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Timothy Hunter Revisions

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

8,330
1,716
Post-Merlin Timothy
Let's get started. This won't be my average revision thread. It will be something rather special... Since I care for this character a lot:
Can sense any form of Magic / Language and understand it intuitively, as the Conduit of the Song of Creation :

Senses Emotions:

BFR:

Invisibility:

Can resist Mind Manipulation of a high-end order: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pmpe3Z2o...-DKoBez01ImwDlDp2k950QCHMYCw/s1600/RCO016.jpg

Can resist Time Stopping:

As Merlin he is the conduit of the Song of Creation, which endlessly makes and unamkes the Universe:

Universe here is clearly referring to all of Vertigo via these scans that take place in this exact book series:

So that in and of itself could be 1-A.... But I'm not done. Essentially Timothy (or at least a evil version) was causing all of the realm's Gates to open unexpectedly.

Proof all the Realms were affected (The Last one proves that his other self is the one that opened it):

They stated that they needed his help to open it, implying he's the only one who could:

Timothy (whose borderline powerless) is not only capable of Closing the Realms himself , but states he needs more than that level of power to beat him.

To give you a idea of how much weaker he was, one of his creations (from one of his realities) stated (when he still had a bit of power), he created endless realities:

A piece of his power went into every reality to sustain it. In other words.... He's literally endlessly weaker than he would be with it, and STILL had enough power to close the Gates, which no one in any other realm could.

I also disagree with him being Tier 7 period. As a Opener, he should be at least tier 2 considering his power to create endless realities , and likely tier 1 (Everything I mentioned sans the Song of Creation/Merlin bits, was him before he even became Merlin) .

Also.... Him being Merlin (his older looking persona) is >>>>>> everything else, including the Great Reality stuff.
 
Seems reasonable to me.

Might want to get Matthew and Sandman in here, though. I assume they know more than I would, especially the latter given that he's like a junkie when it comes to Vertigo's series.
 
Bump.

Here is my supposed changes -

Powers and Abilities Additions :BFR , Creation , Mind Manipulation , Invisibility , Empathic Manipulation , Resistance to Time Stop, Mind Manipulation

Tier Additions/Changes: His tier should be Tier 1 in both Base and Merlin. He was using the powers of a Opener to achieve the Great Reality Storm that affected all realms . He did not use his powers as Merlin, which is utilizing the power of Logos/The Voice/Song of Creation

He created endless realities, and then stated he still had enough power to re-do the Great Reality Storm, something no one else is any realm could. Remember as a Opener he takes a piece of his own power to create a reality. So he is at the very least millions of times to endlessly weaker than before.

At the EoS he gained all his parts back, plus now can utilize the full power of Merlin. I am unsure where he fits in the cosmology . There is a statement that may imply he's > The Endless in raw power tho, plus a feat of resisting Death of the Endless' Death hax... But that is for another time.
 
The new powers seem reasonable, but I am extremely doubtful of upgrading Tim to 1-A, unless Sandman and Matthew agree about it.
 
@Ant ... Hence why I've been waiting for a week for a response. I feel like it's legitimate, but I'll never know unless someone takes 5 minutes to look this over.
 
Well, the powers seem fine, but 1-A is a tremendously high rating. I am extremely reluctant to allow it without highly knowledgeable staff members approving it.

You can ask them again to comment here if you wish.
 
I do bellieve the feat's above 2-B (Especially considering Vertigo's Heaven, Hell, Dreaming, Void , and Silver City were stated indirectly to be affected) .... That's for certain.

I'll ask them in about a hours time. I'm working on asking for calcs about a specific character from a relatively violent kid's show.
 
Bump.

Also the fact that it was stated the Books of Magic has the power to destroy the Multiverse [In the same exact Comic series were Pralaya is portrayed to be High 1-B via Destroying the Multiverse in all it's directions of time and space directly after they leave Timothy to confront the threat of Pralaya after it dies down] , and it was revealed that it was essentially just Tim's powers that empowers the Book.... Let me show you guys:

Remember there was the Miracle Machine & other "higher than 2-B Magical Artifacts" was before this event canonically [Justice League Dark took place after Mandrakk]

When in Justice League Dark specifically this statement happened by Pralaya that was qualified as High 1-B, which means All of Existence is very much High 1-B here, as well as Justice League Dark consistently portrays all of existence as Infinite Dimensional I would like more input, but it does generally seem that Timothy is supposed to be a lot higher than 2-B.
 
