Tiering system - 1-A and High 1-A layers

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

So...according to tiering system FAQ...
Q: Is transcending an 1-A character to the same degree they transcend normal humans High 1-A?
A: No. Due to making use of a much larger measuring stick in comparison to lower tiers (Power sets of infinite sets, as opposed to adding individual dimensions), the gap between any two levels in 1-A actually exceeds the entire system below them, and is equivalent to repeating the whole process which led to the previous level on a much higher scale. Thus, most statements that make use of such comparisons would only amount to one further level into the tier, unless some additional context showing it to be higher is present.
As in, to get even one layer higher into 1-A, a character has to transcend another 1-A character just as much as they transcend ,say, a human. and the difference between a higher and lower dimension is reality and fiction, right?

In other words, why do we think characters who transcend Baseline 1-A realms and see it as fiction should be a higher layer of 1-A? Why are umineko characters 1-A+ if they just see baseline 1-A world as fiction?

 

[manu_zarri]

In other words, why do we think characters who transcend Baseline 1-A realms and see it as fiction should be a higher layer of 1-A?

because 1-A is maded of layers, they can be finite (above baseline 1-A) or infinite (1-A+). transcending a 1-A realm means you are logically superior, and that should be far above that 1-A realm. obviously, transcending only a 1-A realm is not 1-A +, for 1-A + you would have to destroy a hierarchy, where each realm transcends the lesser one.

apparently umineko have "infinitely-layered realities" which characthers scales to it? i guess?

 

[Hasty12345]

Why are umineko characters 1-A+ if they just see baseline 1-A world as fiction?

the only 1-A+ characters I can think of are Lambda and Bern, and they're 1-A+ due to the depths of oblivion (pr the sea of fragments, one of them) being 1-A + in size

 

[Teezar]

the only 1-A+ characters I can think of are Lambda and Bern, and they're 1-A+ due to the depths of oblivion (pr the sea of fragments, one of them) being 1-A + in size

Can you differentiate a 1-A realm and 1-A+ realm to me please.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Can you differentiate a 1-A realm and 1-A+ realm to me please.

a 1-A realm is a realm that is beyond and unbound by an infinitely layered hierarchy (usually dimensions), and a 1-A+ realm is realm that is made by a infinite layered 1-A hierarchy being stacked

 

[Teezar]

Can I see scans of a verse with infinite 1-A realms?

 

[Hasty12345]

Can I see scans of a verse with infinite 1-A realms?

SCP apparently does

 

[Teezar]

Scans let me see please. But is it the only verse shown with such?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Can I see scans of a verse with infinite 1-A realms?

in the cosmology blog of verses like Umineko

 

[Bernkastelll]

Scans let me see please. But is it the only verse shown with such?

Nah, all verses with 1-A+, High 1-A or tier 0 characters have it

 

[Hasty12345]

Scans let me see please. But is it the only verse shown with such?

just go on their profiles

 

[Teezar]

Ok

 

[manu_zarri]

Can you differentiate a 1-A realm and 1-A+ realm to me please.

in simple terms
1-A (baseline) realm is a plane/dimension which is above uncontable infinite plane/dimensions
everything above it which isn't infinite layer is 1-A but above baseline
1-A+ is maded of those planes/dimensions on a infinite amount, which one above the others.
or infinitely trascendental compared to 1-A

 

[Teezar]

I don't still understand but nvm

 

[First_Witch]

Can you differentiate a 1-A realm and 1-A+ realm to me please.

Its analogous to the difference between low 2-c and High 1-B, just in larger scale. 1-A Characters posses x-amount of layers that trancend the previous one, x being a finite amount. 1-A+ is x being infinite

 

[Planck69]

I don't still understand but nvm

If 1-A is 10-B then 1-A+ is High 1-B.

 

[First_Witch]

In other words, why do we think characters who transcend Baseline 1-A realms and see it as fiction should be a higher layer of 1-A? Why are umineko characters 1-A+ if they just see baseline 1-A world as fiction?

That is wrong though. The reasoning for Voyagers is that Bern and Lambda are abstraction existing throughout the Realm of Witches and higher, them being 1-A+ hierachies.

 

[Teezar]

If 1-A is 10-B then 1-A+ is High 1-B.

OMG,I see why umineko are overpowered.

