Topaz's Stat Equal RPG Tourney Round 1: Mewtwo vs the Future Warrior (Saiyan) (0-0-0)

[MysticBrawler]

Im gonna go ahead and say that this is going to be open for one last day, after that- please submit thy votes so one may move on

Actually I don't have anything else to say for Mewtwo so you can just go ahead and vote now.

 

[Topaz404]

Alright! Put in they votes!

 

[koopa3144]

No, but it will probably be enough for Mewtwo to avoid Future Warrior's heavy strike.

It's not a guaranteed thing and even if they do miss the heavy strike, they can just go for a normal attack to keep the combo going and lead into another heavy strike

The flinching effect applies to all of Mewtwo's attacks, which would naturally include his homing attacks, as well as the moves that he copies from Future Warrior.

As I noted before, FW can just block the homing attacks with their forcefields or just TP out of their range.

 

[MysticBrawler]

It's not a guaranteed thing and even if they do miss the heavy strike, they can just go for a normal attack to keep the combo going and lead into another heavy strike

As I noted before, FW can just block the homing attacks with their forcefields or just TP out of their range.

Fair enough, but the point still stands.

The same can be said for Mewtwo, so seeing as this can go either way I think it's best to just let the votes decide.

 

[Imaginym]

Do we know what Future Warrior opens with?

 

[koopa3144]

Do we know what Future Warrior opens with?

They don't really have any in-character starting moves but they would most likely either start by charging up to get Ki to for attacks and to transform or immediately fly or teleport to Mewtwo to start attacking him right off the bat.

 

[Imaginym]

They don't really have any in-character starting moves but they would most likely either start by charging up to get Ki to for attacks and to transform or immediately fly or teleport to Mewtwo to start attacking him right off the bat.

I feel ashamed because I was about to bring up LS.

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z, likely higher (Still superior to Primal Groudon) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Immensely superior to its base form) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Comparable to the regular Mewtwo)

Lifting Strength: Class P (Able to lift Great Ape Nappa and Vegeta by their tails) | At least Class P, likely higher | At least Class P, likely far higher | At least Class P, likely far higher, far higher via Beast, with Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Blue Evolved and Ultra Instinct



But the tournament equalizes that, too, no?

Point would be that many/most Psychic-type attacking moves are Telekinesis.
It's even what it leads with in many of its battles in Pokemon: The First Movie.

In theory, it might be useful for keeping distance here, but....

Anyone got a list of what's restricted for this tournament?

 

[koopa3144]

I feel ashamed because I was about to bring up LS.

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z, likely higher (Still superior to Primal Groudon) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Immensely superior to its base form) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Comparable to the regular Mewtwo)

Lifting Strength: Class P (Able to lift Great Ape Nappa and Vegeta by their tails) | At least Class P, likely higher | At least Class P, likely far higher | At least Class P, likely far higher, far higher via Beast, with Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Blue Evolved and Ultra Instinct



But the tournament equalizes that, too, no?

Point would be that many/most Psychic-type attacking moves are Telekinesis.
It's even what it leads with in many of its battles in Pokemon: The First Movie.

Yeah LS is equlized here and FW resists TK due to having PoD.

Anyone got a list of what's restricted for this tournament?

Everything over High hax based on this list.

 

[Imaginym]

Good to know.

....As a stickler for the official depictions, looking at some of these move descriptions in Mewtwo's Notable Attacks/Techniques section hurts me.

Mewtwo has things like Psystrike (Signature move, not any more accurate, but possibly IC), & Telekinesis (Hard to avoid), among other things, & Aura Sphere (Doesn't miss in gameplay, homing attack.), as well as Miracle Eye (Ignores accuracy checks & Evasion boosts (Such as those from Double Team, an Afterimage technique.) to always hit.
It could also use Laser Focus to inflict Critical Hits.

By ensuring it always hits, it could least do damage.

Since they both have Flight & Teleportation, with stuff like that, Mewtwo could attempt to win via attrition. Even if FW Adapts to Pressure, until they do, Pressure means they're still expending actual Stamina.

 

[koopa3144]

Mewtwo has things like Psystrike (Signature move, not any more accurate, but possibly IC), & Telekinesis (Hard to avoid), among other things, & Aura Sphere (Doesn't miss in gameplay, homing attack.), as well as Miracle Eye (Ignores accuracy checks & Evasion boosts (Such as those from Double Team, an Afterimage technique.) to always hit.
It could also use Laser Focus to inflict Critical Hits.

FW resists tk so Mewtwo's Psychic attacks aren't gonna be very effective. And as I noted before FW can block anything they can't avoid with a forcefield or just TP out of the way.

Since they both have Flight & Teleportation, with stuff like that, Mewtwo could attempt to win via attrition. Even if FW Adapts to Pressure, until they do, Pressure means they're still expending actual Stamina.

