position is still unchanged. This simply lacks any further context for it to be 4D.

Note: Please remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being “beyond space-time” or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades.

 

[Theglassman12]

The contracts sound more like they just go beyond conventional life and death rules in the sense of lasting forever. I don't really see how this can be interpreted as 5-D and not just another way of saying the contracts can last forever even beyond mortal life unless there's some elaborations on what they mean by the contracts transcending time and space.

 

[Arkenis]

The contracts sound more like they just go beyond conventional life and death rules in the sense of lasting forever. I don't really see how this can be interpreted as 5-D and not just another way of saying the contracts can last forever even beyond mortal life unless there's some elaborations on what they mean by the contracts transcending time and space.

Well while I see the case for the life and death part yes it would be referring to lasting forever, but the time and space part doesnt make sense to also be talking about one's mortal life since being beyond space has nothing to do with being eternal.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Note: Please remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being “beyond space-time” or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades.

Beyond space-time statements such that are not even accepted in wiki due to their extreme vagueness that has no context to back it up.

 

[Arkenis]

Idk, I think the one saying they exceed the limitations of time and space is almost impossible to see a different way since the lasting forever aspect is already meant for the life and death aspect of the contract.

Essentially the part for being beyond life and death is already covered as the contract will last for eternity, but then beyond space and time is already something beyond eternity so it can't also be talking about it lasting forever. hope that makes sense

 

[ImmortalDread]

As long as there is no context for the part you are referring, it will be a baseless claim to assume it meant 4D. And it sounds as exaggeration.

Note: Please remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being “beyond space-time” or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades.