because tokyo babel characters have a acasual type 5
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tokyo babel Question?
- Thread starter Saiyan40009
- Start date
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I'm going to assume you meant why do they have it. As for that, Based off what I'm reading from their profile and past threads they probably shouldn't have it, as it seems to be gained from a Transcending Causality statement which is not enough for Type 5. While also being based off the misunderstanding that this passive Causality Manipulation changing its Causality to not be hurt by any attacks is evidence for Type 5's unchanging nature and not just the Causality nature its listed as.
As a whole it can be summed up with that in the past a simple statement of Transcending Causality was enough, but as time went on we became stricter with what was needed for it but no one really payed enough attention to Tokyo Babel to change it or reavulate it, as has happened to many a profile.
As a whole it can be summed up with that in the past a simple statement of Transcending Causality was enough, but as time went on we became stricter with what was needed for it but no one really payed enough attention to Tokyo Babel to change it or reavulate it, as has happened to many a profile.
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Tokyo Babel is quite an underrated verse and vn. I could attempt to fix some things regarding the Tokyo Babel verse, considering I've sufficiently in-depth knowledge about Tokyo babel to the point of calling myself a Tokyo babel supporter or something like that.
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Although, all the transcending and casualties stuff is really something i need to check out... (I'm not all that familiar with those things)
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Honestly I've been meaning to read it as well, I just got busy some months ago while reading the part with the Fire Archangel and never got around to continuing, but yeah. I don't see any evidence for Type 5, as the old evidence was only accepted based off requirements being more relaxed back then.
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a question what are the requirements for Acausuality type 5
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Bumping for interest
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Tokyo Babel is a mess atm in this wiki. Most of the characters' tiers are based on faulty scaling that does not take context into account. Not to mention the lack of abilities on their profiles.
But to answer your question, God is the one with Type 5 Acausality for a variety of reasons. God completely transcends causality to the point it is impossible to even perceive it, let alone interact with it. Was stated to be a reversal of causality and unbound by the laws of the Multiverse. Furthermore, not only is God was stated to be completely free from the shackles of Time itself, but also God exists in a completely higher plane of existence than Heaven which makes it impossible to interact with it despite Heaven being an infinite sized realm that's completely devoid of the concept of Time and where the borders of the concepts of past, present, and future remain vague. Attacks, defenses, and evasion are completely meaningless when faced with the true form of God, and neither can you confront him at all.
But to answer your question, God is the one with Type 5 Acausality for a variety of reasons. God completely transcends causality to the point it is impossible to even perceive it, let alone interact with it. Was stated to be a reversal of causality and unbound by the laws of the Multiverse. Furthermore, not only is God was stated to be completely free from the shackles of Time itself, but also God exists in a completely higher plane of existence than Heaven which makes it impossible to interact with it despite Heaven being an infinite sized realm that's completely devoid of the concept of Time and where the borders of the concepts of past, present, and future remain vague. Attacks, defenses, and evasion are completely meaningless when faced with the true form of God, and neither can you confront him at all.
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None of that is Acausality Type 5, they are other abilities. God in Tokyo Babel has multiple different ways of being immune to damage, but none of this seems to be because he exists outside Causality. His stuff about being undamaged because of Causality is not because of being outside Causality but because Causality automatically prevents the damage by shifting reality, seems like it would be similar but aren't, one is a state of being the other is a passive ability.
Being untouchable and unperceivable because of being in another dimension isn't Acausality Type 5. It's reversal of Causality and being free of Time because of its nature of creation isn't Acausality Type 5 either.
Basically if God's nature of being immune to damage was because it was outside of Causality and not because Causality passively warped reality to prevent damage, then it would be Acausality Type 5, but it isn't so it isn't.
Being untouchable and unperceivable because of being in another dimension isn't Acausality Type 5. It's reversal of Causality and being free of Time because of its nature of creation isn't Acausality Type 5 either.
Basically if God's nature of being immune to damage was because it was outside of Causality and not because Causality passively warped reality to prevent damage, then it would be Acausality Type 5, but it isn't so it isn't.
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This pretty clearly states that God is a being Transcending Causality.
Judging by your previous comment, you have not played (or fully played) the game, so let me give you a bit of context. The god that is shown here is not the True Form of God, but actually God after he was forced to manifest (by his own will as well as by Sorami in Sorami Route/by Raziel's Book in Raziel route/by Tiamat-Lilith in Lilith+Setsuna route) into the 3D world and take a weakened Physical Form bound by the World. This was the only way the party could perceive as well as interact with god, let alone harm him. However, while Setsuna was attacking god, god was shifting causality as well as the laws of the Multiverse to not only avoid damage but to soon become unbound by the world. So him shifting causality to avoid damage is just his 3D Physical Form which has been bound by the world and not his actual True Form.
I'm pretty sure that it is, given the context of God's True Form. The "passively warped reality to prevent damage" is only for the Avatar Form which is what made God bound to the world vulnerable to physical attacks as well as other shenanigans.
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In Raziel's route, it's imperceptible because of being in another dimension. Once Setsuna perceives it through Gethal's eyes his attempts to attack are stopped by a "local, retroactive shift in time" restoring any damage by shifting Causality. Raziel used her book to distort the laws and Causality of the world to force God into their dimension and preventing him from rewriting Causality because of said distorted Causality.
