Tier 1 - Composite Hierarchies and Dimensions

[Nakaos]

I'm a bit confused about the fact that reality-fiction composite hierarchies (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Composite_Hierarchies) and physical dimensions are merged into the same tiers. I understand that both concept are often used the same way in fictions, and it may be redundant to differentiate them in the tiering system, but fundamentally they are different.


For example, let's say there is a character who can destroy/create/modify at will a ∞-dimensions (geometrical) space which contains ∞ universes of any finite numbers of dimensions each. Though this space is only contained in only one layer of reality I suppose such a character would be High 1-B. If that's the case, then he have an higher rank than an high layer beings, such as the "low tiers" from umineko, when they should actually see him as a mere fiction.


I don't know if the question have already been treated, sorry if that's the case. Still I'm a bit curious, maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

For example, let's say there is a character who can destroy/create/modify at will a ∞-dimensions (geometrical) space which contains ∞ universes of any finite numbers of dimensions each. Though this space is only contained in only one layer of reality I suppose such a character would be High 1-B. If that's the case, then he have an higher rank than an high layer beings, such as the "low tiers" from umineko, when they should actually see him as a mere fiction.

Do you mean Voyagers? Because no they wouldn't. Their pieces/shadows for that layer would be degrees of infinity lesser than said being.

If you mean the Voyagers' true selves, they are shapeless and formless, along with being beyond the endless hierarchy of dimensions, so it's not exactly contradictory.

If you mean the infinite dimensional being is somehow contained in a lower layer to low-tier pieces in Umineko, he isn't, because he doesn't exist, so there's not a problem, there.

Finally, if you mean something like, "How would characters of higher layers compare if each layer contained infinite dimensions", they'd still just be High 1-B. They'd just have "more than infinity dimensions", which is still infinite by its nature. You must transcend that entirely to break into 1-A.

 

[Nakaos]

The last point is interesting, but the third one (the infinite dimensional being is somehow contained in a lower layer to low-tier pieces in Umineko) is the closest. The answer actually surprised me so I've re-read a bit the When They Cry cosmoslogy.

I actually didn't know the dimensions and the layers were associated, I thought that each fragments could contain a non-finite number of dimensions.Though, but I still think it's weird to mix both concept.

Maybe I'm overthinking, but is it okay to consider a geometrical dimension the same as a realm/reality layer? The first one is the M-theory and the second one is the simulation hypothesis. To me, it feels like the gap between 2 dimensions is far smaller than the gap between 2 reality layers.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's not so much that things such as layers are directly associated with dimensions. More so that they both run on ideas of higher layers of infinity. For instance, 2-D to 3-D, 3-D to 4-D, etc. The same applies to things like layers. We go by what each layer is shown to contain (which in Umineko's case is at least several per layer, iirc. This means the difference between dimensions and layers is greater, but not an inherently incompatible concept.

I mean, there could be layers containing infinite dimensions, but it wouldn't necessarily change how they work. For instance, say a layer contains infinite spatial dimensions. There is then another layer above it that also contains infinite spatial dimensions. The higher layer is still infinite-dimensional, but to a higher degree. Its the same as having a being that embodies "infinity plus one" dimensions. It is still an infinite dimensional being, but one greater than an infinite dimensional being of the level below it.

 

[Nakaos]

I see, so basically any form of composite hierarchy can be see as an organisation of dimension. So it's silly to ask if both concept are compatible since they are fondamentaly the same, it's just the form who change (one is organised and one is "raw").

Then for the reality-fiction border between layers, I suppose that even if the statement of "any (n+1)-dimensions being can see any -dimension being as a fiction" may be more or less true depending on the verse, it can never be considered as "truly false", even on Flatland verse. So no problem here I guess.

As an extension, if the reality-fiction concept is okay, then the representation of a lower layer from a higher layer perspective doesn't matter. The fact that the lower layer may be a raw geometrical dimension (Flatland), a book (Yami to Boushi), a computer simulation (Star Ocean 3), or a dream (Azathoth? this guy is way too high to be a good example there) is irrelevant, since it doesn't break the M-theory, at least on the conceptual level. It seems a bit tricky, but I suppose that's acceptable since it's not false. Plus it allows the tiering system to be compatible with almost all verses.

So my mistake was to considere reality layers and dimensions as different concepts because of their forms/representations. Now I think about it, that was quite obvious. Still not 100% sure that all the statements above are correct, but thank for the insight.