Hmm, if Tim can fight Pralaya on even terms, that actually is good evidence, but I would still like to see a confirmation from other knowledgeable staff members.
 
Ok, sorry, a lot of things happened this month so I wasnt able to focus much on this wiki. School projects, exams, entrance exam at a university, exam so I'll be able to qualify for a scholarship, my dog dying, my grandmother dying etc. Just felt like I should explain why I'm not so active these days.

Remember there was the Miracle Machine & other "higher than 2-B Magical Artifacts" was before this event canonically [Justice League Dark took place after Mandrakk]

I dont think we should assume that its more powerful than other previous magical items just because it was said to be the most powerful magical artifact in the universe. The Green Lantern ring was also said to be the most powerful weapon in the universe but we dont put it above other weapons that appeared in the past. Its just that its the most powerful weapon/artifact/etc is frequently used in comics due to it having different writers.
 
Okay. No problem. That is obviously perfectly understandable.

What do you think about the suggested statistics?
 
I think High 1-B is very likely. I disagree with scaling Timothy to Death though. I know Tim affected Death's realm but the Endless are very hard to scale, especially their realms, an example is how a lucid dreamer can destroy the entire Dreaming, or how lilith can destroy the Silver City etc.
 
Okay. Would you be willing to update his profile page?
 
... I see. But it's implied he affected the Void since it's a confirmed realm he did visit in the very beginning of his journey as a Magician , plus they outright stated he affected all realms , so the Void should be included in it (Plus the nature of the Void is that it was stated in Books of Magic that it predates Creation , and the Angels Michael, Lucifer, and Raphael being mentioned to have existed before it heavily hints at it being the 1-A Void , not just some random Void they used for illustration )

Thank you for agreeing (somewhat?) with High 1-B at least. I'm glad one thing is finished . Though I would like to continue debating for 1-A Tim if you don't mind. I do remember something about a Angel closing access to the Void was considered to be a 1-A feat [Then Lucifer did it beforehand, then Elaine and multiple other Angels did it, which was again counted as a 1-A feat] that was going to be scaled to the Angels... I believe you and Matthew Schroeder mentioned it before . Timothy in retrospect did the exact same thing, but with all other realms including the Void, and stated he could re-do the feat when he was at his weakest but didn't do it because his "Other" would just re-do it again, plus he stated it would take more power than "closing/opening/affecting all realms" to even be able .to even alarm his Other.

Also I hope you are okay now.... Now I feel bad for bothering you constantly about something as simple as this on your Message Wall.
 
Closing/Opening Gates to the Void isnt 1-A.

Can you give a scan where it shows Tim affecting the Void?

Just because it said all realms doesnt mean it includes the Void, like there was a storm in Lucifer that stretches across all reams but not to the Void.
 
I see ....

You already proved he didn't.

But the problem is that some realms in Vertigo are blatantly 1-A.

He did defeat someone channeling the full powers of Death of the Endless.... And those sensing the magic stated that he was stronger.... And the implication that the Song of Magic ( Which Timothy is the embodiment of ) is the only thing comparable to the Logos... Though it's best to ignore all that. I'll bring Outerversal back up when I have more concrete stuff.
 
There is one scan that may imply superiority to the Endless for Timothy's high-end Magic though... In one of the shorts he was implied that Tim broke a magic Death couldn't... Which shielded her family from her wrath for a good while. And since Timothy can reverse the same wave that caused that with the smallest portion of their power... It would clearly scale to Tim with his Opener powers, much less as Merlin when he's at his true peak.
 
No, if youre talking about the Mama Day and her family in Books of Magic I doubt that she's more powerful than Death.

Also, theres a side story showing what Death does to magicians who hides from her. She literally does nothing. Theres a magician who also hid from Death. Turns out Death doesnt really give an F about those magician (she just sit outside waiting for someone to open the door and undo the magic, or really anyone who tries to hide fron her or prevent Deat because she knows everything will come to her at the end

We need DIRECT EVIDENCE not implication or speculation or well end with lots of character being scaled to the Endless when they shouldnt be
 
I dont have probpem with Tim being 1-B or 1-A.

I just dont like scaling him from the Endless, who are already difficult to scale even to each other, using vague, indirect or non direct evidence
 
@Sandman31

So do you have any suggestions for how to properly modify his profile?
 
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