In Sorami's route Raziel does the same thing and forces it into the third dimension.
In Setsuna's route it was killed by Tiamat-Lilith offscreen. (Tiamat was defeated by having the despair of ten billion people overwhelm her, then using the Harbinger of Ash to slay her once she and Lilith seperated)
Based off right I've read, their is not enough evidence for Type 5 Acausality. It would just get Type 4 for the Transcending Causality statement.
In Sorami's route Raziel does the same thing and forces it into the third dimension.
In Setsuna's route it was killed by Tiamat-Lilith offscreen. (Tiamat was defeated by having the despair of ten billion people overwhelm her, then using the Harbinger of Ash to slay her once she and Lilith seperated)
Based off right I've read, their is not enough evidence for Type 5 Acausality. It would just get Type 4 for the Transcending Causality statement.
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Agree with RM
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In both Sorami and Raziel's route God was literally explained to be beyond Causality and not being perceptible by Angels or their senses. Him being in another dimension/plane of existence was more of an explanation on how he exists Transcendental to the Angels/Heaven as stated by Lilith herself which is why no angel, not even Lucifer during the rebellion could not perceive, let alone interact, with God as God transcended the Angels and Heaven itself. The reason why Gethel's eyes was able to see God is due to her ability to perceive things that are hidden and unseen from reality. And once Raziel binds God to Causality making him depowered and vulnerable, God was trying to rewrite causality to become invulnerable again. None of this actually debunks the fact Setsuna and the Party was attacking the Grotesque Machine Form of God while God's True Form is beyond Time and Causality while being completely unable to be perceived normally, let alone be interacted with, which all fits the criteria for Acausality Type 5.
I don't know why you tried red-herr by bringing how Tiamat was killed since it has no relation to the topic at hand lol but okay. Tiamat was already a Primordial deity who originally created the world before God was brought into existence and before God remade the world. Not to mention, Tiamat was stated to have the same power as God. So Tiamat killing God is not a debunk of Acausality Type 5 especially since both are similar deities and it happens off-screen.
Based on the given evidences I provided before along with the context, God fits Type 5 just fine since he meets the criteria for Type 5 (Transcending Causality, Being unbound from Reality, and Being Unable to be Perceived or Interacted with).
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From what I read its imperceptibly was entirely because of it being in another Dimension, Causality wasn't linked to it at all. The only time Causality was mentioned was that Transcending Causality statement (which alone is not Type 5) and when it was rewriting Causality to prevent harm (isn't Acausality) I saw no mention of Causality beyond those moments in all the routes.
As for the Tiamat part, I wasn't making any point with it. Just a little side note I added because I was talking about her and I felt like it with no actual purpose.
As for the Tiamat part, I wasn't making any point with it. Just a little side note I added because I was talking about her and I felt like it with no actual purpose.
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Let's look at the entire definition of Acausal Type 5 and match the puzzle up
Going by our Acausality Type 5 standards and definition, I'm pretty ******* sure, this is Type 5.
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Our standards are stricter then just a statement of Transcending Causality being enough proof for Acausality Type 5 (based off the context as well its likely talking about God's passive Causality Manipulation and not any Acausality) , and as I've said before existing in a separate dimension and passively manipulating Causality to rewrite any interaction is not evidence for Acausality Type 5.
This is me stating the site's standards as staff and not only am I someone who is judging the evidence as someone who has just read the source, but as someone who has read all your evidence and seen its only showing exactly what I'm stating.
This is me stating the site's standards as staff and not only am I someone who is judging the evidence as someone who has just read the source, but as someone who has read all your evidence and seen its only showing exactly what I'm stating.
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give me a character that has a transcending causality statement and has type 4, instead of type 5 or doesn't have acausality at all
and this was already addressed by RM, though.
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Then you either read wrong or don't actually know the full context. God was imperceptible because he was in Another Dimension was a reference that he existed in a higher dimension. Both Raziel and Lilith stated that God transcended the Angels. No, it is not some parallel dimension as even random angel and demon like Raziel and Lilith can traverse the 2-B Multiverse for survivors. It wouldn't have been a problem at all for Lucifer to have found God when he searched for the latter but still couldn't find him.
Causality was mentioned thrice.
1) When God was rewriting Causality (aka God in his 3D Physical Form)
2) When God was described as a being born from the undiluted hopes of humanity existing beyond the shackles of time and being a reversal of causality.
3) When God was dragged by Safer Raziel in his 3D form and was stated to be "No longer a being transcending causality" implying God's true form was indeed Transcendental to Causality.
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I know the site standards. It seems to me you're only cherrypicking here and deliberately ignoring context and the fact that the "Passive Causality Manipulation" was God in his physical 3D bound form, not his true form. You're also fixated on the "Another Dimension" part despite context pointing out God exists in a higher plane than the Angels or Heaven which is why no one (except Gethel and Metatron by proxy) has ever seen or interacted with him in the first place aside from directly getting his voice or blessings. God's true form was outright stated to be unbound by the shackles of time and he is a reversal of causality with another statement saying his weakened 3D physical form is not a being transcending causality, ergo, his True form Transcends Causality.
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