FW's Saiyan Reactive Evolution adapts quickly so Pressure isn't a problem in the long run. And even without their RE, as I noted FW can handle stacking multiple things that heavily tax the body at once and keep up with peeps like Goku and Vegeta in long battles who have their own plentiful stamina feats. They can also recover their stamina with abilities and equipment.

It's mad late where I am rn so I'm gonna go pass out now. I'll reply to anything else when I wake up.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, yall still have one more day to cast votes and give final arguments, get your rest Koops

 

[Imaginym]

FW resists tk so Mewtwo's Psychic attacks aren't gonna be very effective. And as I noted before FW can block anything they can't avoid with a forcefield or just TP out of the way.

Not all of them are, though. Psystrike, as mentioned, doesn't seem to be:
"The user materializes an odd psychic wave to attack the target. This move deals physical damage."
(Same as Psyshock, oddly enough.)
Its animation depicts it as an orb that's launched which explodes outwards.


Incidentally, how is FW's Telekinesis Resistance demonstrated within the setting?

Also, how does the Forcefield work & how is it used?

FW's Saiyan Reactive Evolution adapts quickly so Pressure isn't a problem in the long run.

How quickly, though? Any time at all where it's effective is a time where it contributes to Stamina expenditure.

And even without their RE, as I noted FW can handle stacking multiple things that heavily tax the body at once and keep up with peeps like Goku and Vegeta in long battles who have their own plentiful stamina feats.

Mewtwo's current Stamina justification, outdated though it may be is:
Stamina: Superhuman (The average pokemon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for lots of time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks. Had to have traversed a dungeon with 99 floors, each filled to the brim with high-level enemies)

(IDK if currently valid, though.)

They can also recover their stamina with abilities and equipment.

Arguably, Mewtwo also can with Recover & Life Dew.

It's mad late where I am rn so I'm gonna go pass out now. I'll reply to anything else when I wake up.

Rest well.

 

[Topaz404]

Today's the day! Make thy final arguments and cast thy votes!

 

[koopa3144]

Not all of them are, though. Psystrike, as mentioned, doesn't seem to be:
"The user materializes an odd psychic wave to attack the target. This move deals physical damage."
(Same as Psyshock, oddly enough.)
Its animation depicts it as an orb that's launched which explodes outwards.

Iirc we consider Psychic type moves a form of TK and in its description notes it as a Psychic wave which would mean its a form of TK.

Also, how does the Forcefield work & how is it used?

They have a lot of different Forcefield techniques, such as Energy Barrier, Energy Field, Force Shield, Energy Dome, etc. All of which cancel out Ki blasts and other ranged attacks.

How quickly, though? Any time at all where it's effective is a time where it contributes to Stamina expenditure.

Iirc they can evolve to counter something soon exposure. Also, I can't actually see the scan rn cause its blocked on the computer I'm using so I can't check to it myself to see how long it takes for them to evolve a counter.

Mewtwo's current Stamina justification, outdated though it may be is:
Stamina: Superhuman (The average pokemon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for lots of time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks. Had to have traversed a dungeon with 99 floors, each filled to the brim with high-level enemies)

(IDK if currently valid, though.)

I'd say that isn't as good as FW's stamina or the stamina of the peeps like Goku and Vegeta who FW can outlast in combat.

Arguably, Mewtwo also can with Recover & Life Dew.

If Mewtwo uses any healing moves FW can copy them to use on themselves or just prevent Mewtwo from healing by constantly pressuring him.

 

[Imaginym]

Iirc we consider Psychic type moves a form of TK and in its description notes it as a Psychic wave which would mean its a form of TK.

I'm not sure it looks like one from the description, & IDK if it's an energy wave or such, but whatever.

They have a lot of different Forcefield techniques, such as Energy Barrier, Energy Field, Force Shield, Energy Dome, etc. All of which cancel out Ki blasts and other ranged attacks.

Yes, but I meant how does FW use the one you alluded to in your post that I was responding to? Do they pose? Do they focus their ki? Do they do a kiai/shout or a verbal command?
Does it expend any resource?

Iirc they can evolve to counter something soon exposure. Also, I can't actually see the scan rn cause its blocked on the computer I'm using so I can't check to it myself to see how long it takes for them to evolve a counter.

Oof.

If Mewtwo uses any healing moves FW can copy them to use on themselves or just prevent Mewtwo from healing by constantly pressuring him.

"The user regenerates its cells, restoring its own HP by up to half its max HP."

Its one thing to see an arm grow back or wounds disappear, or control Ki in the same way you sensed someone else do, but how would FW copy a technique without perceiving how it works?
Is the FW able to see what actions the microscopic cells are doing?

(Also, do they have a Resistance to Power Nullification/Sealing?)

 

[koopa3144]

Yes, but I meant how does FW use the one you alluded to in your post that I was responding to? Do they pose? Do they focus their ki? Do they do a kiai/shout or a verbal command?
Does it expend any resource?

Most just require them to expel their ki and evasive skills use stamina but FW passively recovers stamina and can use items or a few skills to recover it faster.

"The user regenerates its cells, restoring its own HP by up to half its max HP."