 

[Teezar]

But what makes a realm 1-A?

 

[First_Witch]

Triviasize a High 1-B hierachy to the point that it is nothing but Fiction to you. For Hierachys below High 1-B, proof that you would still view it as fiction even if it could and would, theoreticaly become High 1-B

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

But what makes a realm 1-A?

Trivialize infinite dimension to something Infinitesimall like the First Gate in the Cthulhu Mythos

"Then the waves increased in strength, and sought to improve his understanding, reconciling him to the multiform entity of which his present fragment was an infinitesimal part. They told him that every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension—as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity. The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where ’Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones. Though men hail it as reality and brand thoughts of its many-dimensioned original as unreality, it is in truth the very opposite. That which we call substance and reality is shadow and illusion, and that which we call shadow and illusion is substance and reality."

You can see that the Infinite dimensional world is mere nothing but a"Small Wholeness"of the first Gate, that also qualify for it.

 

[manu_zarri]

But what makes a realm 1-A?

trascends Low 1-A. in reality it is not quite like that, but ok

 

[Planck69]

But what makes a realm 1-A?

Transcending the very structure onto which higher dimensions, layers and planes are embedded, such that no additions to said hierarchy will ever reach you.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Transcending the very structure onto which higher dimensions, layers and planes are embedded, such that no additions to said hierarchy will ever reach you.

So...according to tiering system FAQ...
Q: Is transcending an 1-A character to the same degree they transcend normal humans High 1-A?
A: No. Due to making use of a much larger measuring stick in comparison to lower tiers (Power sets of infinite sets, as opposed to adding individual dimensions), the gap between any two levels in 1-A actually exceeds the entire system below them, and is equivalent to repeating the whole process which led to the previous level on a much higher scale. Thus, most statements that make use of such comparisons would only amount to one further level into the tier, unless some additional context showing it to be higher is present.
As in, to get even one layer higher into 1-A, a character has to transcend another 1-A character just as much as they transcend ,say, a human. and the difference between a higher and lower dimension is reality and fiction, right?

In other words, why do we think characters who transcend Baseline 1-A realms and see it as fiction should be a higher layer of 1-A? Why are umineko characters 1-A+ if they just see baseline 1-A world as fiction?

What do you think?

 

[Planck69]

I mean, they're right. The layers in 1-A have such massive gaps between them that the gap between 11-C and High 1-B just barely cover them.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I mean, they're right. The layers in 1-A have such massive gaps between them that the gap between 11-C and High 1-B just barely cover them.

But those layers see the lower layer of 1-A as fiction....? That is just the difference between a higher and lower dimension?

 

[Planck69]

But those layers see the lower layer of 1-A as fiction....? That is just the difference between a higher and lower dimension?

At 1-A, not really. Don't overthink it too much, just know seeing a 1-A the way they see a 10-B is just a higher level of 1-A now.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

At 1-A, not really. Don't overthink it too much, just know seeing a 1-A the way they see a 10-B is just a higher level of 1-A now.

So in a nutshell, a layer that sees 1-A as fiction is a higher level of 1-A, but the difference between that layer and 1-A is greater then the difference between 1-A and 10-B. Correct?

 

[Planck69]

So in a nutshell, a layer that sees 1-A as fiction is a higher level of 1-A, but the difference between that layer and 1-A is greater then the difference between 1-A and 10-B. Correct?

Yes.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Yes.

Let's say i have a 1-A layer , and another layer that transcends that 1-A layer. How do i prove that second layer is high 1-A if there arn't any more layers?

 

[Planck69]

Let's say i have a 1-A layer , and another layer that transcends that 1-A layer. How do i prove that second layer is high 1-A if there arn't any more layers?

The second layer has to prove that no matter how many levels of existence you add to the first layer, the second will always be beyond it.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

The second layer has to prove that no matter how many levels of existence you add to the first layer, the second will always be beyond it.

ah thanks. So will a statement that says "no matter how many levels of existence you add to the first layer, the second will always be beyond it." prove high 1-A?

 

[Planck69]

ah thanks. So will a statement that says "no matter how many levels of existence you add to the first layer, the second will always be beyond it." prove high 1-A?

