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Timeless Voids Standards Issues (Staff only)
- Thread starter Antoniofer
- Start date
- Status
- 9,953
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- Thread starter
- #42
Yep, cuz "special" doesn't really means anything, being "special" could simply means "having indominable happiness" and only that kind of characters are allowed to move there, or the character can be the "chosen one" and only that guy is allowed to move there, etc.
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This entire 'Immeasurable or Infinite' discussion, aside from being eons-old and already sorted in the actual page, is irrelevant to the subject. The thread is about tightening the standards for moving within them being considered a speed feat to begin with, not about the exact level of 'fast' it'd make you.
> And as we already said multiple times, Timeless Voids are heavily case by case.
Following the line of logic presented, there would be literally nothing short of the work directly implying that it's a speed feat that would make a timeless void feat valid, and 99.999999% of the verses that are rated as infinite based on voids do not specify nor imply that it is a speed feat.
'Case-by-case' is a buzzword that dodges the discussion. There would be literally no case where it would be a valid feat. Only Chinese Xianxia/verses designed for VS-Debating would be upgraded based on it.
> There's a difference between moving while time hasn't even existed yet to begin with and simply moving inside a Void that exists outside the flow of time.
No, there's literally no difference other than "this feels more right". Both involve moving in a void where time does not exist, so it's the exact same feat. If this goes through, the Golden Goddesses and other similar "predates time" characters will be getting downgraded.
> And as we already said multiple times, Timeless Voids are heavily case by case.
Following the line of logic presented, there would be literally nothing short of the work directly implying that it's a speed feat that would make a timeless void feat valid, and 99.999999% of the verses that are rated as infinite based on voids do not specify nor imply that it is a speed feat.
'Case-by-case' is a buzzword that dodges the discussion. There would be literally no case where it would be a valid feat. Only Chinese Xianxia/verses designed for VS-Debating would be upgraded based on it.
> There's a difference between moving while time hasn't even existed yet to begin with and simply moving inside a Void that exists outside the flow of time.
No, there's literally no difference other than "this feels more right". Both involve moving in a void where time does not exist, so it's the exact same feat. If this goes through, the Golden Goddesses and other similar "predates time" characters will be getting downgraded.
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I wouldn't mind if Golden Goddesses or other verses or even verses similar verses like Final Fantasy get downgraded, but tone down the passive aggressive attitude would you please.
Actually, the difference is that, time does exist but you're simply outside of time in one where as the other is just time didn't exist to begin with.
Actually, the difference is that, time does exist but you're simply outside of time in one where as the other is just time didn't exist to begin with.
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He wasn't aggressive. Don't be over-sensitive.
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> Actually, the difference is that, time does exist but you're simply outside of time in one where as the other is just time didn't exist to begin with.
If you are traversing a void outside time, that means it is a void that lacks time, where any actions that could be taken would be timeless, much like a void that 'predates' it.
So no, there is absolutely no difference.
If you are traversing a void outside time, that means it is a void that lacks time, where any actions that could be taken would be timeless, much like a void that 'predates' it.
So no, there is absolutely no difference.
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He was being a little bit, it's also unfriendly to blindly accuse people of "Dodging the question" just because of three commonly used word that's always been for every standard. I wasn't being "over-sensitive", I was just trying to keep the thread civil. I'm aware it's far from his worst example, but still.
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Let's be honest, most voids will just act like regular outer space. Characters will still take actions in a cronological order and spend time there, most "place without time" stuff is just nonsense.
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I don't think any voids in fiction would qualify for the 'it needs to be implied to be a speed feat' standard, and the differentiation between 'moving in a void that predates time' and 'moving where time does not exist' is arbitrary at best.
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Yeet it all, then
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Frankly I don't care if the GGs get downgraded or not. Accuracy matters more.
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Yeah, I don't mind the option of yeeting timeless voids as a whole.
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That would be a lot of downgrades if timeless voids qualifying a character for Infinite speed gets removed. Would we then make a similar thread to this one: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3943491 (Regenerationn True-Godly Changes Project)?
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I might be misremembering but i think blazblue has moving in a void as a legit speed featKepekley23 said:
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This doesn't affect anyone with Immeasurable Speed since you can't get a rating or anything like that just because of a timeless void, it would only affect Infinite Speed characters. And if you for some reason have anything like Immeasurable from a timeless void on a profile, that's still wrong already with the current standards.