Its one thing to see an arm grow back or wounds disappear, or control Ki in the same way you sensed someone else do, but how would FW copy a technique without perceiving how it works?
Is the FW able to see what actions the microscopic cells are doing?

FW can copy more complex things like time-skip and elemental magic so its not out of the question. And other Mon's can copy recover without having to see the microscopic cells.

(Also, do they have a Resistance to Power Nullification/Sealing?)

Yeah, they resist it with God Ki.

 

[Imaginym]

Yeah, it sounds like FW has too many insurmountable Resistances, & too big a skill difference.

In theory, it could try Mega Evolving, however the statement given for its Mega Form don't indicate a very quantifiable difference:

Mega Mewtwo Y:

Let's Go Pikachu/Let's Go Eevee	Despite its diminished size, its mental power has grown phenomenally. With a mere thought, it can smash a skyscraper to smithereens.

& it still might not be enough to deal with the LS gap.

The justifications claim:

Attack Potency: Planet level (Despite being marginally weaker than Normal Forme Deoxys, it was still capable of impaling it with its spoon) | At least Galaxy level, possibly High Universe level (Vastly superior to its base form. Managed to fight against 50% Zygarde despite being much weaker, making it at least comparable to Base Necrozma) |

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z, likely higher (Still superior to Primal Groudon) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Immensely superior to its base form) | At least Class Z, likely far higher (Comparable to the regular Mewtwo)

But IDK how this tournament's Stat Equalization affects that, even if Mewtwo can indeed Mega Evolve here.

 

[Topaz404]

Mewtwo can indeed Mega Evolve here, and stats equalization includes AP/Dura/Speed and LS

 

[Imaginym]

Mewtwo can indeed Mega Evolve here, and stats equalization includes AP/Dura/Speed and LS

Does Mega Evolving increase Mewtwo's statistics however? They are usually higher as a result of said amplification/form change.

I'm not saying it is, but if Mega Mewtwo were 10x that of base Mewtwo normally, would it still be 10x greater in this tournament, or would Mega Mewtwo be equal to base Mewtwo in this tournament?

 

[Topaz404]

Stat amps do apply, yes- (shouldve clarified in that other message)

 

[Imaginym]

Stat amps do apply, yes- (shouldve clarified in that other message)

So does that mean Mega Mewtwo in this tournament is however many stronger is compared to base Mewtwo as At least Galaxy level, possibly High Universe level is compared to Planet level?

Because if FW is still at whatever Base Mewtwo was equalized to....

 

[Topaz404]

I mean, FW can still amp as well. Amps are fine as long as they dont get to the point of just absolute oneshotting-

 

[Imaginym]

I mean, FW can still amp as well. Amps are fine as long as they dont get to the point of just absolute oneshotting-

Going from Planet Level to Galaxy Level is going from Tier 5 to Tier 4 or 3, IIRC; If Equalization left FW at Tier 5 or so, going to Mega Evolution's Tier would allow oneshotting, AFAIK.

 

[koopa3144]

Fow Mewtwo's Mega evos, FW see Mewtwo has a transformation with their info Information Analysis can use Remote Serious Bomb to seal it away. Also rn mega evos are only a 2x amp while FW can amp up to 3x with Kaioken under the tournament restrictions.

 

[Imaginym]

Fow Mewtwo's Mega evos, FW see Mewtwo has a transformation with their info Information Analysis can use Remote Serious Bomb to seal it away. Also rn mega evos are only a 2x amp while FW can amp up to 3x with Kaioken under the tournament restrictions.

Sees it & Seals it, after it's initiated?

Also, source on Megas being only a 2x Amp? (I'd assume something to do with Thick Club?)

 

[koopa3144]

Sees it & Seals it, after it's initiated?

Remote Serious Bomb can both prevent a target from transforming by sealing it before they use it or by sealing a transformation while its being used which returns the target back to their base form.

Also, source on Megas being only a 2x Amp? (I'd assume something to do with Thick Club?)

Its accepted on the updated profiles that Megas are stronger than Pure Power Pokémon and Marowak with a Thick Club so it's a 2x amp.

 

[Imaginym]

Remote Serious Bomb can both prevent a target from transforming by sealing it before they use it or by sealing a transformation while its being used which returns the target back to their base form.

Noted.

Its accepted on the updated profiles that Megas are stronger than Pure Power Pokémon and Marowak with a Thick Club so it's a 2x amp.

Sounds like a possible reason for more than 2x, since Thick Club itself is 2x, & Megas are stronger than that.

But anyway, it sounds like FW has too much skill, & too many Resistances & countermeasures for Mewtwo to succeed here.
IDK if Mewtwo actually has a win condition.

But if valid, voting Future Warrior, Low Difficulty. (& if not, it's a tournament, so Stomps still mean advancement, lol.)

 

[Topaz404]

Alright so another vote for FW.....lets see. Anyone else want to vote so this can move on?

 

[koopa3144]

I'll also vote for FW FRA.