I mean, it would need a bit more but that's a strong supporting statement. Remember that this can also be interpreted as 1-A+ at times.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I mean, it would need a bit more but that's a strong supporting statement. Remember that this can also be interpreted as 1-A+ at times.

Also those levels of existence should see the lower levels as fiction, right.
And for high 1-A i can just say the second layer is inaccessible?

 

[Teezar]

Also those levels of existence should see the lower levels as fiction, right.

Is it compulsory?

And for high 1-A i can just say the second layer is inaccessible?

I don't understand.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Is it compulsory?

I don't understand.

read the tiering system faq

 

[manu_zarri]

perhaps it is better to explain the concept of 1-A and High 1-A in a normal way

ok let's start with the point, im going to assume that people here know what cardinality is, High 1-B is Infinite Dimensions. more specifically we can indicate those infinite dimensions with ω (which is infinite)

ω = 0,1,2,3... and so on to infinite.
but infinite isn't the biggest number, we can still add 1. so ω+1, or ω+2, or ω+3 and so on. It's very important is the concept that we can always add 1, ok so we could even imagine an infinite series of ω, right? but we could still add 1. and just like that we arrive at Aleph-Naught, denoted as ℵ0. ℵ0 is the lowest infinite, but that's not really important, let's just remember that's High 1-B anyways. now being above ℵ0 such uncontable infinite would mean being Low 1-A, because you are now in ℵ1, which the cicle repeat on a larger scale. and after ℵ1 we have ℵ2 which mean it's something higher than it (Low 1-A) meaning it's 1-A, but so we can also find ℵ3, ℵ4... which are above baseline 1-A. and ℵω which should be 1-A+ due to being a infinite hierarchy of these, but we don't stop here. but we didn't finish yet, we have fixed point aka κ or ℵκ which (For what i remember) have all possible extensions of every aleph. meaning it's more than 1-A+, we can see that as all possible extensions of 1-A in simple way. and at the end we have Inaccessible Cardinal, which is superior to everything that i said before, even fixed points, meaning it's High 1-A.

you can find a better explanation here, idk if that answer to your questions guys

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

perhaps it is better to explain the concept of 1-A and High 1-A in a normal way

ok let's start with the point, im going to assume that people here know what cardinality is, High 1-B is Infinite Dimensions. more specifically we can indicate those infinite dimensions with ω (which is infinite)

ω = 0,1,2,3... and so on to infinite.
but infinite isn't the biggest number, we can still add 1. so ω+1, or ω+2, or ω+3 and so on. It's very important is the concept that we can always add 1, ok so we could even imagine an infinite series of ω, right? but we could still add 1. and just like that we arrive at Aleph-Naught, denoted as ℵ0. ℵ0 is the lowest infinite, but that's not really important, let's just remember that's High 1-B anyways. now being above ℵ0 such uncontable infinite would mean being Low 1-A, because you are now in ℵ1, which the cicle repeat on a larger scale. and after ℵ1 we have ℵ2 which mean it's something higher than it (Low 1-A) meaning it's 1-A, but so we can also find ℵ3, ℵ4... which are above baseline 1-A. and ℵω which should be 1-A+ due to being a infinite hierarchy of these, but we don't stop here. but we didn't finish yet, we have fixed point aka κ or ℵκ which (For what i remember) have all possible extensions of every aleph. meaning it's more than 1-A+, we can see that as all possible extensions of 1-A in simple way. and at the end we have Inaccessible Cardinal, which is superior to everything that i said before, even fixed points, meaning it's High 1-A.

you can find a better explanation here, idk if that answer to your questions guys

so if a reality has a mahlo cardinal number of layers...?

 

[manu_zarri]

so if a reality has a mahlo cardinal number of layers...?

to vague context, we use the cardinals to make us understand the difference, but they are not the cardinals themselves to be 1-A and up (expect for inaccessible and fixed point)

so unless you meant cardinals but actually that reality was above various infinite superiors, it would be 1-A? ig?

there is more context for that or?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

to vague context, we use the cardinals to make us understand the difference, but they are not the cardinals themselves to be 1-A and up (expect for inaccessible and fixed point)

so unless you meant cardinals but actually that reality was above various infinite superiors, it would be 1-A? ig?

there is more context for that or?

er no. Just a reality that had a mahlo cardinal number of layers and each layer transcended the last.