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I want to ask something.
If someone traveled between 2 dimensions, what would the value of speed be?
If someone traveled between 2 dimensions, what would the value of speed be?
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But those are two space-time universes, so won't that warrant Immeasurable Speed? Since it's stated in this wiki that traveling between or beyond dimensions would warrant Immeasurable Speed.
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- Thread starter
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It has to be done by movement alone and between two timelines, in that case it would be Immeasurable, using special abilities like opening portals and such do not counts.
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But that wasn't dimensional travel. If we said that the character breached a place that existed between dimensions, but not without dimensional travel, as nothing was shown about dimensional travel in that feat, what speed value would that warrant?
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I think it's Immeasurable, since they are not using dimensional portals, and are traveling between 2 different universes in order to reach a place in between them.
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But they are 2 full space-time universes.
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Yes.
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Make a CRT for it then, because this isn't the thread for stuff like that.
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So, would a timeless void feat give a character resistance to time stop? Or just nothing?
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- Thread starter
- #73
No necessary, that is up to the verse.
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I agree with both Akreious and The Causality.
Either declare that you can't get infinite speed feats from being inside any voids or give the dragonabll their infinite speed rating. You can't just keep making the void restrictions harder and harder whenver someone technically slides in.
And if we are trying to be really accurate, infinite speed is moving any distance within 0 time. It's not moving while there is no time. Even within time stops and timeless voids, characters can speak and interact with each other, and if they can speak, they can count, and if they can count, then time is passing.
Time is relative. A person can view a time manipulator as moving instantly through space, but within the frame of the time manipulator, they've just stopped time moved and then restarted time. Outside the void, no time has passed, inside the void, the bad guy has given you powerpoint presentation of what he's going to do when he beats you up.
Either declare that you can't get infinite speed feats from being inside any voids or give the dragonabll their infinite speed rating. You can't just keep making the void restrictions harder and harder whenver someone technically slides in.
And if we are trying to be really accurate, infinite speed is moving any distance within 0 time. It's not moving while there is no time. Even within time stops and timeless voids, characters can speak and interact with each other, and if they can speak, they can count, and if they can count, then time is passing.
Time is relative. A person can view a time manipulator as moving instantly through space, but within the frame of the time manipulator, they've just stopped time moved and then restarted time. Outside the void, no time has passed, inside the void, the bad guy has given you powerpoint presentation of what he's going to do when he beats you up.
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Even within time stops and timeless voids, characters can speak and interact with each other, and if they can speak, they can count, and if they can count, then time is passing.
I disagree here. That's like saying characters aren't FTL if they're moving at FTL speeds and being able to hear each other talk.
I disagree here. That's like saying characters aren't FTL if they're moving at FTL speeds and being able to hear each other talk.
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Mathematically, the whole "Speed = Distance/Time doesn't work because there is no time" argument doesn't even work. Time being 0 (In a Time Stop) is different from Timeless because Timeless means there simply isn't a T, correct? That means, quite literally, Speed = Distance. Any distance. Still infinite speed because you can set Distance to infinity and Speed would equal it. It's just Time Stop Resistance doesn't let you do this because Time Stop is where T = 0, not the absence of T.
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the time in speed=distance/time is simply how many seconds it takes for a person to move from point A and point B.
During a time stop, the amount of seconds it takes from someone to go from point A to point B is zero, hence infinite speed. But that's only in reference to what is frozen in time. To those who aren't frozen in time, it takes a few moments to get from point A to point B in stopped time, so they don't experience infinite speed while in stopped time.
True infinite speed will be traveling from A to B in zero seconds in any frame of reference: regular time, during a time stop, inside a timeless void, etc.
During a time stop, the amount of seconds it takes from someone to go from point A to point B is zero, hence infinite speed. But that's only in reference to what is frozen in time. To those who aren't frozen in time, it takes a few moments to get from point A to point B in stopped time, so they don't experience infinite speed while in stopped time.
True infinite speed will be traveling from A to B in zero seconds in any frame of reference: regular time, during a time stop, inside a timeless void, etc.
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Infinite speed is for characters who can travel infinite distances within a finite amount of time, or have a reaction time of 0 since they react to all things instantaneously. And all finite speed objects are perceived as completely motionless for those with Infinite speed. Time stop users still technically perceive time as flowing, it's just surrounding are frozen.
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